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[i]CC posts a lot on light threads.
[/i]
Poppa, you are Sherlock Holmes and I claim a new set of violin strings.
🙄
I post on other thread too, but what I see is this DX light is a good example of whats wrong with global economics, and UK buying habits.
today we will learn about the [i]Pain[/i] that is to come via the spending review. How many people on here are going to moan about that ?.
But getting back to global economics, the current situation is at a time when China is still expanding. Wait til China catches cold, and their currency depreciates. There is a mountain of Chinese workers yet to be mobilised, who will work so cheap, you wouldn't believe it.
You aint seen nothing yet.
I like all the [i]opinions[/i] about me.
Posted by idiots who can't answer the 240 billion going to China from UK, and only 100 billion coming from China to UK.
(But who are black belts in the art of the forum flame off.)
To complicated for ya, innit, cos you love cheapness like a crack addict loves, errr, crack.
Go on, tell me what your job is and how you would like it if people turned to you and said.
"you cost too much, I can buy what you make cheaper from Mr Wong.....YOU ARE FIRED !"
Come on DX light lovers, tell us how you're putting british workers our of a job for cheap chinese goods. Not just lights, how about shoes.
Who is wearing a british shoe right now !......
UK cars ?, the last mass producer, Rover, is in the hands of a Chinese company. Luverrly example there.
What are all those ex-Rover workers doing now ?.
This isn't about lights, its about the UK blindly going down the same road the US did, buying cheap from China has smashed their own economy to the cost millions of jobs.
Is this what we want for the UK ?.
Prefer to buy UK - that way I can speak to the manufacturers etc. At least that's what I thought. Emailed Exposure twice now about my dying Enduro and haven't heard a squeak in reply. Crap service IMO. They might tell me to get stuffed - that's fine - but at least a response would be nice.
I bought a British light and the service is utterly brilliant.
Mind you, my Lumix torch was made in China...
CC, yesterday:
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Only kidding. I understand where you are coming from, but you don't do yourself any favours by sounding so, well, mental. FWIW I thought Rover folded because no one bought them, because they were uninspiring dull cars.
I think the demise of UK manufacturing is a lot more complex than blaming it on MTBers for buying Chinese lights, including government policy and the general lack of respect afforded to engineering disciplines in the UK. They seem to be doing OK in Germany.
Posted by idiots who can't answer the 240 billion going to China from UK, and only 100 billion coming from China to UK.
Ok, I'll take the flame bait.
I think the trade gap between UK and China is generally about £1bn a month, you seem to be suggesting a gap of around £140bn. Source please.
I'm sure you're aware also that our overall trade deficit is decreasing and now below £5bn, helped of course by the recent depreciation in sterling. Admittedly that is not as much of a reduction as many would like to have seen and you would be right in hoping that exporters would have done more with something like a 25% depreciation in sterling.
The other interesting point is that China recently posted a trade deficit, so how do you explain that one?
C_C,
You are aware that pretty much all the lights are made in the far east?
I mean the company that makes them is called Seoul Semiconductors for a reason?
Hope machine a fancy housing for them and stick them together, but everything from the LED to the lens probably came out of the far east.
Magazines are reliant on the advertisers, and product reviews will always be focussed on advertisers.
Also don't forget where all the inside from your british lights are made. The LEDs, drivers, leads and batteries aren't exactly lovingly sculpted by ex-miners' hands in Yorkshire. The aluminium might be from a british smelter though, possible, maybe...
To complicated for ya, innit, cos you love cheapness like a crack addict loves, errr, crack.
[center]8O[/center]
Poppa.
[i]Only kidding. I understand where you are coming from, but you don't do yourself any favours by sounding so, well, mental.[/i]
Ok, I'll take the mental comment (slightly amused by how you put it)in exchange for your trying to understand where I'm coming from (no pain no gain to get understood).
[i]I think the demise of UK manufacturing is a lot more complex than blaming it on MTBers for buying Chinese lights[/i]
Fair play, I don't wont to flame fellow rider and DX light lovers, but the DX light strikes me as a good example to point out that just cos something is cheap, doesn't make it good. From an economic prespective, ie, UK jobs.
[i]government policy and the general lack of respect afforded to engineering disciplines in the UK. They seem to be doing OK in Germany.[/i]
In a lot of ways you have hit the nail on the head there, imo.
CC - did you manage to source your UK/China trade gap numbers?
thread starts with why a light isn't in a magazine review and turns into a debate on global economics. Cool.
I think cc has a point but its more about specialisation and countries focussing on what they do best - the uk just needs something to specialise in...
BBC R4 Today, business news, earlier this week, Tuesday I think.
If I can be 4rsed, I may try to post something you can read.
I'm not on a totally anti China mission, everyone gets hungry, but looking at how much trouble the US got into with China, we'd be foolish, imo, not to look at that and learn.
The US owes China loads of money, and because no one there buys [i]Made in America[/i] anymore, the US economy is having trouble dealing with the debt for lack of a healthy balance of sectors each contributing to the economy there.
Germany had watched the UK experiment for decades, and when it went pop ! in our faces a couple of years ago, they sat back and quietly congratulated themselves for not following our economic model.
Yes, Germany is in hard competition with China, but at least they have something to sell, that the world wants, and not just financial services.
They continue to be a successful exporter for going to the quality end of the market.
Everyone knows German goods arent cheap, but they still sell stuff, which is why economically, they're doing OK right now, besides being strong enough to bailout Greece, etc.
Go figure.
rob2 - Member
thread starts with why a light isn't in a magazine review and turns into a debate on global economics. Cool.I think cc has a point but its more about specialisation and countries focussing on what they do best - the uk just needs something to specialise in...
We used to specialise in taking over the world but cant do that any more with no navy boats and all the military spending cuts due to people buying bike light from China FFS !!! 😳
[i]the uk just needs something to specialise in... [/i]
Sorry Rob2, don't agree. We specialized in financial services, as Poppa says, at the expense of other sectors.
Now look at us.
I post on other thread too, but what I see is this DX light is a good example of whats wrong with global economics, and UK buying habits.
Like the fact that people are not happy to pay 4x more for an equivalent product just 'cause it was put together in the UK (since most of the internals will still come from the far east)?
Seriously though, I do understand your point, but I expect the change that will have to come is that western companies find ways to make their production and especially distribution more efficient so that the difference in price becomes smaller.
I'm happy to pay extra to get something from an LBS (living in Finland), but if the choice is getting something from CRC, having it in my hand faster without leaving the house and paying several hundred Euro's less then it's suddenly not quite so easy. Why would I rather not go and give the money to feed the poor if i'm basically doing charity?
Don't worry folks, it's only a matter of time till we start forking out the proper costs of transporting all this stuff around the world (marine/aviation fuel is likley to get quite expensive over the next decade). Once that gets sorted out, goods from China won't be nearly as attractive as goods which are manufactured within a few hundred miles of the consumer.
Captain Crash - I can't afford a light more expensive than £30 so spare me your sanctimonious, self righteous and condescending twaddle.
Referring to the OP...
A Magicshine has been requested for testing but our general policy is to stick with established lights manufacturers to ensure anything we recommend is a fully supported product.
From this page: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-lights-186
[i]I think the demise of UK manufacturing is a lot more complex than blaming it on MTBers for buying Chinese lights[/i]Fair play, I don't wont to flame fellow rider and DX light lovers, but the DX light strikes me as a good example to point out that just cos something is cheap, doesn't make it good. From an economic prespective, ie, UK jobs.
Would somebody care to point me to UK manufacturers of the constituent parts that go to make up a competitive MTB light?
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[b]my Hope Vision 2?[/b]
lamp housing machined in-house by Hope in Yorkshire
everything else(emitter / reflector/ electronics / battery / charger)...made in china
[b]my Light & Motion Stella 200?[/b]
all made in china
With 20% of the worlds population living and working there, I think you'll be hard pressed to avoid buying anything Chinese in the future.
Slightly OT - -
I blame the whole EU project for assisting in the rise of the East as a manufacturing power. IIRC it was set up as a trading collective that could impose quotas and Tariffs that would reduce imports and protect the home manufacturers!
So what happened -
The whole bloody thing has become a cash cow for those who serve its parliament, laws created for no reason but to justify there own existence and all the time loosing sight of its true objectives, so in the end as manufactures we become totally uncompetitive with the imports that are allowed to flood in. The reason being that the tax take at the sales end ie VAT is easier to collect then from the intermediate stages. So those in the EU parliament don't give too figs for where the products are created as long as they get their cut !
Anyhow thats why there are cheap lights and Light components flooding in from the EAST!
The whole bloody thing has become a cash cow for those who serve its parliament, laws created for no reason but to justify there own existence and all the time loosing sight of its true objectives, so in the end as manufactures we become totally uncompetitive with the imports that are allowed to flood in. The reason being that the tax take at the sales end ie VAT is easier to collect then from the intermediate stages. So those in the EU parliament don't give too figs for where the products are created as long as they get their cut !
But the EU don't collect VAT. The UK collects VAT. The EU doesn't even collect import duty either, the UK collects import duty.
Which makes things from the east cost somewhat more (at least when it is charged - ie. on larger and more expensive items).
All the EU does is makes it cheaper to import from Europe than from elsewhere, although obviously the cost of labour is cheaper in some other places which has more of an effect on costs.
Now if you'd said that higher safety standards / standards of living things that were EU influenced had an impact on how much stuff from the East costs, you might have had a point, but as it is, you just made no sense.
The whole bloody thing has become a cash cow for those who serve its parliament, laws created for no reason but to justify there own existence and all the time loosing sight of its true objectives, so in the end as manufactures we become totally uncompetitive with the imports that are allowed to flood in. The reason being that the tax take at the sales end ie VAT is easier to collect then from the intermediate stages. So those in the EU parliament don't give too figs for where the products are created as long as they get their cut !
But the EU don't collect VAT. The UK collects VAT. The EU doesn't even collect import duty either, the UK collects import duty.
Which makes things from the east cost somewhat more (at least when it is charged - ie. on larger and more expensive items).
All the EU does is makes it cheaper to import from Europe than from elsewhere, although obviously the cost of labour is cheaper in some other places which has more of an effect on costs.
Now if you'd said that higher safety standards / standards of living things that were EU influenced had an impact on how much stuff from the East costs, you might have had a point, but as it is, you just made no sense.
With 20% of the worlds population living and working there, I think you'll be hard pressed to avoid buying anything Chinese in the future.
Correct.
If you want to own current technology, then it is inevitable that at least some of the constituent parts come from there, or other far eastern/Asian countries who's working ethics you probably don't agree with.
Don't think that just because something has "made in the UK", that all of the constituent parts come from the UK.
....and looking at the current Exposure lights thread, there are numerous cases of people having problems with their lights, no different there from the cheap stuff from dealextreme, except that Exposure have a customer service department who'll sort you out quickly.
cc - we did specialise in financial services but one might argue we didn't do it very well. I guess when I say specialise I mean do it right (granted lots of people made lots of money for a while). But I agree we are in lots of trouble.
I blame thatcher myself. I'm not convinced it was all due to labour per se but rather people who started work/educated in the 80s their approach to work and society and the culmination of her policies.
obviously I have no evidence to back it up 🙂
established lights manufacturers
Why then are they testing a troute light? Hasn't he been around for about the same amount of time (couple of years)? They're about equally established aren't they?
No offence meant to trout as I'm more than sure he fully supports his products!
My airbike light was made in Korea. Is that OK?
Ewan how do you know they are testing a trout light
Magazines are reliant on the advertisers, and product reviews will always be focussed on advertisers.
The first part is as true as it is for our reliance on readers. The second part is complete cobblers!
Ewan how do you know they are testing a trout light
Didn't they test one in last issue of [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/troutie-hitting-em-where-it-hurts ]WhatMTB[/url]?
Ewan how do you know they are testing a trout lightDidn't they test one in last issue of WhatMTB?
It was in the magazine last month? Bike radar = whatmtb/mbuk doesn't it?
So let me get this right - we shouldn't subsidize the public sector, because spending money on a product we could get cheaper elsewhere is the wrong way to go..
..but we should subsidise the private sector, because spending money on a product we could get cheaper elsewhere is the right way to go.
So free markets are good when they screw the public sector, but bad when they screw the private sector.
Okay, I think I get economics now - can I get my "I [i]heart[/i] George Osborne' t-shirt now.
Captain Crash I have to say that you seem to be contradicting yourself massively. You argue that the obsession with buying from global markets at the cheapest rate is wrong as it causes job losses etc in domestic markets. However this view (most utility per $ regardless of externalities) matches with the 'capitalistic' method of selling something for much more than it's worth. i.e. does it not seem absolutely ridiculous for a load of British companies to import components, pay British wages to assemble and forward to distributors who make a mark up rather than being produced 'at source' in the far east? You're being hoodwinked, you're getting the same product for double the price. I would say that any person here could assemble a torch from parts so why is it a good example of British industry declining? not exactly rocket science is it, it just requires huge scale and cheap labour/mechanisation. The people that research and design the components are often western e.g. Cree, Philips etc. and these are the people that make the money, not the people that play lego putting the parts together. As for the trading deficit what would you do? Legeslate that everyone must become an inventive engineer and we should buy British? (even though that means buy Chinese have someone put it together for you for a 200% mark-up)
I am glad I asked....... 🙄