[Closed] Why are complete bikes often as cheap as frame only?

The frame is their product and often only needs a shock attaching, so why the mark up on that or is the discount on parts so good they make more profit on those than their own product.

My last frame was £285 from manufacturer (Ex display) .
Retail is £500 and on their website it's £320
I'd guess the cost is between £285 and £320??? (Pure guess but I doubt they are selling at a loss)

It's to make the full bikes look a better deal.

That way the manufacturer can sell you a frame plus a whole bike load of bits that all have a mark up.

Hence orange bikes frame price Vs build price being close.

It’s to make the full bikes look a better deal.

This. It's in order to artificially drive up the perceived value of the complete bike. The company knows that you can't buy OE parts so the full bike price always looks good so they don't need many frame sales to support a product line, so why not make the frame goddamn expensive so it looks like its worth a lot?

The only exceptions being that if someone is coming to you to buy a frame, there's a reasonable chance they're a frame smasher, so you need to factor a little extra warranty into the price of a frame only, and also on the topic of warranty, a part with someone else name on it will ultimately go back to them if its faulty. One with your name on it you catch the costs for warranty, so again that has to be factored in.

Conversely, why are frames almost as expensive as complete bikes?

Because they don't want to sell just a frame, because they have purchased the same quantity of build kits as they have made/ had built frames, given this was all ordered months ago and they do not want to end up with a load of build kits that they can't use next year and have to get rid of somehow (grey market).

Good insight there Ben, I had not considered the warranty liability aspect.

There's a preference from a lot of experienced riders to buy frame only, usually because they have decent parts already and it's the lowest cost-to-change.

Some brands are clearly more interested in this business than others.

Hence orange bikes frame price Vs build price being close.

Their full bike prices are a bit nuts, so I would have argued with you - but it seems their frame prices are starting to catch up now.

We seem to be in a place now where £1.5k is considered "cheap". I can only really think of Sonder doing good frames at a genuinely affordable price (sub £1k with shock).

The only exceptions being that if someone is coming to you to buy a frame, there’s a reasonable chance they’re a frame smasher

Ha I've never smashed a frame in my life, maybe I want to build a bike with the components I want rather than what cheap bits the builder can source.

Looks like I'll buy a complete bike strip it down and sell on the bits to semi fund my own parts

I’ll buy a complete bike strip it down and sell on the bits to semi fund my own parts

I've done this many times, and in some cases the frame has worked out really cheap as a result.

Thanks everyone, prices are way way to much the sport is not really accessible and it’s easy to get caught up in thinking you need the top kit. We should make a singletrack bike, I’m sure between the lot of us there are enough engineers, cad designers, machinists; graphic designers and spray finishers. Although the arguments would be never ending

prices are way way to much the sport is not really accessible and it’s easy to get caught up in thinking you need the top kit.

Sounds like you've got caught up in thinking you need the top kit.
Plenty of great bikes around for under a grand. See Vitus' hardtails for example.

Ha I’ve never smashed a frame in my life, maybe I want to build a bike with the components I want rather than what cheap bits the builder can source.

Was it not for Covid Ben would be your man....I think the reality at the moment it is what bits the builder can source (cheap or otherwise) or lead times.

the sport is not really accessible and it’s easy to get caught up in thinking you need the top kit

Everything costs much more than it did at the start of 2016. Deal with it. In fact, grab what you can… because over the next five years the same scale of price rises will be happening again. This isn’t about bike companies ripping us off, it’s about a sinking UK. If you want to maintain the same ratio of income:prices … move now. I’m just accepting it, and running Deore where I used to run XTR… it just works. Budget components are better than ever.

I’m all for a bit of deore, I just like specing the bike for example an xt or xtr shifter with a deore mech. I never get a king headset when fsa make perfectly good ones but I would prefer xt cranks even though the advantage over deore is minimal.

So you think prices will continue to rise? Might buy those wheels I’ve been putting off buying

tails
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Thanks everyone, prices are way way to much the sport is not really accessible and it’s easy to get caught up in thinking you need the top kit.

The second, aye. The first? It's probably slightly less accessible this year just due to the huge demand for bikes meaning there's not the bargains out there that there usually are and some of the best buys are temporarily unavailable but with that aside... You can genuinely go to one shop, Go Outdoors, and find one of the best £300, £500, £750 hardtails bikes ever made, one of the best entry level full sussers too.

I bought a £350 bike in about 1996. It was really nice- tange steel frame, bontrager wheels, shimano exage throughout. Flexstem 🙂 Then in I think about 2008, I bought another £350 bike. It gained hydraulic discs and a reasonable suspension fork, at the expense of stuff like hubs and rims being less good- but it was a much better and more useful machine despite £350 in 96 being equivalent to about £500 in 2008.

Before the pandemic shortages £300'd get you a Calibre Rail, which had very similar spec to that 08 bike but better geometry and tyres. Basically slightly more capable, for slightly less in simple terms... and that £350 from 96 now being worth about £660, while would get you a Calibre Line 20 which would absolutely shit on all those others I mentioned.

It's only the temporary spike in demand and some challenges for manufacturing that have set things back but pretty much every year since the 80s, whatever year your in has been the year when riding was most accessible.

Similar to the reason for aftermarket pricing on Sram being high - makes complete bikes with Sram seem good value. Sram make most of their money on OEM and so makes them more attractive to product managers - esp with the Rockshox tie in.

Planet X are a classic example in the disconnect between frame price and full build, are you seriously telling me it costs them £200 more to build and paint a 29" Jack Flash over the raw 26"?

Price difference between a Bootzipper frame and complete is £300, and costs the same whether you want forks or not.

Similar to the reason for aftermarket pricing on Sram being high – makes complete bikes with Sram seem good value. Sram make most of their money on OEM and so makes them more attractive to product managers – esp with the Rockshox tie in.

I'd argue that Sram also make a killing on replacement cassettes with so many bikes coming with GX and above.