[Closed] Why cant britain produce olympic or even world cup level XC racers

mrlebowski - Member
Like any article in the mag you can choose to read it or not, can't you..?

Like I chose not to read the other mags?

Like I chose not to read the other mags?

Yes.

&?

Are you saying you'd stop reading ST if it started to cover XC racing? I.e just because of one thing you'd drop the mag?

Don't worry he'd only cut of his internet nose not his real one....

anyway Pinkbike do a great job of conributor based write ups of a lot of good racing (XC to Rampage)
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/racing

TBF, those suggesting a switch from mid-pack elite roadie to "top" class XC rider aren't that far off the mark. But unfortunately 15 years out of date.

In the late 90's, with a couple of years transition, it was doable, with certain limitations.
Now, with rules about minimum wages on the road (for the blokes anyway) and the increasing technical levels of the MTB courses, your two years becomes 3 or 4, and the salary drop goes from not very much at all to losing the house and ending up on the street........

Ok, to flip this around... what did Oli B and (DarkCyan's love interest 🙂 ) Liam Killeen do differently to avoid having a proper job and race XC full time?

I guess riding at a time when XC was what everyone did (now we are all much more gnarcore and need a nice long travel endurbro bike for trail mincing) helps as does Liam in particular being ridiculously talented on a bike.

When someone like Grant has minor support (wasn't he still on a 26er for the Commonwealth games?) and riders like Kenta Gallagher moving away at just 22 then something is wrong as there does seem to be a fair amount of young talented riders.

Given Kenta's DH skills I can see the draw to switch but the cynical part of me wonders what sacrifices riders in a similar position with insane technical skills would be required to make to get the "fitness" side up to standard...

Live at home?
Live like a student?
Get very lucky with sponsorship?
Work for the importer?

Or go and live somewhere where XC is popular and not sidelined and ridiculed.
You can watch a few of the XCO and XCM events here live streamed. Only a few angles and a SD stream, but it's done by amateurs, for practise/fun.

Still get several thousand people watching.

Oli B and Liam both had salaries from teams. Liam's in particular quite lucrative for a while so probably built up a little nest egg.

Oli always worked real hard at marketing himself as well as possible and doing everything right to chase smaller endorsements rather than 1 big team pot.

Kenta never really liked XC, just did it because he was bloody good at it, until the funding ran out (supported by BC until 23). Then went on to do what he wanted to once he was paying for it himself.

ferrals - Member
I agree more positive media coverage would improve numbers racing. The thing is cx doesn't get any coverage either (unless the roadie media cover it?) but participation is booming apparently (only done one season myself). Guess that is due to interest at a club level?

Bike 2 work is the real reason CX has taken off.

(I'd also say down in Oz most of the fast XC riders are racing CX and road and probably Enduro too)

footflaps - Member
XC isn't a good investment, you only have two medals at stake. With track, you have multiple medal opportunities, so it's a much better bet if the aim is to maximise return on investment.

This is the nub of it, but I can't help feeling quite sad that the justification sounds more like the decision making process of an investments firm than a sporting body...

I guess we should now tell any kids with dreams of competing in any sport to just make sure there's a convincing cost/benefit analysis to go along with their chosen sport.

Do UK sport often overrule/go against BC recommendations on Olympic funding and selection? If BC don't put a competitor forwards for a given event, could UKS fill the spot themselves?

BC are still the gatekeepers and it does feel like they're just going to keep doing what they know now, not try and expand UK Olympic aspirations outside of track and road, safe territory and a "good return on investment"...

It's disappointing more than anything I suppose, but then again what's really the big whoop about Olympic competition?
It's just a shop window for miscellaneous sports so the sofa surfers can see what's about every four years, and then revert to watching football and eating crisps...

er?? Has it lead to more people taking up CX racing on £1k bikes or just selling them?

Actually it's exactly why i started cx, needed a bike to commute, couldnt face removing all off-road options so looked into a cx bike and, being competitive, within days was planning my first cx season 😆

Very easy to get into cx, welcoming scene, loads of races, the fitness requirements to complete a race are much lower* and the technicality absorbing rather than scary.

* by which I mean you may get lapped several times but you'll probably get round whereas a 1km 15% climb in an xc race may be to much for some beginners to contemplate riding.

Do UK sport often overrule/go against BC recommendations on Olympic funding and selection? If BC don't put a competitor forwards for a given event, could UKS fill the spot themselves?

BC are still the gatekeepers and it does feel like they're just going to keep doing what they know now, not try and expand UK Olympic aspirations outside of track and road, safe territory and a "good return on investment"...

I didn't think CX needed to take off. Some of the UK leagues were seeing 200+ riders in a day when i was still in the UK and i heard that some were seeing 100+ in the main event (West Mids maybe?).

Real road riders do CX to keep their eye in. Don't know who was ostracising you. Unless you were trying to make CX more like MTBing. Or they weren't real road riders 😉

cookeaa - Member

footflaps - Member
XC isn't a good investment, you only have two medals at stake. With track, you have multiple medal opportunities, so it's a much better bet if the aim is to maximise return on investment.

This is the nub of it, but I can't help feeling quite sad that the justification sounds more like the decision making process of an investments firm than a sporting body...

Not to mention that xc mtb is a very accesible form of sport for the general public, much more so than track cycling so in terms of mass participation xc role models would be much more beneficial.

Don't care that the UK doesn't have a top rider at the mo. I'm grateful to have a discipline in cycling to follow that's about enjoying the racing rather than have a bunch of flag waving knuckleheads continuously banging on about how great their country is because its dominating the sport and gunning for their 1 or 2 guys.

XC racing in the UK is fine. There are plenty of events and series comparable to the number of riders who want to do it. Its rare to not be able to enter an xc race on the day. I just think it has limited appeal to many UK MTB riders - they think they're much cooler if wearing baggy shorts and getting their 3 feet of air, also you have to get yourself in reasonable shape for it to be fun....

Would be nice to see some of the younger riders bridge the gap to Nino and Kulhavy though.

Dunno where this rambling dialogue has got to after three pages of STW discussions - really can't be bothered to read all that... 😉

I'll add my tuppence..

Quite simply... if you look at the countries doing well in XC worldwide (Switzerland, France, Spain, Austria, Germany, etc.) - interestingly, they also happen to be the countries where 'XC' riding is still a thing.

We in the UK are awesums at downhill, enduuuuro, etc (despite not having any actual mountains). This amazing ability, in part, I think reflects a greater interest in those aspects of the sport in the UK. In the UK, people largely don't seem to give a damn about XC, hence the widespread (commercial, lottery funding, media, etc.) support for it just isn't there.

Head out to the continent - and you'll see many recreational lycra-clad MTBers out 'XC' riding on short travel 29ers, with flat bars. I get the impression that their approach to mountain biking is more like 'road riding, but off-road'. This attitude is more in keeping with the the XC tradition of our sport, in contrast to those padded up weekend warrior storm troopers you might see at our trail centres.

Clearly the continentals still 'get' XC and this probably delivers a groundswell of support for traditional-style riding, helping integrate it into the collective national consciousness.

Just look at the Brazilian supporters too - absolutely batshit crazy for it.

mrlebowski - Member
...Are you saying you'd stop reading ST if it started to cover XC racing? I.e just because of one thing you'd drop the mag?

You're putting words in my mouth.

It would become less interesting to me because it would mean displacing some other content.

There's already plenty mtb trail-park magazines to record the gnar.

I'm interested in getting around the countryside on singletrack, not zipping around artificial courses. I have nothing against those who do, but it is of negative interest to me.

I'm interested in getting around the countryside on singletrack, not zipping around artificial courses. I have nothing against those who do, but it is of negative interest to me.

There's already plenty mtb trail-park magazines to record the gnar.

[quote=mikewsmith] Love to see a write up on some of the UK xc scene every now and then, That would make some sense. A blow-by-blow account of each race wouldn't (and any published results would be out of date). It would certainly be nice to know who our likely contenders in any future Olympics are before the start of the race 🙂

epicyclo - Member

There's already plenty mtb trail-park magazines to record the gnar.... zipping around artificial courses. I have nothing against those who do, but it is of negative interest to me.

There certainly are, but they have nothing to do with XC.

I'm sure you are semi-trolling, but xc races in the UK predominantly use natural terrain. In fact XC races are one of the easiest ways, in more populated regions, of riding natural stuff fast without worrying about walkers, horserists etc.

[quote=ferrals ]xc races in the UK predominantly use natural terrain.Do they? The only two XC courses I know of up this way are at Badaguish and Contin. Both are on man-made tracks. Could be a lot different further south though.

Well I guess 'manmade' is a bit open ended. They arent normally on trail centre stuff which is what I consider manmade. Obviously will be some double-track/fireroad but often the fun bits are just cleared/raked throguh the forest and get worn in through practise and racing.

You're putting words in my mouth.

It would become less interesting to me because it would mean displacing some other content.

There's already plenty mtb trail-park magazines to record the gnar.

I'm interested in getting around the countryside on singletrack, not zipping around artificial courses. I have nothing against those who do, but it is of negative interest to me.

XC racing get's very little coverage. I can think of only a couple that regularly cover the scene. Yet I could find any number of mags covering DH & Enduro.....

I really fail to see the harm an article on XC racing in the mag would do.

There's stuff in the mag that I'm not always interested in but it doesn't put me off buying it.

You're only reason for not wanting it in the mag is because you don't want to read about it- that's a low quality problem that's really easy to solve....

I dabbled in XC racing many years ago, and re-discovered it this year. Partly as a result of getting back into biking and being unable to commit to (m)any full days out. Short races are a good way to get involved locally.

I have really enjoyed it. Riding around a park as fast as possible against other poeple is great.

As I am pushing 40 and in the middle of the "racer" category, I'm not in any danger of becoming the UK's next great hope, though.

ferrals - Member
Well I guess 'manmade' is a bit open ended. They arent normally on trail centre stuff which is what I consider manmade...

IMO a natural trail is usually something formed by foot traffic in the past which wanders round avoiding bogholes, moving a bit to this side and that side every year as the centre gets too boggy and is repaired ad hoc by the users. It won't have artificial flow, or berms or wooden roads.

mrlebowski - Member
...You're only reason for not wanting it in the mag is because you don't want to read about it...

Got it in one.

You're talking about changing the focus of the only bike magazine I reckon is worth paying for.

So of course it would become less interesting to me. They (STW) are perfectly entitled to change their focus. It would not be a problem to me, it's a free market, if racing crowds out the sort of articles I like I'd just stop buying it.

But in true STW style we've gone OT. To get back to the original topic, it's pretty clear that any competitive XC cyclist in the UK either gets swallowed in the maw of BC and goes with the money (road, track) or has to continue basically self-funded which is a life style that is difficult to maintain for very long.

You're talking about changing the focus of the only bike magazine I reckon is worth paying for.

That's not what I or anyone else whose said they'd like to see some XC racing reported on in the mag.

Go back & read the thread again.

If you'd seriously give up reading ST all because there is one subject being written about that you don't like, that's just really rather tragic don't you think?

mrlebowski - Member
Go back & read the thread again.

Try to stop putting words in my mouth. Try reading this bit again [i]"if racing [b]crowds out[/b] the sort of articles I like I'd just stop buying it."[/i]

I'll say it again:

Nobody has suggested that ST becomes a magazine about XC racing. Nobody.

It's been suggested that the mag has a round of up what's happening on the XC scene.

Is that really too much for you to bare?

Is that too much to ask?

That the mag covers more about what's happening in the sport?

It's not all enduro & DH in MTB you know.......

If it is, then that strikes me as being somewhat mean-spirited. Afte all you don't have to read the article. You can just flip to the next story that you do like.

As for the OP`s choice of title.
Kenta Gallagher, 10th Commonwealth games Glasgow.
Eliminator World Cup in Nove Mesto in 2013.
He did it off his own back...
He chose to walk away from XC World cups for something he prefered. He was riding for a team, had a bike and walked away from it through choice.

[quote=dragon ]Well since even STW can't be arsed even putting up a report on the women's race what hope is there. Someone is listening?

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/rio-olympic-xc-results/

Nobody has suggested that ST becomes a magazine about XC racing. Nobody.

It's been suggested that the mag has a round of up what's happening on the XC scene.

Is that really too much for you to bare?

Is that too much to ask?

To be fair, he has said that he'd stop buying it if XC racing 'crowded out' other content. That's not to say a single article would do it (as you seem to be implying), but rather if the focus of the mag shifted he would reconsider buying it. Seems wholly reasonable to me.

I don't buy it at all, never have. Not bought any magazine (bike or otherwise) in years. My neighbour passes on copies of Roleur and Cyclist, I quite like the latter. But as a general rule I think magazines are a bit crap, XC focused or otherwise.

Didn't know Kenta Gallagher was off playing at DH, seems to be doing reasonably well judging by Roots & Rain.

And heres me thinking all XC racers were utterly crap at anything remotely technical.

Tcha.

ghostlymachine - Member
And heres me thinking all XC racers were utterly crap at anything remotely technical.

They're generally very good. I remember being passed by Adam Craig in a race about 8 years ago. I was on very narrow singletrack with no room to pull over when I heard what sounded like a major crash behind me, only the noise kept coming. It was Craig overtaking myself and the guy in front using the tops of the rocks lining the course.

Simple: The Weather!

We are amazeballs at DH, because the runs are short, and wet bike handing skills = winners

But for XC where you need to spent at least 28 hrs a day in the saddle to have a hope of training hard enough means our crappy weather pretty much knobble's us. Getting wet on morning smashing out the DH runs is fun, but after another wet, cold, 6 hrs in the saddle grinding up some god forsaken windy hill in the middle of nowhere and our athletes are forgiven for knocking it on the head and just going to the pub instead......

You do know that Rissveds still lives for most of the year in Falun.......

And Switzerland is covered by snow much of the year...

[quote="epicyclo"]They're generally very good. I know. I was just going by the general view held on here.

Maxtorque has obviously never heard of one of these new fangled turbo trainers 😀

Didn't know Kenta Gallagher was off playing at DH, seems to be doing reasonably well judging by Roots & Rain.

Got a lot of talent that lad. Remember the vid of him having a battle with someone in a cross race? Every lap the other guy got off over the hurdles and Kenya rode them. Don't know if it gained him much but it was great to watch.

I Met Kenta on a BC training camp in majorca back in 2012, he did xc because he was offered money by BC to ride xc. When he no longer got yhe funding he went back to his roots i.e. Dh.

Changing STW to an xc racing mag will never and should never happen. However, from some comments in this forum people could find it interesting to read. Especially if it opens up a dicipline that previously they had never tried (or not knowingly). If a feature gets people to try out a local xc race, then fantastic: its poeple out enjoying their bike.

Trail types: xc races typically use man made trails but with no 'trail centre' finish. The organisers use natural features and soil, of course there are exceptions.

If this thread has demonstrated one thing, it seems to be the lack of awareness/knowledge/experience of xc races.

Training ise, phil pearce is full time this year and typically rides for 2-3hr a day. A lot of which is on the mtb and off road. Riding on the road doesnt develop the muscle groups you use on the mtb.