[Closed] Which 29er to replace a ti 'all mountain' 26" hardtail?

Yelli Screamy, Nimble 9, Quarterhorse, Buzzard, Honza & titus fireline.

Kingdom Bike Project Legion?

Transition TransAm 29? 68 degs head angle, upto 140mm forks, great write ups from what I can tell.

Niner ROS9, Banshee Paradox, Ragley Bigwig, Genesis High Latitude, Kona Tora

Kona Raijin 29er Ti loveliness if you can get hold of one which I was lucky enough to do ! 😀

I think you need to think carefully about why your "everyday riding is better suited to clown wheels". What is it that you are looking for (more speed?) and what are you prepared to sacrifice to get it (less playful feel?).

ooh...Kona Raijin is bloody lovely. Buy one Pimp, then give it to me when you realise you don't want it...

<hijack> What height are you and what size is the Holeshot? </hijack>

+1 for the 'why do you want to change ?' crew

I think you need to think carefully about why your "everyday riding is better suited to clown wheels". What is it that you are looking for (more speed?) and what are you prepared to sacrifice to get it (less playful feel?).

[i]What do want to achieve?[/i] More straight line speed, more momentum when up to speed, some added comfort on small bump hits (such as ripples in edge of field singletrack or horse-churn on regularly used bridleways).

[i]What am I prepared to sacrifice?[/i] Some 'playfulness'. Some slow-speed handling and technical ability. I intend to get that back with a 160mm susser, which will also be used on 'proper hill' duties.

<hijack> What height are you and what size is the Holeshot? </hijack>

A gnat's whisker under 6ft, 32"-ish inside leg. Frame is a 2011 L (18.5"), pre-ISCG mounts but otherwise identical to the frame currently on sale from Brodie.

http://www.brodiebikes.com/2013/bikes/holeshot_ti.php
http://www.brodiebikes.com/2012/bikes/holeshot_ti.php

It's life with me is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/sets/72157628117373679/

Ti Pegasus or Buzzard #singularfanboi

You prefer 'aggressive trails' but you are looking for 'added comfort' on small bumps?

That's just bonkers.

I give it a month and the marketing men will have you convinced a 650b is what you need.

If it was me, I'd be going for a buzzard.

I too am confused, aggressive trails but good for field side "single track" and bridle ways, don't usually come in the same sentence.

But all of the above mentioned are good, may I throw in a Kinesis FF29 with 120mm forks just for something different

[i]More straight line speed[/i]

pedal harder for longer....

Nice Brodie, how much?

Scandal.

Pimp, I went from a Brodie Ti Holeshot to a Cotic Solaris. Never regretted it.

I liked the Holeshot but never loved it. I always found it was perfect for short, sharp, technical routes/loops but when taken on longer rides I always ended up feeling a little 'beat up' and grumbling mid-ride that I needed something more suitable.

The Solaris has been a great trail bike that can comfortable cover miles as well.

sold ti456, bought titus fireline evo, loving it when my nicolai's injured....

QH, the bestest geared hardtail I have ever ridden, makes me grin like a proper eejit too.

River pig, why does he need to think so carefully for a 29er? And why not thinking so carefully about a 26er?

And as much as I love, love LOVE my Brodie Holeshot, it's soon going to be on the classified.

Kenesis Maxlight sync, basically a more aggressive Ti version of the ff29.

Will you please stop talking about that Sync? 😉 I was going to buy one but got an itchy trigger finger and bought an FF29 instead but still really fancy one...

Cotic Solaris here. Only on 100mm forks rides better than my old orange P7 on 140mm forks. Surrey Hills generally. Just don't get silly flexy wheels whatever you do! Arch's have good reviews. I have crossmax's.

Will you please stop talking about that Sync?

You prefer 'aggressive trails' but you are looking for 'added comfort' on small bumps?

That's just bonkers.

Ah, the STW pedants. Here are the lines in between the ones you're reading.

I like more 'aggressive' trails, but they are limited where I live. There are more field edges riding out of the door better suited to a 29er (hence the reason for this thread) but I'd still like to still have fun on the less tame trails in the area. You could argue I don't need to change my bike, but you could also argue I'm looking at a more efficient tool for a particular job.

I give it a month and the marketing men will have you convinced a 650b is what you need.

I've only just caught onto these new 29er things, but all I know is that I MUST HAVE ONE! My years working in marketing have caught me unawares - this is truly an insidious campaign of utmost deviancy! 😛

Oops - DP.

I always found it was perfect for short, sharp, technical routes/loops but when taken on longer rides I always ended up feeling a little 'beat up' ...

That pretty much sums up my experience. It really is a blast in technical environments and I'm not sure I've ever owned a more outright fun bike from that point of view, but it gets a little harsh on longer rides. I guess it's all about tools for the job.

Another "my bike is great (and I have no idea what any other bikes are like" comment - I picked up a Trek Stache 8 the other week from the Bike Factory in Chester. Worth putting into the decision making mix.

Well, it sounds like my local riding and preserve few are much like yours. I've got a Buzzard and I'm 100% confident it's more 'fun' than the more XC-orientated alternatives (I have an SS Inbred 29er for that stuff). I've yet to ride it on a full-day epic but I reckon it would be fine. Top tube is short but doesn't really feel it with the wide bars the bike deserves.

If you lean more towards the fun side of the compromise then I think your best options are Canfield, 2Souls, Honzo, Taro, Buzzard, that new Niner and the Cromag. Have I missed any?

I hope this doesn't come across as confrontational. It's not meant to be. If you want a 29er then go for it, but I'd have to say that your list of what you want and what you are prepared to give up just reads like a list of what you think will be the pros and cons of a 29er, but doesn't really fit in with your other comments. For example, your opening statement was that it must be Fun with a capital F, but then you say that you are happy to sacrifice playfulness.

As I say, I'm not trying to pick a fight and wobbliscott this isn't an anti 29er thing either. I'd have exactly the same comment if the OP wanted to switch from a 29er to a 26" or 650b. It's just about being honest with yourself about what you want as that's the best way to pick the right bike.

Is the PA 29er available now? I loved the ride of my Love/Hate, would have kept it had it not been training-wheel size.

Nobody seems to have mentioned Trek Stache, that backs off a bit from the short/slack geometry though, as an owner of a Yelli Screamy I wouldn't do that. The 'extreme' bikes aren't actually extreme, they're fun.

As Cheez says I see no reason why these bikes wouldn't be good for longer rides too, they come up a bit high and short compared to an XC bike, which is quite comfy actually!

Chromag Rootdown would be my choice to replace something like the Brodie holeshot...

However if your riding is too tame for the Brodie I would be looking at something more XC biased like a Scandal, On-One/Planet-X Carbon thing, Genesis Latitude/Fortitude or even an Inbred.

Keep the brodie and buy one of the cheap Scandal/Inbred builds on On-One?

I hope this doesn't come across as confrontational. It's not meant to be. If you want a 29er then go for it, but I'd have to say that your list of what you want and what you are prepared to give up just reads like a list of what you think will be the pros and cons of a 29er, but doesn't really fit in with your other comments. For example, your opening statement was that it must be Fun with a capital F, but then you say that you are happy to sacrifice playfulness.

Heh! No, it came across as the usual STW fault picking. 😉 But you're right - there is an element of contradiction in there. What I could have phrased better is that there are more 'aggressive' 29ers out there now, which is probably where I'd be looking - a midway point between a down-and-out XC hardtail and something with 'freeride' in the name - that's where the Fun comes in, and where I think the PA fits perfectly. However, I do think bigger wheels here on the sarf coast are probably a better tool for the job, which is where the 29er comes in. But, and there is a but, I have and still do aim to get an 'all mountain / enduro' susser to replace the one sold a while back, as I do go riding in bigger mountains, as well as play at places like Aston Hill (and there's some fun tracks round this way too). To me it makes sense to have a bike that works well locally, and one for when the local bike would realistically be out of its depth.

Re. changing wheel size, believe me - I've thought about it. Lord knows I have enough spare 26" tyres to make it something not undertaken lightly.

Is the PA 29er available now?

Keep the brodie and buy one of the cheap Scandal/Inbred builds on On-One?

Well, it sounds like my local riding and preserve few are much like yours. I've got a Buzzard and I'm 100% confident it's more 'fun' than the more XC-orientated alternatives (I have an SS Inbred 29er for that stuff).

Not one I knew about, but the Buzzard does look a bit good...

Dialled had a PA 29er prototype up for sale I saw.

Another "my bike is great (and I have no idea what any other bikes are like" comment - I picked up a Trek Stache 8 the other week from the Bike Factory in Chester. Worth putting into the decision making mix.

Another one I'd not considered - thanks.

Dialled had a PA 29er prototype up for sale I saw.

I think it's gone now.

That's a proper good idea, certainly until I can shift the kit on the Brodie onto something that bounces at both ends.

The only problem is once youv'e got used to a 29HT, you'll be wondering on the merits of a 29FS

I did, got a tallboy Ltc now and it's fantastic!!

****, just googled Kinesis Maxlight Sync 😯 That looks like a very nice trail 29er. The Ti 29er version of the Ti Holeshot maybe?

I must admit, like Candodavid, having mainly used the Solaris since last September, over and above my expensive carbon 26" FS (various reasons for this, weather/conditions, local loop, time, etc, etc.) I find myself drawn to a Spesh Stumpy FSR Expert Evo 29 as an amalgamation of both bikes.

A Jones will handle anything we have on the south coast - and if you're good enough, just about anywhere else too.

The only problem is once youv'e got used to a 29HT, you'll be wondering on the merits of a 29FS

just googled Kinesis Maxlight Sync That looks like a very nice trail 29er. The Ti 29er version of the Ti Holeshot maybe?

A Jones will handle anything we have on the south coast - and if you're good enough, just about anywhere else too.

FFS, if anyone posts a pic of this...

[img] [/img]

Sync I'll be hard pressed not to start considering them again.
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Oh.

So you can see why I keep on about it now 😉

OH, I think I've got it now 🙂

Based on all that I don't think I would recommend the Kinesis FF29, which is what I have (along with a 26" full suss). There that's not so STW is it 🙂 The FF29 is certainly fast in a straight line and if you are willing to give up a bit of playfulness it does kind of fit the bill (with 120mm forks). But I still think you'd be happier on something a little less XC; a little slower maybe, but a little more fun.

The Sync may fit the bill, but the specs for that on the Kinesis web site are confusing. It mentions is being a bit slacker than the FF29 (ideal) but the numbers don't bear that out.

What about the new Niner ROS9 or Yelli Screamy ?

Beautiful as the Sync is it's not quite there with the slack/short geometry that makes a fun 29er fun IMO.

If it was I'd probably buy one.

What about the new Niner ROS9 or Yelli Screamy ?

That sounds like an excuse for a pikcher!

[img] [/img]

They are, however, twice the price of a Buzzard for near identical geometry and a small weight saving. Hard to justify.

The PA29er seems a heavy handed answer to moving toward something a bit mincier. I really liked my PA, and the other one I had but it's a burly frame. The bigger version will be quite similar and there and more comfortable frames out there. My Blue Pig X is nicer in many ways to the PAs I had; more comfy, more clearance, routing options, 44mm headtube, bigger seat-tube, slackness etc. I would be very keen to check out the BigWig on this basis.

However you've got a lovely frame, I would get some lighter weight XC wheels like some Hope/Crests. Cheap atm:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-hoops-pro2-evo-mtb-wheelset/

Best of both mince & gnarr, swap your hoops aboot as needed and keep hold of that ti beauty.

Aren't 29ers dead now with this 650bee27.5er business?

The only problem is once youv'e got used to a 29HT, you'll be wondering on the merits of a 29FS

Unfortunately I am now in that situation....

While I have a limited experience of 29er, so can only tell you how mine (Whyte 929) feels compared to my 26-er', I like the feel of trail bikes not XC. So a slackish bike was my target, something with a HA around 68 (which does not feel comparably slack as a 26er IMHO).
I wanted it to be fun, but I'm no riding pro, and most of my riding is classic XC stuff, but even on climbs I prefer the whole 'wobble around' ride that blast up at warp speed.
With an adjustable chainstay, I would echo a comment elsewhere that a really short (425mm in my case) chainstay make the wheel feel like it up your ar$e, and something around 440, is a very classic XC feel. Though the closer you get to the 425 (430 in my case), make the bike feels livelier (I know there more to frame geo, but that my basic take on it).
So to me, the numerous recommendation for a classic angled, long 29er's, do not make for a 'fun' bike (on one inbred... really?). That said a big heavy lump of a frame (Honzo jumps to mind) with all the right angles was not for me either, and the like of the Yelli/quarterhorse being more 'bike' than I need.
Of course there's the whole frame material angle too, I had thought my ali 929 was quite subtle, until it dried up and no matter how much more give a 29er wheel has, mines a very stiff frame.
Feel free to flame my limited experience..

ps: The Buzzard does look a very interesting frame, going by my thoughts above

However you've got a lovely frame, I would get some lighter weight XC wheels like some Hope/Crests.

The Buzzard does look a very interesting frame, going by my thoughts above

DP

Gratuitous Buzzard pic...

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/8750511458_abc4e32c3a_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/8750511458_abc4e32c3a_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/74453744@N08/8750511458/ ]Singular Buzzard 006[/url]

I also have no 29er experience, other than with the Whyte 929 that I got in March. Awesome bike, good at everything and best with chainstays at their shortist IMO. It's an ideal 2nd bike to a 160 full-susser.
I have to say I've been struggling to see what the specific advantages of the big wheels are. I admit, I felt obliged to get a 29er when looking for a hardtail, another victim of the marketing hype. I'm glad I did though because its a well sorted bike. Hard to get but I hear next year's bikes may be available soon.

They are, however, twice the price of a Buzzard for near identical geometry and a small weight saving. Hard to justify

Yeah, but they are lighter and they don't have a braze on for the front derailleur on the wrong side of the seat tube 🙂 And they come in cool colours. You can't put a price on that. Oh, actually, it looks as though you can and it's £400 😮

yeah for sure, I have a Yelli, I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting one, the reviews and pitch for it are spot on. but for the kind of mere mortal for whom four hundred quid matters, is a Yelli worth 2 Buzzards? Nah.

Fair point and I wouldn't want to trivialize £400, but it's not really two Buzzards is it? Once you look at the full build price that £400 extra on the frame may not look so bad, especially if you've scored a good deal on the forks or something.

But getting back to the point. How many 29ers are there with head angles around 68 degrees at 120mm and chainstays under 430mm ?

Dno, it's all subjective.

Side by side, if price wasn't a factor, I'd take a Yelli. Just I always feel in these chats, for the sake of balance, I should disclose I paid more for my second hand Yelli Screamy (unwarrantied of course) than the cost of a new warrantied Buzzard. Personally I don't care, I enjoy riding it, but if buying today, at that budget, I'd likely buy a Buzz.

The initial drawings of the Buzzard made it look, to my eyes, 'burly'. I don't do hucks I don't need a burly bike. In the flesh though, it doesn't look or ride that way (from a fairly brief ride).

You pays yer money you ...

How many 29ers are there with head angles around 68 degrees at 120mm and chainstays under 430mm ?

Not many!

What I like about the Yelli is it's not trying to please all the people. It's like the Canfield bros said "sod the mass market let's make the bike we want to ride", and came out with a great design because of that. Other frames like the Solaris, Stache etc and so on feel a bit of a compromise on that basis, for no benefit either in my eyes.

Horses -> courses, of course!

I hate to say it, but I think the Singular is also better looking than a Yelli...

Its not the prettiest that's for sure and I'm another yelli owner but however much I get new bike itis that all disappears as soon as I ride it. I've dithered about chopping it in for a buzzard purely for aesthetic purposes, but I'm concerned about the prospect of replacing it with something that doesn't ride as well and being left with buying the same thing again at the full price. For what it's worth here is mine, forks soon to be replaced with Pikes or Trace depending on which boat gets here first!

[IMG] [/IMG]

yeah the slightly bent seat tube is a bit more graceful, and the Yelli suffers from the direct mount FM block and a bit of a weld fest around the BB area to accommodate the straight seat tube

I quite like mine in stealth mode though, it was better with black bars. May get rid if the FM mount.

however much I get new bike itis that all disappears as soon as I ride

yup

That orange buzzard looks nice. The yelli seems to have been smashed and squashed with the ugly hammer, looks bloody awful!

Jeff Jones - of course I would say that - but Worland and Kesteven (and Chipps) and Davis all have good things to say about them. Wanna test ride? Works better than pics and specs and forum exchanges. Rigid (but not) so it's frame and forks - old school frameset notions :O)

ugly bikes FTW

Frank The Welder?

I'm intrigued Biff, but it could be a bit difficult as I'm on the Isle of Wight. Otherwise i'd love to try one.

If you think we can sort something out, definitely drop me a line at pimpmasterjazz at yahoo dot com.

[url= http://www.brodiebikes.com/2013/bikes/cruzado_ti.php ]Brodie Cruzado 29er?[/url]

Oops - DP

is that the next step up from "oops wrong hole." 😉

😳

Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

A gnat's whisker under 6ft, 32"-ish inside leg. Frame is a 2011 L (18.5"), pre-ISCG mounts but otherwise identical to the frame currently on sale from Brodie

Damn - my 19" Soul is as small as I'd go at 6'1" - don't think I'll be making you an offer.

A third raw finish bike in the shed would have been nice, though....

Edit - some lovely pics on that Flickr

Neil - I dropped you a mail with my thoughts on the Solaris. You're welcome to come and ride mine if you fancy a pilgrimage to way out west 😉 Be nice to catch up...

PJ - I've emailed you. Jones test rides are possible. Anyone do email me, biff@yesweareontheweb.com, and STW - I've emailed you about an advert :OP

@honourablegeorge Damn - my 19" Soul is as small as I'd go at 6'1" - don't think I'll be making you an offer.

A third raw finish bike in the shed would have been nice, though....

If I went Solaris I'd go for a large, looking at the numbers. And on that note, the Holeshot has a effective TT of 24.2". Not that I'm looking to sway you or nuffing... 😉

Al / Biff - thanks for your emails.

I might be breaking some rules but this video has some lovely slow-mo in it for people pondering 29er trail manners...

Wayne has some riding sorted at Glentress saturday for anyone in the area, Jones and Surly and some fat wheel variations

- bit far for you Pimpmaster :O)

And Richard @ STW - yes - just need to sort my destination url :O)

I dunno. It's only a days drive up the M1. 😉