what do you think? and show us a picture.
😀
belt drive: my next expensive fettle.
i'm just getting my hands on one in the next few weeks. 😉
I saw this exact bike at the Bristol Bespoke Bike show recently
[img] 
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I reckon a s/h inbred 29er frame with slotted dropouts and a hacksaw would be a good start. Or maybe find an elevated stay frame first?
My Kona A:
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5505132039_c3a0b8a3aa_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ir_bandito/5505132039/ ]DSC_0406[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/ir_bandito/ ]ir_bandito[/url], on Flickr
Just got some new dropouts made for it so I can wind a bit more belt tension in, and am using 10mm bolt in, rather than qr, to stiffen the rear end.
Its also getting some Maverick SC32 forks, but that's irrelavnt. Should be rebuilt next week...
Search the forum for my stories of woe when building it.
Oh yeah, forgot to say. Its ace 🙂
Not yet, but I'm seriously considering something like this Nicolai Argon 29er Rohloff in a brighter colour for commuting.
[img] 
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I would love to convert to belt drive. It would mean a hub gear too so it could get a bit expensive.
When you look at bike chains they really are so old fashioned, mechs and gears are even more so.
We need to move on a bit, I just wish I had a frame that would take-it.
Im convinces in a few years time all bikes will be made this way.
Our children (maybe grand children) will laugh at derailiers and chains.
I just wish I had a frame that would take-it
Once i'm happy with the A, that's my plan...
By the way, check out Milk Bikes, and for a fairly comprehensive directory, [url] http://beltbik.es/ [/url]
[i]Our children (maybe grand children) will laugh at derailiers and chains[/i]
I suspect not, given the efficiency of the chain drive. They may laugh at us for many other reasons though, not least the seriousness with which we debate bicycles.
Bandito,
I dont follow you, probably me being stupid. Am I right in thinking the chain-stay has to be 'unboltable' to get the belt on?
Am I right in assuming theres not a way of joining a toothed belt, they are used in industry for all sorts. Surely someone has devised a way of joining?
Could be an opening there.
Barbus, that's it.
The frame must have some way of splitting to fit the belt, or have an elevated chain stay.
''They may laugh at us for many other reasons though, not least the seriousness with which we debate bicycles''.
Its serious stuff.!
Yep, chain/seat stays have to have a split somewhere, There's various ways of doing it, but I have an idea that so far no-one else has done 🙂
The A, being a suspension linkage, is easily unboltable, but unlike most suspension frmaes, the main pivot is concentric with the BB so there's no chagne in chain/belt-length. the belt can't be bent "backwards" so it can't be conventionally tensioned, except by increasing effective chainstay length.
Orange made a prototype full-sus bike with a similar arrangement. It also has an Alfine 8, but uses an industry standard 8mm belt, rather than the Gates Carbon Drive 11mm. Its owned by the guy who runs my local shop.
Belts are less tolerant of misalignment than chains too.
That's why Gates will only supply them as part of a complete bike once the manufacturer has satisfied them there isn't too much flex in their frame design.
Some people seem to have got round this somehow though to build one offs.
Oh, and the supposed required tension required to keep it on, means an E-stay bike would have to be bonkers (technical term) stiff.
That said, Epicyclo of this forum, and myself, run belt tension at pretty much the same as you would chain tension.
MTG,
Thanks, Thats what I thought.
How does it perform, is mud/flying stones a problem?
looks great by the way.
I want one.!
Belts are less tolerant of misalignment than chains too
the new Centre-Track system should help with this one. Its been my manin problem with the A conversion.
Can you tell this is my pet subject? 😉
How does it perform
It's not mine, I haven't got a belt drive bike yet.
It's just a picture I found of pretty much what I'm thinking of building.
Mine's great. Except the belt slips off too much, which hopefully the next upgrade will fix...
Don't be so coy, ir_bandito. Let's see what you're doing.
Has anyone got any proper figures for the increased drag of a belt compared to a chain ?
Better or worse than a Rohloff compared to derailleurs ?
Bandito,
Once you have ironed out the teething problems you will have one hell of a bike there.
Keep going.
Oh, and the supposed required tension required to keep it on, means an E-stay bike would have to be bonkers (technical term) stiff.
Like this?:
[img] 
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[img] 
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Personally I think an E Stay with an EBB is a great way to do belt drive...
ooh, that Sycip looks purdy...
You'd soon find out if it wasn't stiff enough. When the belt slips, it makes a helluva bang.
Not convinced by EBBs though, had a couple and I'm not the biggest fan.
From what I've heard, the problem is that road grit/sand/muck/small stones are easily caught up into the belt drive, then ground into it when it rotates about the socket and rings - making it a much less long-term commuter friendly option.
Confirm/Deny?
grit/sand/muck/small stones are easily caught up into the belt
When mine briefly worked, it had no problems round the local woods. My grand plan is to get it working and see how it genuinly copes with (british) off-road conditions.
I've just been looking on http://nicolai.net/ and I can't find the prices for the belt drive stuff.
I'm sure it used to be there and I think a pair of pulleys and a belt added up to about £120.
A pair of sprockets and a chain is about £60, so it's worth considering for a commute bike, depending on the component life.
That's the problem though, as it's a newish thing for bikes, it's hard finding real world experiences to compare durability and drag.
[url= http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/downloads/Carbon_Drive_Product_List.pdf ]Parts list here[/url]
although doesn't have prices. (but it does shoe limited size of pulleys and belts). Somewhere I've got a pricelist, although they'll have changed a bit now.
email info@carbondrive.net for european sales.
Mrs Nicolai is most helpful. It cost me about 230 euro, including expensive delivery from germany for the belt and 2 pulleys. and then the next-to-usless snubber cost another 30, with another 30 for delivery...
I've been looking at belt drive / concentric bb pivot frames. hopefully my next project
Has anyone got one of the 29er norco judan bikes? Full build was about £1300 and came with the beltdrive as standard.
Mine's great. Except the belt slips off too much...
You should be an engineer. 😉
MTG - are you just going for the crown of 'most niches in one bike'?!
Belt, Lefty, Rohloff... 🙂
Not a fan of belt drives personally at the present time. However, timing belts in infernal combustion engines have annihilated timing chains so who knows what the future holds.
You should be an engineer. 😉
He was :-p
[img] 
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got one of these...no trouble with last winter on the road....obviously doesn't take the pasting a mountain bike takes...
Are there any long term reviews of belt drives out there ?
Not press releases or magazine reviews, but opinions from people who have paid for it with their own money and ridden it for a few months.
Not press releases or magazine reviews, but opinions from people who have paid for it with their own money and ridden it for a few months.
Think there might have been a few people who have ridden round the world on belt drives. Worth a google if you're interested.
Here we go, I found the prices.
£170 for the belt and two pulleys plus another £35 for the snubber, then another £28 for the special tools.
Edit;
The link seems to be too long to work embedded.
Try copy & pasting this.
http://builder.nicolai.dbap.de/index.php?screen=dstore.config&fid=42&step=4&modell=&is_mcheck0=1&mammount0_1=1&mcheck0_1=1862&mammount0_2=&mammount0_3=&mammount0_4=&mammount0_5=&mammount0_6=&is_mcheck1=1&mammount1_1=&mammount1_2=&mammount1_3=&mammount1_4=&mammount1_5=&mammount1_6=&mammount1_7=1&mcheck1_7=1910&mammount1_8=&mammount1_9=&mammount1_10=&mammount1_11=&mammount1_12=&mammount1_13=&mammount1_14=&mammount1_15=&mammount1_16=&is_mcheck2=1&mammount2_1=1&mcheck2_1=1864&mammount2_2=&mammount2_3=&mammount2_4=&is_mcheck3=1&mammount3_1=1&mammount3_2=&mammount3_3=1&mcheck3_3=1901&mammount3_4=1&mcheck3_4=1919&mammount3_5=1&mcheck3_5=1983&mammount3_6=&mammount3_7=&mammount3_8=
@Brabus and MTQG, With regard to the 'e-stay' requirement or similar, how about a replaceable dropout which completes the right hand triangle? Whyte use a similar thing to adjust either wheelbase or chain tension when used as a singlespeed. like this:
[url= 
]linky[/url]
take away part of the vertical section between the two sets of bolts, using the dropout as part of the frame. For belt removal, wheel out,unbolt dropout.
I've seen people do that. seems the easiest way to me but most seem to have a split in the seat stay.
saw a couple of belt drive bikes at SSWC yesterday.
I have a Trek District, been very happy with it as an everyday bike.
timing belts in infernal combustion engines have annihilated timing chains
Rumours goes that as car manufacturers are moving back to using chains, Gates looked for a different market to get involved in...
You should be an engineer.
He was
plrrppp... to Jon 😉
And I am, hence redsisigning components to modify a bike to suit a different purpose.
Oh, a bit of an aside, check out ecovelo.org for a blog on general utility bikes, including belt-drives and Alfines.
I'm seriously considering getting a belt drive bike, but they don't make it easy, do they ?
Van Nicholas do a Zion 29er, but they only list the 26er for belt drive. I'v emailed them to ask if there's likely to be a belt drive 29er soon.
I did a search for Zion on here and I found a warranty replacement one for sale.
It was shortly after searching and finding two warranty replacement Lynskey frames on here that my own Lynskey cracked, so that's not a good omen. 🙁
Nicolai do a 29er Argon for Rohloff & Gates. £1275 for an aluminium hardtail frame though. That's more money than a titanium Lynskey or Van Nic for a heavier frame. It's also £100 more than the same frame on the German website.
There's nothing on the UK site about belt drives and not much on the German site either. No mention of the new centre drive. I had to cross reference with Gates' own site for advice on gear ratios and belt length.
No mention of Lefty either, although there's pictures of at least two Argon Leftys on the web.
Maybe they just haven't updated the website and if I contacted Nicolai UK directly they could answer all my questions.
An interesting read...
[url= http://www.canyon.com/_en/technology/project144-2.html ]here[/url]
Just get a normal ss frame and get the seatstay split by a frame builder.
crundi - Member
An interesting read...
here
no it wasnt 😉
Just get a normal ss frame
Not all "normal" frames are laterally stiff enough to keep the belt aligned...
What bandito says the frame needs to be stiff enough I have a belt drive set up for sale in classifieds if anyone interested
Al: Just get a normal ss frameBandito: Not all "normal" frames are laterally stiff enough to keep the belt aligned...
They are if you add spoon and candle wax bracing spars...
so you want a mrk1 santa cruz chameleon then.
Van Nicholas emailed me back.
They'd want an extra £440 as a custom build on top of the normal frame price for a belt drive ready Zion 29er with a Lefty head tube.
Nicolai list the parts and prices for all the belt drive stuff on their website, but they don't mention the sprocket adapter needed for Rohloff, there's no advice on which belt length is needed and they don't say whether it's the older style belt or the newer centre track.
It's as if they're trying to put people off buying it.
At £1275 for a hardtail aluminium frame, that's 3 times the price of a Chumba HX2, I'm finding it hard to justify buying an Argon.
Maybe when the winter comes and I'm adjusting my chain every day, I'll change my mind though.
Ringo, you need to specify the belt length so I can work out what chainstay length it will suit.
The adjustable dropout system on the Whytes mentioned previously is the best system I've come across, but could not be modified for a belt drive, as the chainstay/seatstay is welded to form a complete triangle. The plate dropout just covers it.
Interested to know how you get on MTQG. This is the way forward I reckon.
(cough)hacksaw 😉
For commuting I would love Genesis to do the day one alfine in an 11 speed belt drive spec. That would be the ideal commuting bike for me. With full guards it would be perfect. Slightly heavy but the weight isn't an issue.
Please make one Genesis, thank you.
its a 118 belt greaham so around 450mm stays
does anyone else do belt drive parts? they seem a little expensive to be experimenting with at the moment
Nope not in the same league as gates my kits a cheapish way to try 😉
The [url=
prototype[/url] uses standard 8mm pitch belts rather than expensive Gates Carbon drive