Or maybe that you rarely do technical climbing 🙂
There is that, yes.
I rode spd for years.
Then left biking for years.
Now I find I really don't like spd‘s, totally kills my confidence... My knees also prefer flats which is a bonus!
It's a personal thing but I really do ride parts I would be worried about with feet clipped in.
Just a personal opinion. 🙂
TBH I think both pedals can teach you useful lessons, the pedal itself doesn't make you better or worse but it can change how you ride (mate of mine was very "foot out" on flats, it felt fast but really it was just a mess, SPDs encouraged him to stop that... And it can boost confidence or just generally make you rethink things.
I prefer flats but I think I learned useful things while on SPDs that I might not on flats.
Seen any flats on TDF?
If not 2x the power then at least 150% the power of flats. Or maybe you think you're half as quick as a pro roadie?
Seen any flats on TDF?
To be honest, a pro rider could ride one-legged on a single, broken flat pedal and still annihilate me up a hill.
How techy are the techy climbs?
What skills and what level of skill?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUFs6T8bMT4
Seen any flats on TDF?If not 2x the power then at least 150% the power of flats. Or maybe you think you're half as quick as a pro roadie?
A TDF rider would probably run them even if it only added 0.1%.
You've gone from 200% to 150% so give it a few hours and you should be closer to the truth...;-)
You may be unusual. I've been told by coaches and physiologists that cyclists are usually peripherally limited
That's quite possible I guess. I was an asthmatic kid. Grew out of it but my lungs have always been the limiting factor. It's certainly a lack of puff (to the point of feeling light headed) that limits me on climbs, rather than muscle pain. Mind you, I do tend to spin a fairly low gear which may also be a factor.
“A classic example being in ordinary cycling you do not pull up on the pedals – it’s a complete myth, it is all about pushing down, but in sprinting to get off the start at speed then they do. Sprinters are completely different, they are like weight lifters on bikes."
http://www.over40cyclist.com/correct-pedalling-technique/
https://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke.html
I used spd's for years. When I started doing more technical rides, trail centres and bike parks I thought I'd give flats a go and I loved them -- especially with a decent shoe. Felt I was almost as fast up hill and could be more committed due to a little extra confidence of getting foot down uber quick.
I then got into XC racing - &'continued with my flats. I started doing pretty well and once got 20 secs from a podium finish so it was only then I started to look into the finer detail and chasing down each second. I tried a set of spd's again and realised for this discipline there is a clear advantage - especially with longer climbs and sprints.
So my trail bike sticks with flats and my XC racer with spd's. I feel this is the right pedal type for each bike/discipline.
A classic example being in ordinary cycling you do not pull up on the pedals
Sometimes on a technical climb there are places where you need all the torque you can get, so pulling up is certainly useful. Otherwise, when it's rough the less weighted back part of the pedal stroke is where my foot comes off.
I often ride with SaxonRider who is a fair bit better of a climber on road, but off road he is a fair bit worse. The rougher it is, the further back he gets. He rides flats. I think there is a link between these two facts.
molgrips - Member
I often ride with SaxonRider who is a fair bit better of a climber on road, but off road he is a fair bit worse. The rougher it is, the further back he gets. He rides flats. I think there is a link between these two facts.
On the other hand, I ride with people who are definitely better climbers on road and worse off road but they ride SPDs both. I can beat some of them on the technical climbs, with flats.
I think it's more to do with the discipline they're more used to. Plenty I know who are way better at technical climbs with SPDs than me but are primarily mountain bikers, and just fitter than me.
fourbanger - Member
Seen any flats on TDF?
On the road it makes more sense to be clipped in. Very little reason to move out of the pedals or shift position. Keeps it all consistent.
Flip it around - World Cup Downhill (or most Downhill races in general). It's not all flats, but then it's not all SPDs either. Either seems to allow people to win.
I feel so much more confident with flats. Riding clips I found I had most difficulty with steep technical uphill bits - on occasion I'd lose traction and not be able to get out of the clips quick enough. This meant I'd approach techy climbs thinking about all the wrong things. I do plan to give them another go at some point though although I'm not quite sure why...
Wow, so many responses! Thank you all for the great opinions, it's certainly a topic that sparks a lot of debate.
For me, i have certainly seen the benefit with SPDs in keeping my feet planted on the pedals no matter how rough the going gets, and this is obviously great for racing and getting the power down as often as possible. Getting up techy climbs is easier too but i think the overall power benefits are negligible.
I tend to prefer things that make my riding more challenging in some way as I feel this represents an opportunity to improve. I'm prone to relying on a dab to get me through tight and steep corners so I'm definitely going to persevere with the clips for a wee while to see if i can commit better to these situations.
I love flats though and I want to improve my riding every time i go out so i will for sure be going back to them.
Riding a MTB is awesome whether you're wearing a pair of trainers on plastic pedals or high end carbon clipless so im just going to go and ride my bike!!
Really need to get back into spds but scared of falling off and damaging bike or myself.
Have to MTFU.
Have done Strait lines on my CX.
Used to use '07 XTR on my road bike but got hot spots on my feet but never slipped in the rain or thrown up in the air over bumps.
Fallen off clipped in many times - fricking hurts.
Now have some Time Pedals/touring pedals for my roadbikes, XT wide platforms for the CX and keeping the flats for my urban bike.
To be fair, spuds are more eficient, no questions asked. Not everyone has the confidence to run them off road to full advantage.
Use what makes you feel quicker I guess.
The very very best at "pulling up" can add less than 10% to their power output for any noticeable amount of time. You [i]can[/i] do more for a very short period. <50 pedal strokes sort of thing, not much more.
Funnily enough, the best at pulling up aren't the fastest cyclists. The fastest are those who push hardest and then move there feet quickly (not pulling up, just getting feet out of the way).
And as a few have stated, cycling is limited by cardiovascular capacity, not muscular strength or power (excepting track events). So pulling up with small, weak and *very* inefficient muscles is a bit daft when you are taking energy away from larger, stronger and far more efficient muscles, which are designed to push. (Rather than being designed to stabilise)
You'd be better spending time doing pedalling drills than training to pull up.
They are useful for keeping your feet in place for the few minutes per ride when you really don't want or need to be thinking about foot position. Starting, finishing, sprinting. Especially in a group.
I ride solely with spd.
Road, cx, enduro, jumps (mild ones), xc racing, single speed.
I've several pairs of shoes to suit the style - xc racing slippers to enduro ones.
I love spd - the only time I wish I had a pair of flats is for what I term 'car park shenanigans' - I used to ride trials and you simply cannot confidently hop, skip, and jump in spds!
You sometimes need to give your foot a wave to balance, and you can't do this as finely in clips.
However, even nadgery rough downhill stuff I find spd pedals don't phase. And racing xc I find its night and day.
This study of n=1 was brought to you by shimano.
No declarations of interest submitted...
DrP
And as a few have stated, cycling is limited by cardiovascular capacity, not muscular strength or power
That's the opposite of what I've said...
I rode spds for years. I swapped and I've been riding flats + FiveTens for the last 7 years. I'm currently trying to get back into spds. I hate it SO much! In a month I've not got my cleat position sorted to avoid nagging knee aches and I feel horrifyingly exposed to awkward, toppling crashes. I can feel a bit more power, but it's a struggle.
🙂
molgrips - Member
That's the opposite of what I've said...
Maybe you are incorrect? That's how I see it 🙂
Have ridden SPDs for so long I can't ride in flats to me they feel vague and disconnected. Would buy SPD grips if I could
I don't make any effort to pull up but I take the pressure off each foot on the upward stroke it seems to reduce fatigue
[quote="Molgrips"]That's the opposite of what I've said...Not really, the pain in your legs is due to fatigue, not overloading. So limited by your legs and general vascular systems capacity to process/deliver/move around the fuel and waste products. Not because your legs aren't strong enough.
Two massive oversimplifications meet in the middle.
I've always ridden SPDs, and I'll quite happily do uplift days at Inners on them.
There are some places where an enhanced ability to bail would be good though, and I think I'll be getting some grippy shoes and trying flats again soon (I've only ever used them regularly on a commute, and once on an away ride when I forgot my shoes and could only get pedals/skate shoes at the local bike shop).
I don't fully buy the lazyness thing, you're not going to be able to ride over big things if you don't ride properly, and even if you aren't riding properly there are no points for it. But if you're used to flats just stick with them. Honestly there was no speed difference due to flats on my commuter, I only use spds as I now ride far enough to need to get changed anyway (and because they're farily light, cheap and reliable).
(edit - Short answer, no they won't make you better or worse, but you might not like them so why bother?)
[quote="cynic-al"]Maybe you are incorrect? That's how I see it 🙂Nah, it's just two different over simplifications. The whole model is an oversimplification.
Most of them are.
So limited by your legs and general vascular systems capacity to process/deliver/move around the fuel and waste products. Not because your legs aren't strong enough.
Right.. that's not quite the same thing as I said then. As you were.
