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Bar width affected by wheelsize? 😕
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Not even going to enter into this one!
Really not seeing the problem. A larger wheel would require more leverage, isn't this obvious?
Really not seeing the problem. A larger wheel would require more leverage, isn't this obvious?
If the manufacturers were so thick that they didn't alter head angles and fork offsets to suit different wheel sizes... Maybe, just maybe, you'd have a point!
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i can *sort of* understand what molgrips is on about.
to me, a 29er feels a bit heavier(?) to steer than a 26er, maybe you can go someway to reducing the change in feel by using different bar widths.
?
but imho, [s]any[/s]* the small difference in 'feel' is more easily overcome by forgetting about it, and getting on with your life.
(*ninja edit)
fwiw, i like that 29ers feel a bit more 'carvey', i like that 26ers feel a bit more 'nippy' - i reckon the differences are things to be embraced, not 'hidden'.
If the manufacturers were so thick that they didn't alter head angles and fork offsets to suit different wheel sizes... Maybe, just maybe, you'd have a point!
Except I'm talking a change to wide bars on a 26 inch bike which most likely predates big wheels, so that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Let me rephrase it if there was confusion - who has retrofitted wide bars to an older 26er that didn't come with them, and found it better or worse and why?
770mm on my Glory and 760mm on my Mega both 26
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I just dropped by stw for a good thread to find this kak attempt at knocking 26ers again.
But then sgain I'm not surprised as it was you who started it!
Except I'm talking a change to wide bars on a 26 inch bike which most likely predates big wheels
I was running 760mm wide bars on a DH bike in 2007. Wide bars predate the wheelsize debate.
If you have two radios one with a huge knob and one with a tiny knob, it is much easier to tune precisely the one with the bigger knob.
That doesn't really explain why my wife always says we are on 'different wavelengths'
Knocking 26ers? Me? I only got a 29er last year (because that's what fully rigid steel bikes tend to be) and have no intention of getting rid of any other much loved 26ers. You've got the wrong person.
I was running 760mm wide bars on a DH bike in 2007.
Ok I'm not talking about DH.
molgrips - MemberReally not seeing the problem. A larger wheel would require more leverage, isn't this obvious?
Not really, it looks like common sense on paper but in practice the forces used to turn a bike are small and the difference in gyroscopic force isn't that big (and a light 29er wheel can be a weaker gyroscope than a heavier 26er). And far less than, say, a motorbike wheel weighing 15kg and spinning several times faster, which you turn easily with similiar width bars.
Longer bars make it easier to resist turning forces (ie, bouncing off a rock, getting caught on a rut) and keep control, but that's not wheel dependent for the same reasons. I suspect that actually, bigger wheels should need less force to keep them on track because of their better rollover, but it's a small difference.
Another difference is just the impact on default riding position, they force you into a more open, elbowey stance and usually encourage good weighting etc. Which doesn't change geometry but changes outcomes of geometry, the wider the bar the longer the effective reach
the difference in gyroscopic force isn't that big
I wasn't thinking about gyroscopic forces, I was thinking about the turning caused by bumping into rocks. Bigger wheels need more leverage to hold the line through the bumps, it seems. The 29er wheels and tyres are much heavier, so rotating it through the axis of the forks seems to be quite a bit harder
In 26 land, 680mm is wide for me, it's what's on my 'big' bike, and 660mm felt normal on the 5. But on the 29er 660mm feels narrow like 580mm used to. I originally fitted a 580mm because I intended to use bar ends, like I have on my hybrid, but it was just too difficult to control. Despite that being the width I rode all over the same trails "back in the day".
Wide bars on On One Inbred. Wider the better for me. Depends on the frame I guess and how long your arms are!
I have a 195cm wingspan (tip to tip) ,what bar width would I need to land on a treadmill at 19.7mph on a 26er?
Hahahahaha I'm loving this, props to molgrips for persisting in the face of certain humiliation!
No, you aren't 'retrofitting' anything by putting wider bars on a bike (wider than the ones the manuf decided to put on).
Anyway, have another image designed to explain how everyone feels reading your stuff!
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No, you aren't 'retrofitting' anything by putting wider bars on a bike (wider than the ones the manuf decided to put on).
Er so what does retrofit mean then? I think it means fitting something else after you bought the whole bike.
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I don't think you understand. I'm not planning on buying anything. I'm just idly wondering if other people had come to a similar conclusion - that bigger wheels might benefit from wider bars than smaller ones do.
Obviously I'm operating in a higher plane to the rest of you though.
Obviously I'm operating in a higher plane to the rest of you though.
Cloud 9?
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Yeah, that's you trying to match my awesome mind.
Bigger wheels need more leverage to hold the line through the bumps, it seems. The 29er wheels and tyres are much heavier, so rotating it through the axis of the forks seems to be quite a bit harder
I don't find that the case, I find the increased rollover of big wheels has a smoothing effect compared to smaller wheels over bumps, they catch edges less. The extra weight of 29 wheels is pretty insignificant compared the forces your arms are working with when you ride a bike and what your arms are capable of moving.
Stop thinking up problems and just ride your bike!
"Just put a set of 740mm on my 26" single speed. Felt good"
I put a 760mm set on my 26 SS - means I can really lean over to get my breath back when I'm knackered after 15mins of legwork
Ok I'm not talking about DH
Erm, OK.
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Stop thinking up problems and just ride your bike!
Hang on, you thought I was standing in my garage with a set of bars in each hand paralysed with indecision? Whatever amuses you I suppose, but I have no plans to change any handlebars in the immediate future. Rode twice at the weekend too, using the same bars that have been on the bike since its second ride a year ago.
I'm not keen on wide bars, I have tried 740, they get cut to 720, then 710, not less than 700 as I don't want to look like a freak 😯
But here's the thing, how did we ride before these magical wide bars? Put in more effort or did we just avoided trees easier?
But here's the thing, how did we ride before these magical wide bars? Put in more effort or just avoided trees easier?
Don't know, I am still using 600mm wide bars. Have tried wider and just don't like the feel of them and end up cutting back down to 600mm. Yes they feel more reassured when on technical terrain but the arms out, slow steering feeling doesn't work for me.
Ok - so 2unfit and kerley - what sized wheels? I'm wondering if everyone who doesn't like them is on 26?
TBH, 700 on both (29 & 26), I mean how hard can it be to turn a wheel on a push bike?
But I'm going 670 on the next FS 26" project as that is what I have in the spares bin.
Surely gotta be down to arm length and shoulder width..
Trying to factor in wheel size is like adding skull diameter, shoe size and bicep force divided by tricep force x the square root of velocity into the equation..
(26", 5'8, medium length arms and 710mm bars)
Less force required to turn a smaller wheel quickly. It's not that daft.
Less force required to turn a smaller wheel quickly. It's not that daft.
Are you saying that at any point you have struggled to turn the bars on your pushbike? Do you ride in quicksand?
EDIT FWIW, if you struggle to turn then manual & move the front wheel to where you want it to go, or hop & move the whole bike angle.
This made beer come out of my nose
Are you saying that at any point you have struggled to turn the bars on your pushbike?
Of course I'm bloody well not you pillock.
This forum and the whole bike press is full of people saying wide bars give you more leverage and more control. Why aren't you arguing with them?
Is your headset seized? The bearings can rust up and get stiff.
Thanks for calling me a pillock , good luck with the thread.
Edit for the hell of it, what is the contact patch difference between say a 2.3" 26" tyre & a 2.3" 29er tyre?
Sorry - but that did sound like you were trolling. If it were a struggle to actually turn the bars on any bike you wouldn't be able to ride it at all.
TBH, I can see your point to a degree, but wheel size makes F all difference, if you asked if there was an appricial difference between say 650 & 700mm+ then I could see your point.
26" wheels.
I run a yardstick and have jubilee clips inboard and outboard so I can move the grips depending on whether I'm climbing or descending or bridleslaying.
I don't have a stock of incredulous pics, sorry
I'd have thought* that a 26" wheel would be more easily deflected by a given lump than a 29", and so wider bars might help the weak of grip to control them to a greater extent with little wheels
I'd also have thought** that most "turning" should be achieved by leaning rather than, err, turning and so that aspect would be moot
Furthermore, I'd have thought*** that the height of the bars above the ground just might be the most relevant meausrement if you're doing mental geometry
* ** *** I don't waste my time thinking about that shite. I have moderately narrow bars because I ride between trees & gorse bushes now & then. They're ones that I've cut down after learning something - that was that my knuckles hurt because of proximity of local flora rather than lack of control. If I was going to ride DOWN an open hillside at balls-out speed without riding between trees/gorse to get there, I'd probably have wider bars
If it were a struggle to actually turn the bars on any bike you wouldn't be able to ride it at all.
Wider bars would help with that.
So it looks like most people who don't like wide bars are on 26, so far on the thread?
Need more data...
need more something, fo' sho' 😉