because all user groups hate each other.

why do cyclist jump red lights, why do drivers speed, why do walkers walk in cycle paths?

People see what they want to see and seem to respond as they see fit.

is it that their pace is so slow that a cyclist just appears quicker than they can't register their presence until its too late?

This and not willing to collide with 30lbs of unpredictable moving Alu/Carbon/Ti/Steel, its better for them to let you do what you need to.

A scattered crowd is a bigger and moving obstacle for you to negotiate.

cows & horses in the new forest are the same on or off road

stupidity - that's what it boils down to

(should add, it's by no means all walkers - very many are really nice but some are just oblivious to what's going on. Pedestrians too; if they're having a chat it's like nothing else exists arund them)

The human race ....bizarre

Just wait for the replies giving it "but the cyclist shouldn't be there" or "if it's a footpath, obey the rules, follow the guidelines for living"...

Just to add, it was a canal tow path.

It must be very dependant on where you ride..

30 odd years of riding around here have seen me only encounter a handful of ignorant walkers, and one confrontational guy.. the vast majority are courteous, overly keen to assist, complimentary and interested, although they all appear to get their (very) limited repertoire of cringe inducing banter from the same pamphlet..

I was very disappointed by a walker in the lakes once. granted it wasn't a bridleway but she had no right to hold open a gate and shout "go on son, no need to stop !"

Bitch. I was dying.

My theory is that when you get more then four humans together they take over a space and become oblivious to other humans not in that group, mainly because they all want to look at and interact with each other, no one wants to be periphery not making eye contact, us bikers do it at the end of a trail, students do it on the pavement and train platform, I really don't think anyone is being malicious, just attention diverted.

By George I think rewski might have it.

[quote=yunki ]It must be very dependant on where you ride..
30 odd years of riding around here have seen me only encounter a handful of ignorant walkers, and one confrontational guy.. the vast majority are courteous, overly keen to assist, complimentary and interested,
This.

it was a canal tow path

Our local towpath also attracts a particularly gormless subspecies of pedestrian, dunno why. You just have to slow right down and ride round them carefully whilst making soothing noises so as not to spook them. It's also the only path I've been bollocked for riding on in the past five years or so, even though every cyclist for miles around uses it to get up and down the valley and most of it is designated multi-use bike path. 🙄

Did they not hear his bell?

i think the answers above cover most of the likelihoods. I once rode the Long Mynd and the walkers there were by a country mile the nicest ever - a teacher shouting at the kids to get off the path, others eating a sarnie leaping up to open a gate on a descent and so on. Really noticeable. Mainly I think it is just that walkers are in a world of their own, chatting to each other or themselves and as someone says, standing still and letting us go around seems the best / easiest plan. They don't appreciate that we cant get out of ruts or deep bits or through thick tussock grass very easily.

To be totaly honest i dont have a problem with walkers in the peaks. Most will chat and say hello if you smkle and be polite. After all walking is harder than biking.
My problem is horse riders, one clearly ran me off the path on the way to hope cross from the roman road. A wide path and she went straight towards me. I'd have rode in the middle but it was churned up with hoof print. It a shame as a few times ive held the gates for the pony trekers but not anymore.

Also has anyone notice an increase in jittery horses this year? I normaly approch very slowly and try to make sure they hear me from a long way off, but they still seem to want to bolt.

Now dog walkers are ignorant. Just stand there and let the dog wander around or the best is the dog runs directly at you the they say "dont worry it safe".

pedestrian version of critical mass

I'm sure they aren't ALL that ignorant to the existence of cyclists?

Thoughts please?

insert any mikeconnor quote you see fit here 😉

It's particularily noticable for me, just now, because we're not long back from France where people smiled to see you on a bike, kids said bonjour!, people got out of the way, even gave you encouragement on tricky bits. Then came home and got a mile from the house before someone got angry at me for daring to use my bell, while they wandered 3 abreast along the canal path blocking the whole thing. "Why should we have to move for you?"

made a cyclist go on the grass, off the path to go round them

If someone is stationary and I'm moving then it seems to me the onus is on me to go around someone, not for them to get out of my way

I in FACT believe they are doing the DO like Betty Boo and there's nothing you can DO. it's bloody great big unmoveable rocks in the way that get on my nips though. I'm trying to ride a bike FFS!

extrapolating this slightly....... its been tourist season round here (gower) lately and they are skinny country roads, but two vans can squeese through no probs normally. now i dont mind hedging my van, its not some shiny vw t5 🙄 but why would anyone think that a head on collision is better then letting some leaves brush their paintwork? seriously, the tourist traffic is bang in the middle of the road, watching the hedge while i am in the ditch trying to avoid them. i only want to get to work. are they as suicidal as the sheep? is that waht having kids does to you? so far so good but jesus they scare me

Kevevs- you are [i]through.[/i]

I cycled part of the C2C route last weekend - into Whitehaven from Keswick. I was amazed at the number of cyclists on the wrong side of the road - even on the twisty bits. On a couple of occasions I had to take avoiding action as they were 4-5 abreast.

was driving back with some mates from Snowdon today along A470 to the coast, there was a time trial road race thing going on

Driver: good, that's all ok, they're in single file
Me: mmnhmm.

later... we have to slow down for 2 roadies NOT in single file and taking up the lane on a wide 2 lane road.

Driver: oh ffs that get's on my tits, why do they do this, bloody cyclists etc, highway code etc (you get the gist)
Me: cos you have to give a cyclist the same room as a vehicle, didn't you know this? [i]highway code etc[/i], they are taking less width than a vehicle and we have slowed down for them which makes everything safer y'know, for people.. You'd slow for a tractor going at this speed no?
Driver: erm, err, ahhmm but etc

Why do cyclists stand in the way?

Lost count of the number of times a ride is interrupted by bunches of riders who stop as soon as a Gnar section levels out, in order to compare fork coatings with one another, only to get in the way of people carrying momentum to the next bit.

Or they line up next to the start of a section for 15 minutes, leaving only a 12cm gap for anyone with the audacity to go past them, usually forcing the need for a 13 point, right angled turn onto the trail, avoiding discarded bikes.

When we're not [i]those people[/i], we don't want them there. When we are [i]them[/i], we don't really realise.

This is something I just don't get. I have never met a single arsey walker. Every single one has been polite, got out of the way, chatted, smiled or just been amazed to see you. There's been the odd one that didn't say hello back but they've never got in my way. In total contrast I've met bikers in the hills that are so full of themselves, or preoccupied with their form or whatever that they haven't even acknowledged you and nearly run you off the path as they seemed unwilling to slow down and share a shared path. Nowt as queer as folk.

It'd be cool of you could classify annoying groups of human beings into detailed subsections. Then find a formula to connect certain annoyances to each other that'd cancel each other out in a puff of compassion and empathy. That'd be good.

I think it's reasonable for them to stand still and let you get around. Its not aggression or ignorance.
I've been in many situations where the walker tries to get out of the way whilst you take evasive action, but you both veer off in the same direction which is worse.

I was riding home up a track this week and these two runners were in front of me.

They reached the gate, opened it, saw me coming and held it open for me.

The girl was one of the prettiest girls I have ever met in real life and she smiled at me.

Just had to tell someone that.

They have a sense of entitlement.

The girl was one of the prettiest girls I have ever met in real life and she smiled at me.

I love moments like that!

I must say that I have also found a better reception on the trails in France than the UK. The worst was in the Lakes on the Ullswater bridleway -some "helpful" lady looked at me and two freinds, turned her back then deliberately moved into our path. When we stopped she say " I didn't see you, why dont you have a bell?"

I would also agree about the negative comments about some of the cycling community, particularly about gathering at the start of new sections of trail and then not liking the fact that you just want to carry on past them.

Nowt as strange as folk.

" I didn't see you, why dont you have a bell?"

IME bells don't help much - you ring your bell, they hear it, stop and turn toward the noise to see what it is, ie. directly into your path, so they then see a cyclist heading straight at them and get alarmed (even though you're already prepared to stop before you hit them of course).

Maybe the solution is some sort of rally style scandinavian flick while ringing the bell, sell em a dummy on the left and dive to the right screaming 'Strava!' as you pass....

[edit]except of course for the majority of perfectly well mannered walkers who engage in a bit of banter, or see/hear you coming and courteously move aside, or even hold open gates regardless of their prettiness.

The girl was one of the prettiest girls I have ever met in real life and she smiled at me

To be fair, Samuri has only ever met 3 girls.

/jokes

I live in the Brecon Beacon National Park and have a bit of abuse from walkers; but only ever on a bank holiday weekend.

I've tried riding with and without a bell and both seem to cause offence.

If you ring a bell it seems to be perceived as "get out of my way", and you get sarky comments if you don't ring. Especially on the cycle track that runs past my house. I can be cycling to my local shops on a signposted national route and people who have driven out of town to park by the path and empty their dogs outside my front door seem to think they have some sort of moral highground over me!

I always assume walkers will behave unpredictably. Like sheep but without the ability to bolt off into the heather when they make the wrong choice. To be honest, it's better if they stand still, unless they're on the only rideable line.

I've never had anyone actually hear a bell.

Its just people IMO. I've given up getting cross with dozy walkers who's reaction to "Good Morning" is to turn round and fan out across a track.

Always amuses me if there walkers only on the left side of the path, and I call out "hello can I pass you on the right please" they all step to the right. Often considered calling out the opposite, all Darren Brown etc...

Generally I slow down, shout excuse me, they move, I thank them and ride on.

Balance and harmony restored.

+1 @composite

They have a sense of entitlement.

As a road user/commuter I've vanned, driven, motorbiked, cycled, and walked (not so much on the road when walking) and as a countryside enjoyerer from the age of about 6 I've walked, run, built camps and played 40 40 in, cycled, motorbiked and even horsed a bit.

I don't get pissy with or try to stop anyone, and I think it's cos aside from driving an HGV or a landrover, I've been in all the other shoes. It's called zen or something. Om.

Most are fine in my experience, I always try to be polite, however there do seem to be a few - about 10% - who look up, register you then move to fill the entire path and just stop. Bizarre.

Personally I find that the a bell is one of the most disarming sounds for walkers (imagine what the thoughts of a cycle bell conjure up in your mind). They generally move over before looking around to be annoyed by a middle aged IT audi driver bearing down on them in body armour.

Also I agree the further from a busy car park - the less the issue.

Was there any need for this incorrect use of stereotype?

middle aged IT audi driver bearing down on them in body armour

Everyone knows IT Audi driving weekend warriors only go to trail centres and are unlikely to see any walkers 😀

SimonFBarnes had it bang on when he said that on actually hearing a bell (as most walkers don't hear you ringing like a fire alarm), walkers will look upwards expectantly, waiting for a ginsters pasty from the great celestial microwave in the sky...

It is bizarre sometimes. I came accross two German speaking walkers on the West Highland Way last weekend near Tyndrum on a wide bit of trail, heading the same way as me. It wasn't a nice day so there was almost nobody out. I approached slowly, said "good morning" in a friendly way. Nothing. They kept walking and talking blocking the whole path. I assumed with the language maybe they hadn't registered. So I tried again, but a bit louder (I was about 5m away). Nothing. So I tried again, but louder, from about 3m away. Nothing. Finally, I shouted "GOOD MORNING" as loud as I could and the lady sort of shambled out of the way. The guy kept going and I went off piste around him.

A really odd experience, I'm going to put it down to them being deaf as otherwise it was fairly odd behavior. 99% of walkers I come accross are absolutely fine, and I'm always polite. Another lady walker that day thanked me for slowing down and stopping so as not to splash her.

My worst experience of walkers was down in the Lakes last summer. I was climbing up Latrigg, out of Keswick to do the Skiddaw / Blencathra loop. I had been climbing up the steepest bit of Latrigg to the point where I couldn't turn one more pedal stoke, I was defeated. I looked up to see how far I'd gotten, into the faces of about 20-30 walkers lining each side of the path. As I went to put my foot down they all started clapping, cheering 'Bravo' and generally encouraging me on.

Swine, gits....... Fifers! I will never forgive them for that. I think my heart stopped at least three times up at the gate.

Walkers.....don't talk to me about walkers unless they're cheese and onion flavour....grrrrr!

B. 😉

I do all my riding in highland Scotland and only really encounter walkers when I do Munros, which I do quite a lot. IME, 90% of walkers are positively encouraging - not just getting out of the way, but friendly and chatty. Most of the rest are neutral, but get out of the way without complaint. About 1% obviously disapprove of bikes in "their" environment, but I've literally never had anyone block the path or actually make a negative comment

Cycle paths are a minefield, what with pootlers just riding all over the shop, walkers, and speeding lycra, much safer on the road where at least rules/danger create compliance(mostly) 😉

Bridleways, you've got the dreaded hayburners to factor in !

If done deliberately, yep. The sense of entitlement is the biggest issue in this country,

We encountered some shear bloody-mindedness at Gisburn on Saturday. As we came down the first singletrack section through the trees, 3 ramblers were walking up it. They were informed politely they were walking up marked mountain bikes trails. There reaction to this was to assert their god-given right to walk wherever they choose. Ok - your funeral.

We got back to the car, after a detour to play on the black at the top, to find my missus covered in shit and nursing fresh bruises. She'd come off after encountering the same 3 ramblers walking the wrong way up the bloody north shore section!!! 😯

She'd come round a corner on the boards to find them stood in front of her. She shouted for them to move, but they just stood there. She slammed on, lost the front, and went off the side of the boards. On witnessing this, they didn't offer to help, just left her lying there with her bike on top of her, and walked off.

Apparently there was a lot of swearing. If I'd have been there, there would have been a damn site more than that! Possibly executions! Absolute bloody idiots!!!

because all user groups hate each other.

Nope. I was once forced to ride into a ditch running adjacant to a 10 foot wide fireroad by a bunch of MTBers having a chat ... at a trail centre. Not one of them acknowledged my presence.

Most people I meet are consistently polite. Quite often they slow my progress, and sometimes it's a little frustrating, but it's never intentional and so I smile and say hello, and carry on. At the end of the day we're all sharing the same space, and there's got to be a bit of give and take. It's not hard really.

Honestly though, the rudest have nearly always been MTBers. I was once called a **** as I sat (well off the trail) eating a banana!!! This was in the middle of nowhere. Maybe he thought I ignored him. Well I'm sorry I was lost in my thoughts, but I acknowledge 99% of people I meet - is there really any need to abuse a complete stranger enjoying the countryside?

Sometimes I'm not surprised walkers get a little irrate.

She'd come off after encountering the same 3 ramblers walking the wrong way up the bloody north shore section!!!

Wow. Impressive. I bet they were dead chuffed with themselves after that. ****s. 😯

Hope Pro 2 hubs are the solution - everyone gets out the way if they think they're being chased by an angry locust.

Consideration of others is what is supposed to mark us out as civilised, it mostly works, whether on the road, path, in work, all interactions require some use of thought process.
Occasionally, it may be absentmindedness, but can appear as something worse, in groups a different dynamic can rear its ugly head-- especially the sense of entitlement some feel when they are having 'me' time.

I live in a small university city, very soon we will be invaded by lots of the above,not all,but a significant minority just interact with their own ---they literally do not see other people !

Bloody walkers, so flippin' inconsiderate. Last week I was cycling up a very steep trail and one of held open a gate for me, which meant that I couldn't stop and catch my breath! The sheer cheek!

Oh and if you want an example of bad trail behaviour, then a couple of weeks back at Coed Y Brenin, my mate crashed his bike and was screamed at by some fat bloke on a Giant who'd been following him closely for having the audacity to be lying in the trail with a bike on top of him, when obviously el Fatto had right of way.

Thankfully, my mate had the presence of mind to put Fattsky right on his assertion that he owned the trail that day, but the point is that everyone can be a colossal tool when they want to be, irrespective of whether they wear red socks or SPDs.

Some ignorant, some not, just people generally, in life.

Those that stand behind the kicker-rocks on the crag to lee quarry 'highway'...well they are a different breed altogether. 🙄

I have been known to give the especially ignorant ones a subtle brush on the way past.

I ALWAYS thank the polite ones.

I genuinely beleive they are frightened of cyclists, certainly those that ride them MTB thingumybobs.
As walkers tend to move in packs they get a feeling of safety and cohesion, this they like, anything that disturbs their pattern and it all goes a bit “peeking out of net curtains” where they just tend to stand still and gaze.

Love em or loath em, they’re harmless and provided you approach with caution and leave with grace no disturbance is caused.

I ALWAYS thank the polite ones.

This, is not only a great habit as it is the decent thing to do, but also the most perfectly targeted weapon against the diehard anti mtb rambler types.

I'm always incredibly nice, polite, slightly chatty and generally lovely when I sense a grumbly red socker in a group. And they HATE it. They want a mtber who complies to the stereotype of rude and dangerous, so they can bitch on about them for the rest of the walk, tell people in the pub afterwards about how he was damn nearly killed etc.

But if you're really nice, give way, or give them a polite warning, give a comment about the weather, bob off the track to pass them etc, you deny them that and contradict their opinion.

And to anyone not of that mindset, it just seems like your being nice. No collateral damage unlike getting into an arguement.

Watch their faces, you can see it work, its wonderful 😀

unklehomered +1

"My work colleage, who isn't a cyclist was [b]totally taken aback[/b] at how rude the walkers appeared.

He was [b]even more shocked[/b] when I told him that's just what they seem to do.

My wife, who rarely rides, was [b]equally taken aback[/b] when out riding on our holiday at how ignorant walkers appear to be when a cyclist approaches. She was [b]even more shocked[/b] when I replied that's just how they are, live with it, it won't change"

You don't think they were just taking the piss?
Or just overreacting , can picture your work mate doing a triple take upon seeing the walkers...

In the peaks, I find there is a correlation between walker politeness and distance from the car park. Hearty types with big rucksacks in the middle of nowhere are usually more friendly than the 'I've walked 300M from the car park and I own the countyside' brigade.As with all generalisations not always true but often enough to notice.

unklehomered +2

Riding down the bridle way at castle crag; a group of three walker in ront. They hear us from miles off. All walk to one side of the path (way) and then at the very last minute one steps out to the other side and says 'have you not heard of a bell'. I had to laugh there was lot of noise being made by us.

I think it's a mode thing. When people are walking in town, say, they are in town mode which means keeping a good eye out for cars when they cross (usually). When at say the park with kids, they are automatically tuned to watch out for kids getting into peril. When driving, they are watching for road hazards (mostly) and staying on the left etc.

When walking, however, it's supposed to be peaceful, unhurried and free from the constraints of traffic laws etc. Which, to be honest, is a fair point. They are doing a slow activity, their minds are in slow wandering mode which again I can understand and appreciate myself. When MTBing however you are in active hard exercise mode on the ups or adrenaline speed mode on the way down, so you are in a completely different world and they are not expecting it.

If they were standing around in a road and you came along at 20mph in your car, they'd leap out of the way sharpish because they know it's a road and that fast things will be coming along; there is danger which is registered down to the subconscious level. The opposite is true when they are walking, which is why there's always a pause and a moment of confusion as you come hurtling around a corner.

If there's enough cycle traffic though, say on a busy cycleway, walkers often switch to danger mode after a while (or immediately if they are regulars on that path) and start co-operating instinctively.

Remember, out on the trails they've probably not seen many people for hours and it's all peace, quiet, birds and squirrels. So a speeding MTBer quite a discontinuity.

And to be fair, I think they have a right to their peace and unhurriedness out in the woods.

She'd come off after encountering the same 3 ramblers walking the wrong way up the bloody north shore section!!!

😯

I did encounter a nice old couple who were about to stroll up Hully Gully the other day, but they were perfectly pleasant and genuinely unaware they were in danger of getting totalled by an unsuspecting rider.

My mate has an air horn strapped to his bars for just such encounters, but it seems to antagonise people, i think if you make people aware of your presence in a reasonable way , they can't grumble, but as we know there are those that are not happy unless they have got something to moan about.

Personally a bell is for small children on bikes, and service in a posh hotel

Unk and Mol +1.

I think it's two separate things to be honest - people ambling along in a world of their own and just not registering that there's a bike behind them is one thing, and entirely fair enough - I find these folk usually leap out of the way and apologise profusely when greeted with a cheery hello.

The deliberate blocking of the trail I've never really experienced. Those people are just dicks.

Funny, I have yet to encounter any hostility from walkers (or horseriders). Politeness and respect all round seems to work in my experience. But I do have a little chuckle at our expectations that when cycling on the road we are entitled to hold a sensible position and expect vehicle to manoeuvre around us, but we sometimes feel unwilling to do the same with walkers!!

The deliberate blocking of the trail I've never really experienced.

Me neither.

So a speeding MTBer quite a discontinuity.

I think it's this that often causes the problems though..

Whilst it's unavoidable that sometimes you will approach at speed, the majority of times it's possible to slow to a unintimidating pace.. maybe even walking pace, or a complete stop for a chat or whatever..

speeding around hoping that folk don't panic and can react appropriately is bellendery IMO

Yeah - shared trails = give and take, and that means slowing right down, getting out the way of horses, that kind of thing. I think we're a bit spoiled where I ride (t'Peak) 'cos there are so many bridleways that are only really used by bikes, in an area with less RsOW it could be a bit different. But the shared trail etiquette still applies.

A long time ago, before baggies were invented, me and a friend were out in the North Wales mountains on our fully rigid canti equipped bikes enjoying a very rare bit of cheeky footpath (still practically never do this) simply because it was a first class grassy mountain descent.

We met a group of old classic red socks style walkers as we crossed a stile, one bloke and about 5 women. The bloke scowled and grumpily mumbled about PROW legislation, but the women were quite amused and went 'OOOOH hello young man ooh aren't you strong!' as we lifted our bikes over the wall and made various other comical slightly lewd remarks.

The old guy was even more miffed by this and tried to dismiss our show of strength and virility by saying 'that must be one of those new lightweight bikes'.

I think we're a bit spoiled where I ride (t'Peak) 'cos there are so many bridleways that are only really used by bikes

same here on Dartmoor.. In fact, if I'm honest I rarely encounter another cyclist or walker.. 8)

The deliberate blocking of the trail I've never really experienced.

To be honest if you've never ridden in a place that sees a lot of pressure on the trails you won't have experienced much of this. Some places down south are thronged with all manner of trail users, as are some up North, due to city proximity etc.

@binners

Interstingly a little map study reveals that Gisburn is in fact mostly access land. Now I'm not sure how the introduction of trails on access land effects the 'right to roam responsibly' but I suspect the responsible bit could be called into question for the events you describe.

ive found that shouting "bike" rather than excuse me works a lot better. they instantly know youre a bike trying to get past rather than someone asking for help.

^^^^^^

as above, a good cheery "good Morning/afternoon" gets the attention better than a bell or "scuse me"

YMMV....

hugor - Member

I think it's reasonable for them to stand still and let you get around.

Well, depends. If it's a wide path/trail and there's room to get around, then that's fine. If there isn't, then it's not. Common sense IMO. When I stop, whether on wheels or not, I make sure there's space for others to pass easily because otherwise, why even stop? And as the person who's stopped, it's far easier and safer for me to get off the trail than to expect someone who's riding/walking/running/horsing to do so.

Usually find slowing down and saying 'Excuse me' and 'Thanks' or 'Lovely day' promotes more positive responses.

Most people are pretty polite and helpful where I ride. A lot of walkers are completely unaware - often the older ones have trouble hearing. They also get caught up in the social aspect of the walk and become oblivious of who else is around them.

Have been scorned for 'not using me bell' even when I have. Usual suspect - silver ramblers who should be thinking about wearing a hearing aide. Rang my bell continuously on the way back. The look on their faces was priceless 😀

Have found horse riders to be pretty considerate if I am considerate with them - slow down and ask if the horse is ok with bikes. Often see pretty ones 🙂

For some reason it's some of the dog walkers who believe they have primary rights over the moor. A few don't bag up their dog cr*p which is pretty grim if you get it into your tyres! Now carry bags and helpfully offer them to anyone who looks like they might need them 🙂

People just see things from their own perspective - cyclists (including me) especially.

In the peaks, I find there is a correlation between walker politeness and distance from the car park. Hearty types with big rucksacks in the middle of nowhere are usually more friendly than the 'I've walked 300M from the car park and I own the countyside' brigade.As with all generalisations not always true but often enough to notice.

Absolutely bang on, that! In my experience. Especially in the lakes when you get within striking distance of Windermere