I tried emailing Works components twice and no response. If I click through to the webpage to order a 32, it says out of stock but it looks like I can still add to basket and checkout. Advice?
The Wolftooth doesn't have an integrated bash.
They're probably referring to [url= http://www.wolftoothcycling.com/products/bash-ring-for-sram-direct-mount ]this.[/url]
Yes I was refering to that but:
a) It's a bespoke WolfTooth fitment and locks you into an indy outfit based in the USA.
b) It's $47 for something that may break
I would pay £35 for the works one in the UK right now, or as said above, RaceFace have now appeared on Wiggle available end of June @ £40. the RaceFace ones look like they have a nice engraved logo on them.
Problem with RaceFace is that it may not work properly. Please don't jump on me as i do absoluteBlack rings and am their competition, but to be perfectly honest thick-thin profile does NOT solve the problem. It's a tooth profile that plays major role in that. They are wider, more square and a tiny bit taller. Tolerances are also smaller that means chain will almost not move back-forth on the chainring when fiddling with fingers.
If you look now at RF and E13 offerings they only added thick tooths to the already existing design. That means it will not work like it should in my opinion as i already done that long time ago and know the outcome. Thus completely different tooth profile on my side.
time will tell. Please note that on their site is no word that chainkeeper is not necessary, only this: "Now with performance enhancing chain retention technology" which means it retain bit better which is true some way, but will it allow you to drop the chainkeeper off of your bike?:)
this is my personal opinion and i am not trying to convince anyone. Just show you a point of view of someone who done some work in that topic.
forgot about other side of the story.
Thick tooths do wear out quite quickly - especially during weather like we have today in UK:) When chainring is new there has to be already small play between plates and thick tooth. But after a month in the mud this play is around 0.1mm bigger. That means thick tooth does not hold chain at all at this point as there is a fair distance from both sides to the chain plates. So the only thing which help to keep things still on place is that square-ish tooth profile.
But that will not last forever as well. Sram admits that also.
So unless you want to replace your chainring every few months you'll still need a chainguide. Oh well.
So unless you want to replace your chainring every few months you'll still need a chainguide. Oh well.
What does this mean? It reads to me that you are saying that there is some kind of correlation between wear rate and requriing a chain guide. Please explain.
I think that Tehan, you as a manufacturer of your own chainring are entitled to your opinion and to talk up your product. To me though, I would think that they are all very similar in performance if they have basically used SRAM XX1 as a guide to how to achieve better chain retention. Otherwise why bring one out at all. We have enough chain rings on the market that are considered "normal" chain rings. It will become obvious as more get out into the wild as to which ones are sub standard if at all.
What does this mean? It reads to me that you are saying that there is some kind of correlation between wear rate and requriing a chain guide. Please explain.
tehan explained it in last post of the previous page. Long time reports from XX1 owners seem to indicate the same thing.
Tehan in own product big up shocker.
Tbh rings don't last forever anyway do they, run them with a top only guide and be happy 🙂
I am sure xx1 users have been on them longer than a month with no issues?
Oh and of course, the key is that the works and Rf rings are as cheap as standard rings, so what is the point in not buying them over a normal ring? Makes no sense!
I can honestly see every ring manufacturer moving to it... Any benefit is a selling point after all?
I still want x9 11spd to happen, then I will be happy!
Tbh rings don't last forever anyway do they, run them with a top only guide and be happy
That's exactly what I'm doing. I didn't mean to sound negative - I was myself dead set on ditching chainguides altogether but I decided to go for a top only guide just to avoid any potential problems once the ring wears down. I now run a Wolftooth spiderless with a Superstar top guide and it works well, even without a clutch mech. Maybe I would have just as much luck with a regular SS chainring (bling ring in my case), but there's not much in it price wise so why not.
I'd probably give it a go without a guide if I was still on a hardtail, considering that I ran my Soul with a regular SS chainring and only very rarely dropped the chain (clutch mech essential in that case).
Ok so once again.
IF chainring does not have a special tooth shape(profile) it will not work good without chainguide (even if it has thick-thin profile). So RF or E13 will require something to hold the chain on top. As i said time will tell when people start using that. I went that way on the beginning of my development and i know what's the score. Big companies add thick tooths as everyone expect that to happen. But unfortunately it looks like afterthought as tooth profile is not changing - that is really critical to that system.
XX1 rings- as someone already said long term tests already show that chainrings don't hold chain as when new after XXX miles. This is normal. There is no miracles as if chainring wears out the tolerances are bigger.
What distinguish XX1 or my rings from others is the tooth profile- this does not wear out as quick as thick tooths. So it means it will hold chain much longer than other chainrings. Simple as that.
this is a video of my ring to let you know how good they are:
Rider - Marek Konwa. Silver MTB World Champion, National MTB Champion, CX National Champion and so on. It's his personal video, so not moded by me etc.
First ride today on my works componants ring, around the roughest trails tunnel hill has to offer. 😀
I deliberately ran it down the rougher stuff in a higher gear, with the pro_pedal on, throwing the bike about a bit, and the chain didn't budge.
Took half a lb of weight off losing the chain device, less noise, and a little less drag. At 35 quid, I can't fault it.
I'd still like the stupid low gears mrtee has though.... 😀
This is to show you how good retention this chainring has. It's all about the tooth shape which can keep the chain in place. Only 5 links is enough to hold more than 2 pounds (in fact you can hang much more. Regular chainrings require at least double that.
Try to do it with yours and see result.
This is not glued, tied or anything else. Chain just meshes perfectly with chainring and will not come off that way.
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Just back from a proper ride using the Wolftooth chainring (30T) not a single dropped chain. Some pretty bumpy, rocky stuff, finishing with a downhill track. (Admittedly I minced down that, but I'm on a hardtail).
No. chain devices or owt.
Tehan, do you have 32T black SRAM spiderless rings in stock now?
Can you stop spamming the forum now Tehan!
We get that yours is the best and everyone else's product you've not tried is rubbish, but I'm interested in first hand opinions of all the different options, not bloody adverts of yours!
i have never said that someone else's is rubbish. If you got such impression then i am really sorry njee20. I will not post more about it unless someone asks me. Is that ok with you? If you want to test it yourself email me.
MrGFisher- Wednesday in as i just posted last one on sat.
Tehan, the problem i cant get out of my head with your ring is chainsuck. When the ring is a little worn wont the taller teeth just hold the chain? How does it fare in gritty mud?
Tehan - do you intend to make middleburn x-type UNO rings?
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also, does it keep that performance when worn? If it's all about the clever tooth profile does that hold up over time?
Might need to give one a crack next time I need a ring to compare.
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also, does it keep that performance when worn? If it's all about the clever tooth profile does that hold up over time?
He does say on website works better worn than xx1 style, id just like to know what exactly it is that helps, dont doubt just curious and id want a little more explanation before spending that amount of cash.
do you intend to make middleburn x-type UNO rings?
I asked matthew at middleburn the same question last week, they're in development at the moment and he said to keep an eye on facebook for details.
hi guys, i start being more busy than i thought so not much time to read that all, all the time. If i miss something important just write me an emial and i will answer so someone can writie it here is necessary.
But to answer few questions.
There is no chainsuck. Believe me or not but chain goes on that chainring as on any other one (almost) - it's almost ideally calculated so it fits like a glove on hand if you know what i mean. So it meshes like it really should. On some new chains(kmc and xx1 as i know for now) i found that sometimes there is a need of 20miles "bedding in time". That means chainring is a touch more louder than normal. But after that it's all good and silent like on a regular chainring.
Mud - tooths does not wear out down. I mean recesses between tooths almost does not deepen in time. What wears out most is the right hand side of each tooth profile if you look at the crank from the front. But what really helps to keep chain from coming off is the right hand side of that tooth. I can't write more:)
What you have to understand is that thick-thin profile will wear out in mud quickly (in dry a lot longer) and will not hold the chain good anymore (my tester is sponsored by Sram as well and he already has to use chainkeeper on World cup races with XX1 ring after two months in mixed conditions - check marek konwa facebook page). Once that is worn(thinner) and you have regular tooth profile like RF there is absolutely nothing which helps to keep the chain on.
Honestly - no one will be able to make chainring which will keep chain forever. It is not possible and customers need to know that. XX1 dies in two months in hands of a pro rider in any possible condition (UK mud included). Mine will hold same distance from tests we have made, but you get it chaper. I have few amatour testers as well doing bike marathons and they are still happy after 4.5 months with chain retention.
What really matter in era of such chainrings is the question "how long" not "if". So designing it as best as it could be done let you to use it a bit longer.
If you guys doing really big stuff, the the longer you use the chainring (mine or xx1 or other) you will eventually drop the chain. Next year this time it will be obvious when there will be enough people using it.
uff. thanks.
No middleburn x-type UNO rings - sorry. The offset is huge as far as i remember so i would have to use really thick sheets to mill that. I think they use a press to make a dish and that is far too much complications for me to make one ring.
hope you understand.
What about 88mm XTR M985 ones? As much as I don't think you need to bash your competition and post your adverts, I do want to try one 🙂
Having thought about this, I understand the rings with eventually start dropping chains when they wear. The question is how I would know when that point is. I don't mind having to replace it every so often, the worry is not knowing when and finding it out on the trail with a dropped chain. I had a big crash because of a dropped chain so probably going to stick with a top guide and normal ring unless I get a clear answer for this.
I agree, the person above who tested and got 2 months out of an XX1 ring before it had worn to a point where it was not holding the chain... 2 months of what? Riding daily? Once a week?
2 months of a pro xc racer, is about 3 years for me. 😀
My XX rings lasted no time at all, so assuming the XX1 ones are the same material I'd not place that much faith in the longevity of the OEM XX1 ones!
Dave of STW has been running 1x10 with a clutch and "normal" chainring for quite a while, with I understand no dropping problems.
Having one of these chainrings is only going to improve on that.
I thought the idea of the different chain thicknesses was to reduce the chain swinging side to side and jumping off.
Oh, and I used my Works + SLX clutch all weekend on the Long Mynd and Shropshire Hills with no chain guide on. Worked excellently! The the anodising is already starting to wear off - interestingly, more on the thinner teeth. I am hoping to not find out "when"...
Marek Konwa- my tester is riding approx 4-5h a day on 2-3 bikes. So that bike with xx1 is used approx half that time in all conditions (dry, mud, rain etc). That bike is used on all the races as well. That's why i pointed out it is a PRO rider as he won silver on XC World Cup in 2011.
I also pointed that my other "regular guy" testers use it more "normal" with marathons from time to time and they still are really happy after 4.5 months.
So it is very individual thing when you will wear the rings to the point it will start dropping the chain. As few said with their riding it may take 2 years:) Someone else will wear the ring within 6 months - it's individual. Good indication is how often you have to change your cassette and if you change your chain often (ie, ride with 3 chains, and on each only 200 miles- rotation) or just use one for the season and kill whole drivetrain.
For guys like us (working daily) do lunch time rides and go out on weekends it will take a year at least i guess with a good tooth profile and hard material of the chainring. You will have to change your chain anyway eventually and then buy new chainring like everyone does.
But some of us will use it a lot more and in a lot worse conditions. And i was referring to those to point out that it is possible to wear it out.
Also please note that even when you decide to run a guide, such chainring still keeps the chain "100" times better then regular one, helping you keep things tight. (that 100 is made up as you cant really measure it but give an idea)
hope that clarifies more.
Tehan - when are you shipping the Shimano 104 BCD ones as i have one on order ?
i assume you purchased them on R2. I will ship to them in around 17 days. I can't make it quicker - sorry. Original promise is Mid Jun and i am trying to hit that date. They will surely be this month.
what about a fiver off for a pre-order like works components did
😉
I would really want (but i can't:) i think it's cheap enough anyway and my price will be really competitive with RF. Their price is said to be around 55-59$ so in Europe it will be close to 45-50gbp.
Why hasn't anyone released a 110bcd for cyclcross yet? I've love a 1x10 with clutch mech for cross
I have just completed the coast to coast with a 32XX1 with an XTR drivetrain with clutch mech and 11-36 XX cassette. It worked like a dream, no dropped chain or any issues.
So right now I am running a 11-36 cassette with 24/36 rings with a bash on a set of Raceface Sixc cranks, the rear mech is a medium cage XTR clutch jobbie.
I am thinking about going to a General Lee cassette adaptor and a 32 tooth AbsoluteBlack chainring or a 30 tooth Works chainring.
Will my beloved XTR mech work with the General Lee and can I still fit a bash up front?
In truth I can live without the bash but it would break my heart to lose the mech...
Thanks in advance... thought I was happy with my set up till I read this thread and it got me thinking.... doh
mbnut - before you go the general lee route, try the 11.36 with a 32T upfront. I think you might surprise yourself.
Mashie I appreciate your belief in my abilities but I am pretty close to the limit of my abilities now... I think a 30 upfront with a General Lee would suit me best. As you say though I have powered up some pretty brutal climbs on a 32/36 when my front mech broke on a road trip but my knees never really forgave me.
I should mention I am on a 29er which gears things up by around 10% and then you have to factor in the fact that I am a 14st 46 year old that loves beer and pizzas.
Mbnut - that's the set up I'm going for on my 29er. 30t Works Component ring, General Lee Shimano adapter and XT or XTR shadow plus mech.
Could get messy if this goes through...
[url= http://www.bike-eu.com/Home/General/2013/5/SRAMs-X-Sync-Technology-Set-to-Open-for-Licensing-1245909W/ ]Clicky[/url]
Mbnut - I've got no experiences of the General Lee kit, but Pink Bike found that the Sram mechs worked better than the Shimano one, so it might be worth bearing that in mind. It does look like a good option though.
I think I'm going to go down the route of a thick / thin ring and ditch my full chain device. Partly because my new Banshee has very dropped chainstays which according to a few guys on MTBR has caused issues with running a full guide. Not only that but my E13 is a bit noisey too. So it would be good to get a top mount only.
Raceface are releasing a 104 30T jobby. They are available on preorder at wiggle.
