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"Anyone going on a ride without a helmet clearly does not care enough about their children, family or friends. How can you go out knowing you've not done the main thing that can save your life on a bike when you have people who love you?"
Hmmm.. yes all very emotive. Of course if you really cared about your children you'd be sat at home where it's safe.
For me [i]"the main thing that can save your life on a bike"[/i] is planning a route that uses cycle paths instead of roads*. Thus I'm far less likely to get injured than any helmet-wearer using the road.
.
* (I'm lucky that my local facilities are decent and go where I need)
and as said earlier cyclists die wearing helmets, they are not a panacea, they may help they may not.
I dont think there is any debate as to whether the PPE does work. The debate would be about at what point [ speed or impact or force] it was no longer effective.
People wearing seatbelts die.
Non smokers die of lung cancer.
So have a fag and dont wear your seatbelt
Anyone going on a ride without a helmet clearly does not care enough about their children, family or friends. How can you go out knowing you've not done the main thing that can save your life on a bike when you have people who love you?
this really..
I don't think my other half would see the point in an STW logic vs reason debate (d'ya like what I did there..?) if I was paralysed in a bike accident, and hadn't been wearing a helmet..
the only reason that I seem to be picking up from this thread for not wearing a helmet is that it psychologically or physically feels nice..
hmm.. how effeminate
or.. 'I'm a grown-up and I can do as I please'
awesome.. 😆
@munrobiker Whilst everything you say is true, it doesn't take into account the fact that 'we' take much bigger risks and yet don't wear a helmet. Many more lives would be saved if car drivers were made to wear helmets than if cyclists were made to, but the public perception is that cycling is more dangerous.
I went cycling yesterday, and didn't wear knee pads, chest protector, goggles or a hi viz.
Clearly, I don't care about my wife or daughter.
So much guff, so little time
if I was paralysed in a bike accident, and hadn't been wearing a helmet..
Why include the word "BIKE" in this sentence?
Personally I think anyone who can't make their own choices in life without first asking a load of piss takers on the intenet should clearly not be allowed to leave the nursing home!
Now what should i have for tea tonight.........
the only reason that I seem to be picking up from this thread for not wearing a helmet is that it psychologically or physically feels nice..
How about [i]"I just don't think I need one for this ride"[/i]?
I don't think my other half would see the point in an STW logic vs reason debate (d'ya like what I did there..?) if I was paralysed in a bike accident, and hadn't been wearing a helmet..
But would she understand why you weren't wearing a neck brace?
Or spine protector?
Or do you not [i]think you need one for this ride[/i]..?
As has already been stateed a helmet will limit the extent of your injuries if you take a tumble at about ~12-15MPH maya a shade more depending on the incident, they are not a shield of invulnerability they will not protect you from some plumb in an X5 or even your own poor judgement.
I assessed the risk of me taking a low speed tumble as being sufficient to justify wearing a helmet when riding a bike.
What I don't see the need for is for those of us with skid lids to evangelise to the helmetless as if they are hard of thinking or something, they've taken the same information on board and made their own judgement, that should be an end to it.
Wagging your finger and quoting H&S stats isn't going to to convert anyone, it's more likely to get you punched...
OP you found an accident victim and while I'm sure you assisted him, I can tell you were already mulling over your next STW thread, relishing the oportunity to post up your first hand cautionary tale to the helmetless... Well done you :slow clap:
But would she understand why you weren't wearing a neck brace?
Or spine protector?
let's not give her more ammunition hey..?
as for the twaddle about wearing a helmet in the car..?
either you are not pushing yourself hard enough pon the bike or you are a very bad driver..
I've had two fairly minor spills already this year that resulted in me ****ting my head on a rock.. thanks to my helmet I shrugged it off and carried on the ride, rather than facing the possibility of a day or two off sick with concussion..
I personally feel full of win.. what you do is up to you, this is the first helmet evangelising thread that I've joined, but mainly only out of respect to TJ..
and if big scary cookeea was gonna punch me.. I'd like to wearing be a helmet
let's not give her more ammunition hey..?
Ahh, clearly you need a helmet to protect you from the giant thumb hovering over you 😉
the thumbprint on the top of my head has certainly left my skull a lot more vulnerable to accident trauma ... yes
😳
either the likelihood of occurrence or the severity of the consequences -- is increased by not wearing a helmet or any one of the various other things that fall around about point 4 on the risk management hierarchy. The reason people get het up about such things isn't because the increase in risk is significant, but because they have assessed the baseline risk of cycling as much higher in the first place.
Its a good point that there is some perception that it is dangerous when in reality it is no more dangerous than walking down the street
That said I have had more incidents on a bike and crashes * than I have walking.
It is disenegenous to suggest the severity is not decreased by wearing a helmet as it is as it meets a certain standard for protection, this may not be life saving but it is not nothing either.
EDIT: i think the other thing is I do expect to crash ion a bike at some point where as I do not expect to crash in car - well that is what using both has shown over the last 20 years
* just counting road that weren ot my fault or due to MTB skill/ability or lack there of.
Read every post on this thread, it's a slow day. Never mind tour of britain will be on soon.
either you are not pushing yourself hard enough pon the bike or you are a very bad driver..
never seen a car pull out in front of someone? never had a car drive into the back of someone?
think of all the whiplash claims that could be written off by enforced neck braces. Think about the burns that could be prevented by the use of flame proof overalls.
That said I have had more incidents on a bike and crashes * than I have walking.
not trying hard enough with your walking, falling off cliffs, scree slopes arse over tit down grassy slopes, all normal part of walking.
As has already been stateed a helmet will limit the extent of your injuries if you take a tumble at about ~12-15MPH maya a shade more depending on the incident,
Helmets do not suddenly stop working at a certain speed. It may be reduced but they still provide protection no matter what speed you're going. Letting a helmet take even a little of the impact which would be otherwise taken by your skull is a bit of a plus point for me.
I do agree though; wear helmet, don't wear helmet. It's your life, I don't care.
Yunki + 1; the car/helmets stuff is nonsense.
never seen a car pull out in front of someone? never had a car drive into the back of someone?
but I fall off my bike.. it's an occupational hazard of habitually trying to ride down the side of stoopid steep granite tors..
most of the fun of it comes from trying to see if I can do it a tiny little bit faster than I feel comfortable with..
8 hours of this per week is a bit more risky than the one motoring accident I've been involved in 25 years of driving shirley..!?
with maths like yours I reckon you've had one too many bumps pon the head.. 😉
Pretty much +1 for what Graham S is saying. This "don't you care about your family?" argument really gets on my nerves. As pointed out nobody says that when people do any of the hundreds of other ways you can hurt your head without wearing helmets, so what makes cycling special?
as for the twaddle about wearing a helmet in the car..?
either you are not pushing yourself hard enough pon the bike or you are a very bad driver..
That's just the DfT accident figures for ya. In terms of [i]"most lives saved"[/i], you'd save a lot more lives by making all car occupants wear helmets than you would for all cyclists.
I met someone on Saturday who said that they always wore a helmet at trail centres because they were tired of having other people growl at them.
I've never had anyone growl at me for not wearing a helmet. What am I doing wrong?
Imagine how your mother/father/friend who keeps nagging you about how dangerous cycling is would feel if you were hit by a car whilst cycling (wearing or not wearing a helmet). Better start driving instead to keep them happy.
Growls at ben in a most disaproving manner
and when i do I will wear appropriate PPE ..I think you have made your point now stop labouring it.not trying hard enough with your walking
That's just the DfT accident figures for ya. In terms of "most lives saved", you'd save a lot lives more by making all car occupants wear helmets than you would for all cyclists.
And stats for MTB ers you do have those to hand dont you :P.
Personally I think i would not bother on the road if the roads were car free
I would not risk it off road as I crash often enough to make me consider that to be too risky.
As pointed out nobody says that when people do any of the hundreds of other ways you can hurt your head without wearing helmets, so what makes cycling special?
Car driving is an absolute essential of life which no-one has a right to interfere with, whereas cycling a mountain bike is probably the riskiest thing an Audi-driving middle manager will ever do. I think that's why.
but I fall off my bike.. it's an occupational hazard of habitually trying to ride down the side of stoopid steep granite tors..most of the fun of it comes from trying to see if I can do it a tiny little bit faster than I feel comfortable with..
8 hours of this per week is a bit more risky than the one motoring accident I've been involved in 25 years of driving shirley..!?with maths like yours I reckon you've had one too many bumps pon the head..
most of the damage i have done has been arms and legs, in 20years i have only had one serious head/ground incident, split helmet, which means it failed to do its job, it was at 25mph and i highsided. Couldn't walk properly for a fortnight as i also smashed my hip into the ground. In fact had more cars run into the back of me than helmet destroying crashes.
Most of my crashes involve going around a corner and failing, in the process smearing blood around the place.
meh..
(can I just make it clear that I would never adversely judge anyone over their choice of safety equipment, but I may quietly be a tiny little bit jealous of their devil may care attitude)
And stats for MTB ers you do have those to hand dont you :P.
Nope but I'm sure they are out there somewhere. I seem to remember the most common injuries are to wrists and collarbones. (He says, speaking as someone who has separated a shoulder without hitting his head).
Personally I think i would not bother on the road if the roads were car free
I would not risk it off road as I crash often enough to make me consider that to be too risky.
Well there you go then, you're almost the same as me. I don't bother with a helmet on my (almost) car-free commute. Some of which is cross-country, but not exactly taxing.
I do wear one when I'm at trail centres or doing "proper" MTBing (sadly all too rare these days) - but mainly to prevent pain, rather than death.
Bloody hell - like pouring petrol on a wasps nest 🙂
Does your helmet cover your face?
It's a good point but I think the overhang of the helmet often protect the sides of your head.
split helmet, which means it failed to do its job, it was at 25mph and i highsided.
????? you hit your head hard enough to split your helmet. You do realise that if you had not been wearing it, you'd have cracked your skull don't you? How could it not?
Perhaps his skull isn't made of polystyrene foam?
Ooooh, are we doing this again? 😉
You do realise that if you had not been wearing it, you'd have cracked your skull don't you?
I'm not about to get involved in a helmet thread, but this kinda thing does annoy me a little. You do know your skull isn't made of polystyrene right? So something that cracked a helmet might not necessarily crack your skull..
Any ways, I always wear my helmet, unless I'm just riding to the shops or what not.
As you were.
Unreal. I don't care who wears a helmet or not, but the denial is simply breathtaking.
Your skull is 6.5mm thick.
Not again 🙁
How about minding your own business.
Unreal. I don't care who wears a helmet or not, but the denial is simply breathtaking.
Your skull is 6.5mm thick.
Dont undersell yourself I am sure you are much thicker than that 😉
So something that cracked a helmet might not necessarily crack your skull..
It would result in a lesser injury with the helmet than without it and that is the point and not a guess.
Unreal. I don't care who wears a helmet or not, but the denial is simply breathtaking.
Your skull is 6.5mm thick.
6.5mm of bone not 25mm of polystyrene
Take an egg and crush it end on. yet egg shell is so easy to break. you may or may not be aware that different materials have different properties.
split helmet, which means it failed to do its job
regardles what i think about the helmet debate, you don't need to worry either way.
It would result in a lesser injury with the helmet than without it and that is the point and not a guess.
Precisely.
Dont undersell yourself I am sure you are much thicker than that
Apparently womens skulls are thicker so you probably are as well. Big girl. 😀
the helmet may of helped, it might not, i don't know, no one can know, that is the point.
What i do know is that hip ****ing hurt for a fortnight and i couldn't bare weight on my right hip.
Head was fine no headache, but that you have been the mud i came down in or it might have been the helmet.
Take an egg and crush it end on. yet egg shell is so easy to break. you may or may not be aware that different materials have different properties.
Yes. Things which are harder generally crack (like an egg). Softer things tend to compress (like foam). It's only an opinion but I reckon if you've split open a hard shell helmet with foam lighting, you'd certainly have done some damage to your head.
Your skull is 6.5mm thick.
And surprisingly good at its job. Almost like it evolved that way.
A helmet is designed to split. A skull isn't.
Split helmet does not mean split skull.
It would result in a lesser injury with the helmet than without it and that is the point and not a guess.
Yep. I've split helmets on what were painful crashes and they would have undoubtedly been even more painful without a helmet. But I very much doubt they'd have split my skull.
My last helmet got split after some feral Edinburgh yoofs thought it would be amusing to drop a large potato on my head as I cycled under an old railway bridge. 😆
"My last helmet got split after some feral Edinburgh yoofs thought it would be amusing to drop a large potato on my head as I cycled under an old railway bridge."
That was TJ trying to prove a point.
If I don't want to read all that, has somebody made an amazing point which will sway me from my current position? Or is it the same old same old?
I'm currently working on the assumption that people who still partake in 'debate' on helmet threads have recently sustained a head injury.