[Closed] will the sport survive without the LBS...?

If all the lbs closed down it would be a shame but it won't stop me riding,

That's why it will be one of the last outposts of independant business in the average town.. a local centre for riders with mechanical service is something you'll struggle to supply online.

The LBS will always be there from a servicing/part swapping perspective.

The LBS will always be there from a servicing/part swapping perspective.

LBS won't survive on labour alone.

most people I know don't use them at all and don't seem to be in any way disadvantaged

yes they will... we'll just be paying more per hour.

The sport is bigger than the retailers IMO.
We'll all upskill and own more tools, and probably more spares too.

You do realise that the 'we' you refer to is less than 1% of people who ride offroad don't you.Unless the sense of self importace on here pervades further than just slfin/al/tj.
Newsflash...singletrackworld does'nt represent mtb'ing in this country.

You'll probably see their business model move to one that concentrates on repairs and servicing rather than selling huge numbers of bikes.

LBS won't survive on labour alone

Some already do and do pretty well from it, in London / cities especially - it's the (or should be) the most profitable part of any good LBS, assuming you sell service parts too, not just spannering what's on the bike already. Once a mechanic is trained, they cost a business a similar rate to sales staff. Yet labour rates have a better 'margin' than selling parts alone, if sales and mechanics are equal performers.

Too many LBS's see the workshop as the back-room, it should be a central part of the business.

LBS seem to do ok without customer service.

thing is i'm sick of trying with them - they should sell themselves to me - not the other way round 🙁

some lbs as there called may have agood selection of bikes and kit to pick from however it stops at that if they do not have guys who can give your bike that you spent a lot of money on to service them. as for trail repairs most folk i know ride natural stuff so yes i could survive without lbs .

Lots of bike shops will only have themselves to blame if they go t*ts up.

You don't get face to face service on the web but you don't get surly, uninformed staff and poor choice of parts either.

agree some of the drongos in local shop are just out of school, know sweet fa about anything let alone bikes, try to tell me how i should set my bike up when they arnt even allowed to touch an allen key let alone use one

I think you'll start to see more big names and less independents. The big names also already support racing but normally big "fun" events that appeal to a large number of people.

Most races around my way aren't organised by shops, they are organised by local volunteers. The TLI/NECCL run a huge number of races (with some shop support). Local time trials are run by clubs as well. Mountain bikers aren't as interested in races and events as roadies, there's more interest in "just riding".

I very rarely go into bike shops these days. The service is often poor, the stock limited and more expensive than I can get online. The one I did use for mechanic stuff has now closed the one in Newcastle.

Lots of bike shops will only have themselves to blame if they go t*ts up.

This.

I've tried a few LBS to find a good one and the attitude of the staff in some of them is dire.

I've finally settled on a place that's not so local, it's 35 miles away, but their attitude and service is spot on and their prices aren't too much over internet prices.
If more LBS had decent service like this place, they'd do far better.

As for whether the sport will survive or not, I'm sure it will but lower level racing will probably suffer if the LBS's aren't about to sponsor the events.

My LBS will price match any online prices if i find it cheaper online - good mechanic with experience working for British Cycling who really does know his stuff.

Also recently introduced a VIP scheme to reward loyalty which gives me a further 12.5% off everything instore - even if they have already reduced to a price match.

No Complaints from me

Most lbs's have put me off buying from them due to rubbish customer service, I just can't bear handing my hard earned over to some disinterested individual who looks like they are doing me a favour just to tolerate me long enough to take the cash. This said most folk rely on someone to tell them what to buy and do the spannering, so I think they will be fine. The economic downturn may make the climate more challenging for them as more folk may attempt their own work as household budgets get tighter.

what i find strange is that most bike shops have good mechanics yet front of shop really poor how does that work

Pay peanuts, get monkeys is the reason.

true shame they dont think if they try harder might get a payrise

Instead of Lbs I prefer the repair shops that are all over Edinburgh. Pedals is good as is Bike Works. The thing to do is to buy the parts online and have the repair shop fit them. I would like to buy their parts but I find the parts are full price and that they cant compete with crc etc for offers. I have bought a few parts though if the price difference isnt too much. I do like i cycles in Innerleithen as well due to the fact they do so much to support the sport. I also like bike station as well due to the decent principals they run on.

Riding bikes is a sport?

There are loads of LBS in Cambridge, they sell / hire town bikes and do basic servicing / puncture repairs. On-line retails don't compete with them for that part of the market.

They'd better survive. My Bentley needs new tyres.

What's a local bike shop?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys is the reason

but the more online prices are held as a priority, the more this happens.. and the less an LBS can afford to invest in sponsorship, races or events. Do we need that? Maybe we all (on here) don't, but if cycling is to be valued in the community, maybe we all do.

I know an LBS who's local investment in the sport was simply taking (often younger or newbie) riders to Wales or the FoD for a day's riding to fire their enthusiasm - whether they spent much or not. Liability insurance / no-win-no-fee worries etc made that hard to continue - a real shame as that's the kind of thing an LBS is great for, if they're an LBS with any genuine love of the sport.

You'll probably see their business model move to one that concentrates on repairs and servicing rather than selling huge numbers of bikes.

This.

I see bike shops going the way of car franchises.. ie. heavily integrated and supported brand concept stores, with the LBS becoming more of your local garage. Those that survive with anything like good sales business will be the specialists, or the big chains.

agree some of the drongos in local shop are just out of school, know sweet fa about anything let alone bikes

there is a kid at bikelab in poole who can't be much more than 15/16 last time i went in there - i was asking about spd shoes - he apologised that he didn't know much about spds - he rides bmx - and said he would ask some one else to help me - he did this and then asked if he could help me with anything else mean time. so refreshing.

This is called competence. However lots of [s]bike[/s] shop staff seem to think that they'd be better off to blag you. 🙄

true shame they dont think if they try harder might get a payrise

yeah right, with the attitude that it has to be in stock and priced cheaper than CRC/Merlin/Wiggle/Rose,

How can you pay more when you are expected to spend all your money holding stock, and selling bikes off cheap at the end of the year, and selling that stock at rock bottom prices.

There are things i would buy from the internet and things i would get from a shop, if i am going to need to talk to someone if it goes wrong then shop it is, ie bikes, or tools are going to be expensive, i am not buying a headset press or reaming/facing tools, but if i am just going to accept things break such as chains then i internet it.

most people I know don't use them at all and don't seem to be in any way disadvantaged

That's me! My local is crap. I don't drive so can't take advantage of those further a field either. 😯

 

The thing to do is to buy the parts online and have the repair shop fit them.

That's probably the worst thing you can do. It shows complete contempt for the retailer, so don't be surprised if you get a poor service from them. Do you do the same with other products, like buying your car tyres online and getting Kwik Fit to fit them?!?

Why not just find a shop with decent staff, competitive pricing and a good product range?

there is a kid at bikelab in poole who ...

Having commented on the 'pay peanuts' line - this comment about BikeLab is what usually happens in a shop that's well managed, as BikeLab is. I don't know how the pay varies between one shop and another but it's retail, it won't be a lot relative to some other jobs.
I guess most of it comes down to how well motivated, trained and managed the staff are rather than simply the pay - in the bike industry pay isn't what tends to motivate people the most. It's actually one of the main positives in the trade; anyone coming into it for the £ alone often moves on, people with an interest in the product / scene stay. Some do make a lot, but not many.

The cornerstone of any surviving LBS is the cycle commuter I reckon.
Not the owner of a £3k dandy horse looking to try out a £120 set of shoes who then pisses off to see what Google can do about the price tag...

Even for commuters service and a smile will be as key as reasonable prices to getting regular custom, and cycle commuting should be on the increase given petrol prices (at least in certain areas), if anything this could be a "good" time to be running an LBS*...

*Obviously I don't run one...

there is a kid at bikelab in poole

Not anymore there isn't it's closed down!

I have found a really good bike shop near to where i work, he's a mountain biker and has some really nice stuff in the shop... I don't mind buying from them and have possibly paid a little more than I could have online. I think it's important to support a small business and build a relationship with someone who could really help you out when your pride and joy is behaving strangely... it's that or Halfords!

Do you do the same with other products, like buying your car tyres online and getting Kwik Fit to fit them?!?

Only the clinically mental would trust Kwik fit with their car...

Do you do the same with other products, like buying your car tyres online and getting Kwik Fit to fit them?!?

not particularly Kwik Fit but companies like blackcircles do exactly that, you buy them online and they ship them to a local garage for fitting

Personally I prefer to use the LBS for most things, I do occasionally buy from the web, but much prefer to use the LBS, whose service I find excellent. As it's very local to me it's no trouble to call there most weekends even if it's only for a chat.
I prefer to have the bike maintained by them as I don't think the labour charges are excessive and I don't generally enjoy working on the bike, I'd rather be riding it.
Having bought my last couple of bikes from them, I can rely on them to help out if I'm having problems with the bike, often at short notice.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you lot aren't exactly ideal LBS customers 😉

It's like computers - like quite a few people, I know a good deal about computers - I've got no problem ordering a new computer online to my spec, then sorting out installing the OS and drivers myself. But PC World, Dixons and John Lewis are still doing a roaring trade in laptops.

Most people aren't all that knowledgeable about more than one or two things, and are happy to pay some money to leave the technical stuff to others. That's where the good LBS comes in.

juan - Member

LBS won't survive on labour alone.

One of mine is almost exclusively a repair/service place, they sell some basics but that's not what anyone goes there for, and it's the sort of thing you'd still buy even if you know you can get it for a pound less online. They seem to do OK.

"You do realise that the 'we' you refer to is less than 1% of people who ride offroad don't you"

Exactly. So many people on here are starting to get the idea that a large percentage of mountain bike riders in this country are buying parts and tools online and have stopped using their LBS. Like the computer stuff above.. I could ask around and research what to buy online but i would rather just go in to pc world or wherever and buy one without the hassle.

Maybe I'm spoilt? We have several good local bike shops in the area. All offering a good range and good pricing. Most I know buy from the shops and also the web depending on what's available and any on line sales!

I don't know many LBS that do alot for the sport, apart from sponsoring races. And supporting younger riders?? Don't know any shops that do that..

I think there will always be market for bike servicing and repairs.

We have co-held several trail days this year, and support a childrens camp / group that offers coaching to kids.

If we lost LBS's, I don't think it would make much difference.

People mostly buy parts online. 99% of the time you get bikes cheaper online too.

Servicing is stupidly easy, even forks/shocks. If you can't service your bike yourself you need to get learning, save yourself some cash!

I suppose one thing is, you wouldn't have shop race teams. People have to start somewhere, without them, what would happen?!

LBS=SHITE

We are not the target or typical customer for most LBS. Edinburgh has several bike shops all with slightly different niches and seem to be doing fine. Good shops mainly as well.

I still find this whole idea of paying someone to service a bike totally weird, Its a bike not a BMW.

Did you guys have your bike in for a a 1000miles service when you were a kid ?

I really fear for the country these days, can no one do anything for themselves. When I was a kid if your bike broke you fixed it. If you could not fix it you asked your dad and he helped you fix it.

Are we really a country of morons !!

[i]Are we really a country of morons !! [/i]

Well, statistically nearly half of all the people you'll meet are of below average intelligence...

And The Sun is the best selling newspaper.

I still find this whole idea of paying someone to service a bike totally weird, Its a bike not a BMW.

Did you guys have your bike in for a a 1000miles service when you were a kid ?

I really fear for the country these days, can no one do anything for themselves. When I was a kid if your bike broke you fixed it. If you could not fix it you asked your dad and he helped you fix it.

I can't ask my dad to fix it.

If for example in my youth i buckled a wheel, my dad bought me a new wheel. We never went out and fixed that one. However now our wheelsets are £500, well you'd rather fix it... doesn't mean you know how.

Also... my bike had NO gears... none at all.. therefore very easy to index.. 🙂

Hydraulic brakes were not even dreamed of..

So moving on to today, i'm happy to bleed my brakes, index my gears etc, but certain things like fork internals, BBfacing and even headsets are a little alien to me. I'd expect in the circumstances of necessity i would manage... but some things i like to take to someone who knows a bit more than me.

I think that theres quite a few things as well that are so cheap for a repair shop to do its not worth doing yourself - especially if you need to buy tools. I recently had a new bb installed and it was only 21quid. Fitting a neww chainset 12quid and a new rearr mech 6quid. The problem is that when its so cheap you dont really feel motivated. To learn. Time comes into it as well - I dont have any! I also loike having my bike professionally looked after. Its not down to being moronic.

I can't believe its quicker to take a bike to a shop to get a BB changed, than it is to do it yourself. It should only take 10 minutes. Must take longer to take it to the shop ?

I can't believe its quicker to take a bike to a shop to get a BB changed, than it is to do it yourself. It should only take 10 minutes. Must take longer to take it to the shop ?

However there are many variations, spacers, setups etc. so the first time isn't necessarily as easy as the on-going times. You may still need the teaching for the first time... where do you get that from ?

Also add into the equation, if you **** it up, your bike is off the trails/road.... . if the LBS **** it up, they'll sort it.

Also add into the equation, if you * it up, your bike is off the trails/road.... . if the LBS * it up, they'll sort it.

Really you don't think they might just tell you it was like it before ?

I think knowing how things work is a good idea just in case things break when you are out and about. It can be the difference between being able to ride and not. If you can't change a broken mech then what are you going to do if you break a mech hanger 2hrs from your car one day.

My LBS of choice stocks stuff I wouldn't buy, very run of the mill stuff, definitely aimed at commuters. The reason I go there is for the mechanic. He's brilliant.

Speaking to the owner, he survives pretty much totally on C2W schemes.

Really you don't think they might just tell you it was like it before ?

I think knowing how things work is a good idea just in case things break when you are out and about. It can be the difference between being able to ride and not. If you can't change a broken mech then what are you going to do if you break a mech hanger 2hrs from your car one day

I'd bloody hope they wouldn't.

Mech hangers are not quite in the same league as re-facing a BB. ALthough you could argue with the right tools, doing the BB is fairly simple.

Thing is... these tools are expensive and take a long time to purchase all of them

Mech hangers are not quite in the same league as re-facing a BB. ALthough you could argue with the right tools, doing the BB is fairly simple.

Surely though refacing only needs to be done once if moving to an external BB. If bike came with an external BB or replacing another one then its straight forward.

To be honest, although I would rather buy the tool and do it myself if possible, I will concede that I can see why someone might say get a headset fitted by a LBS. But not just replacing worn out components etc or adjusting the gears.

Its funny people seem happy to do DIY on their houses which is probably most people most valuable asset, but they won't work on their bike them selves.

Its funny people seem happy to do DIY on their houses which is probably most people most valuable asset, but they won't work on their bike them selves

Horses for courses mate. I can't do DIY, however i can rebuild a motorbike from component spares and have done more than once.

I can't do car engines but i can change a camchain on a motorbike.

I can't wire a plug, however i'm trusted with over 1000 Microsoft servers 🙂

Im not happy doing diy either. Hate it.

Horses for courses mate. I can't do DIY, however i can rebuild a motorbike from component spares and have done more than once.

I can't do car engines but i can change a camchain on a motorbike.

I can't wire a plug, however i'm trusted with over 1000 Microsoft servers

Thats odd 😀 a bike engine and a car engine are pretty much the same and all the principles are exactly the same. I reckon you would not have too much trouble if you tried 🙂

My guess is you are interested in building a bike engine but not a car engine 🙂

I had built a fair few car engines and I was nervous when I built a turbocharged Hayabusa engine from the ground up. Complete disassembly, measure modify and rebuild. Knew I could do it though as its not rocket science. I loved building that engine so much lighter and less hard work then building a car engine 🙂

I must add I have no formal training in this sort of stuff, but I am always willing to learn. If someone else can learn about something that means I can too !!!

If you mean "the sport" as in competitive racing, then I guess LBS input is minimal.
However if you mean the activity of cycling then, yes, LBS is important - online retailers may satisfy "you lot" (meaning aspirational gear whore bikers) but it's not going to beat seeing something new and shiny hanging up in the window, won't mind your bike while you pop next door to the chippy on the way back from a ride, won't rummage in the parts bin for an odd little ferrule/nut/thingamejig and won't take you round your local trails showing you some "new bits".

I only buy online these days if it's an item my LBS doesn't stock, more than happy to pay a few quid more to keep them in business 🙂

It's so simple to DIY stuff on a bike, I can't be bothered to try to get to a LBS when they're open to drop it off and then the same to pick it up

I also loike having my bike professionally looked after

So do I, hence I DIY

The LBS will survive OK, there may well be less of them and those that remain will probably have to charge more for repairs so those that like to use their LBS will just have to pay more for the pleasure

The bottom bracket is a good example, really. Most cyclists wouldn't touch one. More serious riders, like most people on here, probably own the BB tool for the kind of BB they own, and can handle taking out a cartridge BB and replacing it with another.

But what if the new BB needs a new tool? What if the threads need cutting, or the shell needs facing? What if the BB is stuck, and you've stripped your tool and all the teeth on the BB trying to get it out?

Typical arrogance from stw posters re diy mech/home repairs!!!
My son is suffering from the leftover diy home improver on his new house. Obviously "we" are not all that blessed with the stw massives diy skillz!!

As for bike maint I see the consequences near enough weekly of the dad/granddad/uncle etc repairs 🙄 We are not all blessed with the dexterity and knowledge to fix "stuff"

As for shop staff I agree there are some duffers but on the other-hand the way some people treat same staff makes me shudder. Lots of arrogant sods out there have expectations above their station in life. Seen quite a big increase in this over the summer months and on speaking with others they agree it is on the rise.

As for the comment re go and learn - where?

As for the OPs question "will the sport" survive? YES it will.
I am not interested in cycling as a "sport" only as a recreational pursuit. Recreational cycling will survive but racing will price itself out of the market partly due to cost and partly due to world economics imo

I know many people who have posh expensive bikes - but haven't a clue how to maintain them.

They are the target audience of the LBS.

Also, how many of the STW 'DIY Gods' who fix their bikes, go anywhere near the bonnet of their car? Or do they let the local garage service it for them?

Good LBS's will be fine but averages ones will struggle. Most (none STW) cyclists can't repair their own bike and will continue to use LBSs, they will also continue to use them to buy stuff from as they can offer advice.

I've recently bought a road bike and, as I know very little about them, used an LBS. What I found when looking around was that the variety of quality within these LBS's was huge. Some went out of their way to help and really tried to get a sale, other simply could not be intereted.

I've worked in specialist retail for years (Audio Visual if you must ask) and the LBS is representative of the same sort of niche market. If the LBS goes the local market is effected, if many go the bigger market is effected. Not necessarily the whole market and maybe not immidiatly, but high-end brands with small T/O will be hit hard. Most buyers of (high-end) bikes are probably not hobbyists or even weekly riders, they just want to buy a nice ride. If not able to look-see-touch-try they'll not part with their cash, or if they do it's at a much lower price point. Give these people the opportunity to try ever nicer bikes they'll spend more and support the industry. They probably outnumber the enthusiast 10-1 if not more and keep smaller companies alive.

The [problem] with enthusiasts is that unless sponsered (or loaded) they will find ever more creative ways to save money to feed their addiction and, in today's world, that means bypassing the LBS and going on-line or buying second hand.

I just ordered a very expensive (to me anyway) new bike from my LBS, and got a very good deal i might add. I want to be able to walk in or ring them up for help and feel justified in doing so.

Others here may think anyone incapable of complete bike maintenance is representive of a falling society but bikes today are following the motor industry. They're becoming ever more complicated to service and whilst it's possible to learn the ropes most simply haven't the time or inclination. I for one haven't the time to spend hours tinkering in the garage, modern family life is just too busy to selfishly focus on my hobby all weekend... I need my LBS.

We need to support good shops, bad ones will go away anyway, without the LBS the niche brands we rely on so much will struggle and that can't be good for our sport.

As for bike maint I see the consequences near enough weekly of the dad/granddad/uncle etc repairs We are not all blessed with the dexterity and knowledge to fix "stuff"

Its not about being blessed its about being arsed to try. The reason I can do it is because when I was younger I tried fixing my Raleigh Chopper when it went wrong. I changed my own punctures and we built up bikes from old frames etc. So now I have a nicer bike I am not afraid to do what are simple jobs on it.

As for the comment re go and learn - where?

Lots of places, friends, internet or Park big blue book of bicycle maintenance. There are plenty of places if you look.

Its about confidence and we have a generation of people who have no confidence in themselves to do the real stuff in life. We have a culture of we must be officially trained or have a qualification to be competent at something.

bazzer - there are a lot of people who simply are not interested in maintaining bikes. They use bikes but are not people for whom cycling is a hobby.

teh STWer and their mates are not the norm in cycling

bazzer - there are a lot of people who simply are not interested in maintaining bikes. They use bikes but are not people for whom cycling is a hobby.

Totally understand that, but its not a case of can't its a case of can't be bothered.

I can understand someone who says don't want to do it because I just can't be bothered that's fair enough.

I don't change the oil on my car these days, I could and its not because I don't have the tools etc. Its because I am too lazy to crawl underneath the car.

Its just all the excuses that are trotted out about not having the tools or skills etc. Its a bike not a life support machine.

The ability to service a bike is not a requirement to describe your interest as a 'hobby'. I clean, oil, bleed and repair everything I can. But socks, forks etc... are areas I just won't go, at least until I'm retired and have the time.

My other 'hobby' is photography; and you won't find me dismantling my £800 SLR either... 🙄

Some people just aren't mechanically minded. I'm not musical - parents and teachers tried to teach me a variety of instruments, from piano to guitar to oboe, and none of it stuck - I'm just not musical. In the same way, some people just aren't mechanical.

There's also a matter of time - there's no way a home mechanic, even one with a stble of bikes, will spend as much time repairing bikes as someone who's been doing it all day, every day for years. All that experience adds up.

I'm not saying all LBSs are perfect - the majority of the more complex Rohloff repairs I do, for example, are fixing the bodged repairs of other bike shops.

sure ask1974 - I was thinking about two of Mrs TJs colleagues - their bikes are a means of transport - bought new, serviced by the shop.

ask, socks are nothing to worry about. bit of darning and they'll be fine

I'm the same. happy doing most things, but the cost of a headset press, and the complexity of suspension mean i'll hand stuff like that over to the pros. BTW, i learnt everything i know from the park website

Wow - I expected this thread to be supportive of LBS, but on the contrary generally. That is a real surprise.

I think the issue is hard and I am inconsistent in buying behaviour. My heart hopes that LBS and specialist retailers survive and prosper but my head reminds me that no business has a right to exist. Everyone has to earn that right. I would happily pay a little bit extra for good service and to keep a specialist retailer in business, but the gap between pricing is becoming so great that this becomes difficult.

I was recently in lakes and shattered my helmet in crash at Whinlatter (note to TJ - head took all the impact first!!). Shops at Trail Centre and at Ambleside stocked comfortable Giro Hex replacement at £75. But wiggle is [b]30%,[/b] yes 30%, cheaper[b] before[/b] discount voucher. This is too much for me to cover, so I bought from Wiggle.

But at the same time, local bookshop (that I have always loved and patronised) had Lakes MTB guide at @£16 versus Amazon at $11ish, an even bigger discount but somehow I wanted to use the shop as I have been doing on and off for 20 years. Where is my logic??

But its really quite simply - if the LBS offers a service that people value, it will stay in business, if not it won't. Simples! (unlike certain parts of our economy of course, but that's another story!).

What about places like Evans that offer price matching to CRC et al? Internet prices, the ability to try stuff out/on as well as mechanic services seem quite formidable in comparison. However the knowledge of the staff is not always as broad as I would like it to be.

I try and use my independent LBS if it's something I can't do myself, but I also see that as an opportunity to get new tools and learn more.

How can we produce more Danny Harts and Steve Peats if everyone gets someone else to work on their bike? I think it is an integral part of developing your riding to also enhance your mechanical knowledge. Understanding how the bike works makes it easier to ride/set up.

There are also a lot of other cyclists who are newcomers to the sport and would never think of shopping online. They are directly affected by the LBS' range. There are a high number of Ridgeback, Specialized and Halfraud's bikes in Brighton which is exactly what you can buy locally.

We also have a community bike service called Crank's where people are taught how to repair as they are guided through by a mechanic and the parts and labour are barely more than cost. It's a not for profit group that has gained a huge following. More of these please!

My L(ish)BS closed down about a year back, shame as the sunday rides used to be good, the pace seemed to drop off when it was no longer being led by the shop so I stoped going.

My actual LBS is rubbish, Ok so they organise the local race series which is good I suppose if you race, but they charge £17.99 for brake pads (thats one end, so £36 for a bikes worth!). With prices like that I often wonder why the L(ish)BS didnt survive.

+1 for teamhurt more. I just cant afford to ignore big price differences. Bike station is good for learning as well.