[Closed] Which steel bike?

Are you sure the Orange is orange? I thought the P7 is black this year? And the Altitude is cherry red.

extra £100 for it sprayed orange by orange and deal might of fineshed but could get rims sprayed matchin coulor free 🙂

[i]Are you sure the Orange is orange? I thought the P7 is black this year? And the Altitude is cherry red.[/i]

It looks like the standard colour is black, but under options you're able to choose a custom colour which costs £100 extra, hence the price going up to £1100 - whether I can actually get one in orange is another matter I suppose.

The Altitude 10 is cherry red and a bit cheaper, presumably as it's made from Reynolds 520 steel and has a different fork, although the rest of the spec is the same.

Looking at it again I suppose the main difference between the P7 and the Altitude 20 is the fork and frame material...

It's looking more and more like the charge duster, shame it's black.

I've got a charge duster that was orginally the rigid version but i put some Fox Talas RL's on the front and it is a wicked bike, ive done downhill, to XC races, to Dirt jumps on it and i got away with it :-). the ride feel is really good as it is a bit more springy than an aluminium framed hardtail.

Although both of the others are quite tempting espcially the genesis

Only just noticed your reply, cheers for the info...

I'm erring towards the charge, mind me asking what weight your's comes in at?

Go for the 853 Altitude. Best frame material going, apart from Ti or mad stuff like 953 stainless. Light, strong, very corrosion resistant, gives a lovely ride, and is perfect for upgrading any lower cost components at a later date. I love cherry red as a colour as well. What's not to like? I do have an 853 frame, and it's a lovely bike to ride. Mine is SS and rigid, but it's the material that's important.

[i]I love cherry red as a colour as well[/i]

Unfortunatley the cherry red altitude isn't 853.

Whilst I was erring towards the charge, the altitude 20 is still right up there. Is there really much difference between 853 and Tange Prestige?

On-one 456 full build just over £1k. Love mine, would get a direct replacement if it ever broke.

[i]On-one 456 full build just over £1k. Love mine, would get a direct replacement if it ever broke.[/i]

One thing I have considered is a 456 or PA built with a £1000 worth of components; I've even started to consider buying the Genesis Abyss\Core 40 and using the components for the build, then using the Abyss\Core frame to replace my other hardtail frame...

What kit did you build with?

the weight must be around 27 to 29 lbs, iv'e never actually weighed it but in compraison to full sussers and hardtails its not to bad. i wouldn't say it was a race pedigree bike but it is a bit of a do anything one if thats what you are looking for.

i have built it up myself with Fox Talas Rl's on the front for more sitffness and to be a bit more responsive than the stock forks, ive also put widder sunlione V3 on for better steering etc. hope that helps 🙂

any reason it has to be steel? as the Boardman Pro for £1K would be high on my list if you want a light (24lb) fast good bike, but it is Al.

Pipedream Sirius is £200 for the frame. Lovely they are too.

I have just taken delivery of our new Brodie Catalyst bikes, and rather nice they are too!

Details here [url] http://www.progressive-bikes.co.uk/catalyst.html [/url]

Orange P7 - its a classic.

rock lobster 853? Even with a respray it'll come in under budget, plus merlin will be able to tailor your build.

My 853 was a really nice ride, have regretted selling it every day since

[IMG] [/IMG]

Another Charge fan here, although I got it frame only, don't know if that uses a 'better' steel or not.

I think the only significant advantage of the charge over the others is the tyre clearance, its huge. Which means you can run really fat tyres and turn it into a cornering machine!

With 4" forks it still descends big rocky steep stuff like an XC hardtail though, slightly bruising!

Last months MBR did a 456, altitude 20, p7, charge duster review/comparison

The p7 had the Vanilla upgrade pushing the price uo to 1150, I think

Any way there thoughts were

Duster too short, stock stem tool long. All a bit subjective

456 and Genesis good. The 456 being more comfy

The p7 best of the lot. Due to riding position and fork

This could all be bull but it maybe worth paying for a download from their website. It had a fair amount of objective stuff in like measurements

hmmm, if you stick a 5" travel fork on the charge they run pretty well over technical stuff, although they are not as burly as say the Dialled aline, which is what i am hopefully getting this summer as it is more of an all-mountain machine 🙂

OP - "Is there really much difference between 853 and Tange Prestige? "

yes, prestige is simply thin wall cr-mo, like 520. it's available in a heat-treated version too, prestige JPN, which is basically the same as Reynolds 725. 853 is an air-hardening steel with much higher strength. You can buy Reynlds 520 / Taiwanese cr-mo in the same sections as prestige. prestige has a great rep but it's mainly due to some great bikes being made from it years back. If Reynolds marketed their tubes better, 520 cr-mo in the 0.8/0.5/0.8mm section would be seen as a prestige equivalent, since it basically is.

Good point James-o. The thing is I have frames made of both and they ride near enough the same...

Don't fall for the frame tubing being the key consideration. A frame with good design is what you need. The exact tubing is secondary.

(And in fact, I'd ask why steel only up for consideration - alu, ti or carbon can feel very similar depending on how they're put together.

Very useful James

I thought tange "Prestge" meant heat treat.

Cheers

John

sure, tube section, material, use and geometry are all interlinked. i have 520 frames that ride better than ti customs, honestly ) they're a tad heavier, sure, but ride feel means more to me than a bit of weight.

steel alloys all have the same modulus and density too, so it's perfectly possible to make a frame out of 2 different steels that ride very similar. ie, 853 is not lighter / stiffer as a material, but it can make a lighter frame.

but overall, tube diameter makes the biggest difference. it's normal with steel and ti to achieve adequate strength (pre EN tests anyway) before optimum stiffness is achieved. ie, very roughly, a frame using 28.6 dia TT/DT with 1.2/0.7/1.2 section can be similar in durability to a 34.9 with thinner walls, but the thinner wall / larger dia will be stiffer at a similar weight. going up or down a grade in wall thickness on a TT or DT makes about 2oz difference only, but can make a big difference in tracking on fast, rough sections.

[i]any reason it has to be steel? as the Boardman Pro for £1K would be high on my list if you want a light (24lb) fast good bike, but it is Al.[/i]

I suppose quite simply because I haven't had a steel bike and quite fancy one, bit like I'd rather have a snazzy colour, over the years my bikes have been silver, cream, matt black, graphite and white.

Apart from not being steel boardman bikes aren't an option on our b2w scheme as I think they're only available from Halfords. Having said that they look great bikes.

The info on this thread is\has been great and providing food for thought...

Cheers,

james-o

I did know that 853 like all steel has the same stiffness. Apoorly reported fact IMHO

the my prejudice for heat treated prestige is based areound how much better my mates Explosif road than kileau. Both had the geometry and tube diameters. So his was thinner and more flexible but some how felt better. More comfy and compliant I suppose

John