[Closed] Why cant britain produce olympic or even world cup level XC racers

[quote=alpin ]Same for XC. If they are in it, and if F1 is being considered then DH should be included, too. I would hazard a guess that more of us can relate to DH than XC.

F1 isn't being considered, and we had a whole thread earlier on whether DH should be included - the point made correctly there was that a small subset of people on a specialist forum might be able to relate more to DH (though what we actually need is a cycling event with rests at the top of every hill and a cafe stop in order to relate to what we do), but for the general public XC is much easier to relate to.

Why cant britain produce olympic or even world cup level XC racers

Because real XC racers aren't interested in a brief pootle around a trail park.

They're doing stuff like the HT550 and the TDR.

We're well represented there.

So how many here have taken part in an XC race?

Surely if we need to boost its popularity taking part at grass roots would be a good start?

I do a few gorrick races a year. Plus few endurance events so I'm doing my bit.

I race all the Midlands, the Nationals, various other grass root races too - FNSS, Thetford Winter Series (RIP 🙁 ) etc.

Tiger6791 - Member

So how many here have taken part in an XC race?

did a few 20 years ago for some Scottish series on a rigid orange C16

I think that once british cycling get hold of any promising athletes they try and get them into track, they have done so to Shaniaze Reed from bmx, and even had rachel Atherton try out on track FFS!

They just don't seem to grasp or understand any other element of the sport

With XC theres only one shot (well two - mens and womens) at one medal every 4 years and you don't know what the course is going to be like and whether it will suit the riders you're investing in til pretty late in the day. Its a very high risk discipline to invest several years of support in. BMX is similar - one shot and no matter how good you are you can just get taken out by someone else's error.

The reason for the focus on track is theres multiple medals available not just for the team but a strong contender has a shot at more than one medal. So team GB focuses more on those multiple medal disciplines (track, rowing, martial arts etc) in terms of investment but theres also a programme within that about identifying talented competitors and steering them towards other sports or to disciplines within their sport where they'll be more successful. Team GB will will effectively head-hunt people across disciplines to get them into a discipline where their physique best matches demands of the sport.

I though that watching the womens Track sprint and thinking the dutch rider Elis Ligtlee - all 6'1" of her - would be rowing a boat if she was british.

if BC were serious about XC they need to make it cool

xc will never be cool, its just dull to watch.

What @epic says makes sense to me

Because real XC racers aren't interested in a brief pootle around a trail park.
They're doing stuff like the HT550 and the TDR.
We're well represented there.

BC can't make an International event "cool" - the rules are set by UCI and they would argue there are plenty of talented athletes from different countries doing the world cup and the Olympics

xc will never be cool, its just dull to watch.

I take it you've not watched any of the world cup rounds this year then?

But you're not suggesting decent level roadies, you're suggesting roadies who couldn't make it. What makes you think they'd do better than the current top UK XC racers who would have made it onto a pro road team if they'd gone that way (oh, and can also ride a bike off-road)? There also seems to be a bit of the usual theme of XC racing not being technically difficult - you do realise that the days of riding around fields are long gone at the top level and the top XC racers would school all of you lot on anything technical?

This. The days of Roadies switching and doing well are over. The courses require technical capability. Only need to look how good Shurter is downhill to see that a roadie would have no chance.

A mtb rider is more likely to go to the road and be successful than the other way round. So that means you cant just get a pro roadie from Team Sky or whatever, give them an XC bike and expect them to be competitive.

You need kids from early on. I don't think we have the racing series and amount of riders needed to find the best riders. And if they get there BC comes knocking trying to get them on a road or track bike and that means theres a chance they can make a living at it.

Be interesting to see how Sagan gets on but he is from MTB anyway.

everyone - Member
xc will never be cool, its just dull to watch.
I take it you've not watched any of the world cup rounds this year then?

Been helped alot by having a battle between to of the top riders ever.

Well since even STW can't be arsed even putting up a report on the women's race what hope is there. Only mention of Olympics XC on front page is a Press Release from Rocksox.

End of the day no media coverage means no one will sponsor riders and if you were say a 19 year old and offered little more than a free mtb or alternatively full back up of the BC Track squad or Sky then it is a simple decision.

UK mtb media must take a huge share of the blame IMO.

I agree more positive media coverage would improve numbers racing. The thing is cx doesn't get any coverage either (unless the roadie media cover it?) but participation is booming apparently (only done one season myself). Guess that is due to interest at a club level?

More grass root events would be good but when regional/national events are barely breaking even I'm not sure they would survive. I'm trying to sort out organising a race with our club and it's difficult. You find a good course in a good venue, feel really positive about putting something on and then get grief from non-racers, objections raised from all sorts of areas, logistical issues and it's back to square one. It's pretty demoralising and I haven't even got to the formal application stage. Got a few other venues to explore though 😀

Xc is more interesting to watch than dh IMO.

I agree more positive media coverage would improve numbers racing. The thing is cx doesn't get any coverage either (unless the roadie media cover it?) but participation is booming apparently (only done one season myself). Guess that is due to interest at a club level?

Some good points here, think the strength of the UK road scene vs the xc means it is much easier to a talented bike rider to live full time as a road rider. Countries like Switzerland have a superstrong domestic race calendar that attracts with skill based competition for young riders and the culture of racing at a club level is much more ingrained than over here

xc is dull to watch for the average bod in the street. Its a long procession of folk on bikes riding what looks like easy courses ( cos of the tv effect)

Little in the way of overtaking battles, doesn't look spectacular. Its basically dull.

got to agree on mtb xc not being exciting to watch.

The ladies Olympic race yesterday being an example. My wife even commented it didn't look like a proper race because they (appeared to be) were riding so slow.

I am hoping the men's race will be better.

I think a few more close ups on the gnar and a bit of better commentary about how hard they were working would have helped.

It depends on the coverage, some of the world cups are quite exciting to watch because they're filmed by people who know how to film bike races.

Same with the BMX, looks dull at the Olympics, but the UCI supercross series looks great.

TBH though, even if it was lottery funded, would we be much better at it? Outside of Schruter and Albason, are there any real* pro's in XC.

Even if you could find a roadie (for the money) who can MTB well enough to podium, they wouldn't be allowed to race MTB because the road team can't risk their riders picking up uneccecary injuries.

I wonder whether it's easier to set up a cx circuit than it is to set up a xc circuit. And whether that has anything to do with it.
Personally I think that cx will continue to grow until they start pissing around with wheel sizes.

It's because the roadies need something to do in the autumn after the serious racing is over and before the Christmas break. Ditto track cyclists traditionally finish their season mid August too.

*As in factory supported, pit crew, sponsorship deals worth more than free stuff and a few quid and making a living out of it? 3rd cat domestic roadies get better deals.

I have to say the medias lack of interest in reporting on XC races has to be part of the problem.

I'm not saying wholey, because BC is results driven & the percetion is track is the best option in that respect, but not reporting on XC at all? Bit of a failure there - happy to report on DH & enduro but barely a sniff of XC...

How about a monthly round up of whose done what during the season?

We aren't all roosting the gnar in our matching enduro colourways with optional comedy facial hair...

Unfortunately the men's race has been very boring too.

Xc just isn't very spectator friendly.

I wonder whether it's easier to set up a cx circuit than it is to set up a xc circuit

Having raced XC & set up CX, I'd say CX is relatively easy to set up - all you need is a sloping field & a bit of tape. XC requires either ready made trails (so someone has been busy with a shovel) or you need someone to get out there with the shovel!

The editors clearly have no idea how many people are interested in where Sagan is 😀

I don't think it's boring but a shorter course would generate more overtakes.

Having raced XC & set up CX, I'd say CX is relatively easy to set up - all you need is a sloping field & a bit of tape. XC requires either ready made trails (so someone has been busy with a shovel) or you need someone to get out there with the shovel!

The press would be interested if we had someone doing well at international / UCI level

We do!

I think that once british cycling get hold of any promising athletes they try and get them into track, they have done so to Shaniaze Reed from bmx, and even had rachel Atherton try out on track FFS!

They just don't seem to grasp or understand any other element of the sport

Track & BMX are actually very closely related, it's not a case of nicking anyone who's half decent and saying "here's a track, you'll be riding this from now on". Good way of testing riders and by the way, Shanaze has been World Champ in both BMX and track - she actually prefers track as the chances of breaking herself are considerably reduced!

The late great Jason McRoy even had a try out on track, he was easily national standard in the team sprint although admittedly back then there was much less specialisation by riders.

One of the main issues facing the current crop of Olympic potential MTBers is the serious lack of anywhere to train. Olympic and WC MTB courses are governed by the UCI and need a certain amount of climbing per lap, x amount of technical, y amount of overtaking opportunity etc, it's all carefully controlled which is why the courses have to be man-made. They're also way more technical than the average trail centre so you can't just send riders to Afan and say "here you go, practice this" partly because it's open to the public (it'd be like practising rally driving on an open road) and partly cos it in no way replicates the courses they'd be racing on.

Track training is easy - there's one right next door to the Team GB offices...

17th For Grant

Good lad.

It doesn't help that the British commentators don't seem to know anything about mountain biking - comments about average speed, soft tails and aerodynamics #facepalm

At least Chris Hoy did a good commentary on the BMX races (probably because he used to race them - and mtb by the way).
Reading this about the lack of British cross country racers made me think about the earlier MOTO GP race that a Brit won for the first time since 1981 (Barry Sheene) and there's a lot more money in that !!

It's true BC suck a lot of riders to the track but not the only issue. If you look at when XC and DH split it seems some nations got attracted to the gravity side and others to the endurance side. Switzerland's depth of talent in XC is massive but not so in DH then look at the UK it's the opposite. Switzerland actually TV broadcast XCO world cups it's a big sport there.

Finally take a look at the British team that will be going to the DH world champs it is absolutely epic and something we should be proud of. Wish it could be and Olympic sport.

It doesn't help that the British commentators don't seem to know anything about mountain biking - comments about average speed, soft tails and aerodynamics #facepalm

I might have been listening to different commentary as I was on the iPlayer but I was hearing a South African fella and an Australian Women, don't know who these British commentators were, maybe you meant English speaking?

Quite enjoyed having the XC finals on in the background, they can ride for sure! Of course they are professionals, but I was still quite impressed.
Who won in the end?

Schurter won pretty comprehensively.

Re. The media, only coverage of GF coming 17th I could see was on the Daily Mail!

Was he the chappie on the orange spesh with blue forks? The other chappie on the hardtail was right up him when I had to stop watching.

It doesn't help that the British commentators don't seem to know anything about mountain biking - comments about average speed, soft tails and aerodynamics #facepalm

One of the main issues facing the current crop of Olympic potential MTBers is the serious lack of anywhere to train.

Disagree entirely:
1) Most of the fitness training is on the road, it's easier to be specific and minimises the risks of a season ending injury.
2) Trail centers are probably pretty close to what they race on, no other country has them quite like we do.
3) There's always DH trails if you really want something more technical to practice.

I also disagree, plenty of training options, we have loads of natural variety, Dalby was a wc course, they built a wc course at Margam that never gets used.

The main problem with producing WC level racers is that it's a very hard sport requiring fitness, skill and luck all in equal measures.

It's got too many variables that the people who pay for funding don't like. Too many things to go wrong. Most UK riders are self funded, I think there are only currently 2 full time professional MTB Elite riders in UK, Ie. get paid by a Team enough to make a living and not have to work.

The UK is also a bit of a pain in the arse to get to world class competitions week in week out, OK it's not hard to get to Europe but it's expensive if paying for it yourself every weekend, so you don't get to race against the people you need to all the time like a lot of the other nations.

Training facilities are NOT the problem, we have lots of places for athletes to train in UK. Grant is a very good technical rider, is fit enough that he could probably sign for a very good level road team if he chose to. It's just that the people in front of him are also just as good technically if not a little better, are also very fit if not a bit better etc..

Grant is 22 and will develop into a very good WC racer as long as he doesn't get lured away with the money road racing has.

I've said it many times before: BC can select a team for the workd champs etc, the team is presented to UK Sport who have the fonal say on how the money is spent i.e. Who is sent. BC can select who they want, but if this is veteoed by UKS there is nothing further they can do. Blaming everything on BC is silly, downhill took hold of their dicipline and developed it with excellent marketting and course / race development.

For UK xc racing, how many on here go ride xc and race xc races? UK courses are improving and the talent pool is increasing. BC have a very active youth and hunior development programme that seems to be turning up with the goods e.g. Current european junr champion. I am convinced BC got it very wrong leading up to London and Rio but are now focused on 2020. Ive been racing at the top level since 2005 and have seen the dicipline develop and change. To my mind the quality is improving (although it could just be me getting old) and the numbers are increasing.

Media attention: why do no magazines / general mtb websites cover mtb xc? Singletrack - any comment? I dont know. If i said i would write race reports would you be interested in printing on the website?

Anybody who thinks xc is too easy should come out for a ride with the elite riders: they are bloody fast and have to mix excellent technical skills with top end fitness. Some top roadies e.g. yanto barker did some end of season mtb events and got hammered. Their fit but mtb requires different physical attributes and lots of skill.

ernie - Member
...Media attention: why do no magazines / general mtb websites cover mtb xc? Singletrack - any comment? I dont know. If i said i would write race reports would you be interested in printing on the website?...

No offence, but I hope not.

I get SIngleTrack because to me it's about riding bikes in interesting places not speeding around play parks for a couple of hours.

I like stuff about long distance races in adverse conditions (eg the Rovaniemi, TDR, HT550) though.

They're also way more technical than the average trail centre

Nah. Remember all the comment about how easy the London course was?

No offence, but I hope not.

I get SIngleTrack because to me it's about riding bikes in interesting places not speeding around play parks for a couple of hours.

Like any article in the mag you can choose to read it or not, can't you..?

In contrast to the UK selection...
http://tis.dpac.tas.gov.au/news_items/tough_but_amazing_experience
Somebody pulled out some pics of Scotty riding a few years back in one of numerous XC events, he did well and picked up sponsorship and even downhere in isolated tassie there was at lest a summer XC series to get stuck into, A lot of the mainland racing is at least accesible with one cheap flight etc. Last year we had a raffle and donation bucket so he could go race WC's There is strong competition at that end of the Oz field and part of it is due to a very strong club culture who seem to only ever put on races. After that IMHO the tighter access laws mean that you either ride more events to access places or it concentrates riders into places. Maybe the UK's beardy hill roaming version of XC actually hurts the competitive side, many people seem to see being competitive as "just not mountain biking"
and from a few years back some local guys managed to pull together a big prize pot for a 4 day race
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3797/11037906625_49ebcedef7_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3797/11037906625_49ebcedef7_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/hPoa5V ]Start of Day 1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3715/11037920225_5fe63959f3_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3715/11037920225_5fe63959f3_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/hPoe8p ]More Day 1 start[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
There was a proper who's who of Aus/NZ racing around with it being about 5k for the winning pair in mens and womens.

There are also about 6 or 7 3-4 day XC type stage races, countless 12 & 24's a full Marathon series and XCO along with state and regional races

as long as he doesn't get lured away with the money road racing has.