Right, so I know how to set up and tune a rear derailleur (at least I think so), but I find that very often I just can't get the gears to shift perfectly every time. For example, 1 in 20 gear changes, the shift won't feel perfectly smooth or it may even miss a gear.
I run a 9-speed Shimano XT M772 groupset btw.
So what's your trick to getting it spot on every time?
Avid flak jackets.
very clean mech, chain and cassette, on a road bike. Once you've got it dialed in, when out on the road it may need a very slight adjustment to get it perfect every time. literally 1/8 turn either way...
The only trick is acceptance that sometimes it isn't perfect, but i can live with it.
Similar topic, i find i can either get upshifts or downshifts to be instant, by slightly favouring them in set up. What's your preference? For me it's downshifts, when i need an easier gear i want it now, not 15 milliseconds later. Like it makes SFA difference in real life, it's just how I like it.
not Seabrooks. gah, wrong thread...
New stuff, quite often the reason for poor shifts is something being slightly bent, pivots being worn, cables stretched or worn, outers being worn.
replacing cables normally improves my shifting when no amount of tinkering can get it right.
In terms of preference I prefer down shift (to the larger sproket). As a general rule I am more likely to down shift under load while pedalling so don't want dodgy shifing. If you are shifting up I'm normally going faster or accelerating so can lighten the load on the pedals for the shift.
Having said that up shift is more affected by worn components as it relies on the spring to pull the mech back down so any sticky pivots or cables have an impact. Shifting down you just notice it getting a bit heavier and can compensate.
don't take your bike outside, ever.
i can get 1 or 2 rides out of a complete set of new cables, but then it's back to crappy service as usual. Years of crappy mtb shifting have taught me to shift with 2clicks, then quickly 'back' 1.
(yes, i know about cable stretch)
10speed mtb stuff is more filth-tolerant than 9spd stuff, but that's not saying much.
Full length outers.
Don't know why every MTB doesn't have them
On XT setup I use Clarkes premium cables, change the chain every year and keep lubrication to a 'clean minimum'. Maybe I just got lucky but it's been working well
I always have mine erring to shifting up (into a smaller cog) as I always thing to go down (to a bigger cog) I can always give the shifter a little nudge which I can do the other way.
Hi and Lo set points must be [b]absolutely [/b]spot on. indexing thereon will be sweet as.
Full length SP41 outers, bit of Rock 'n Roll Cable Magic and decent shimano inners here.
Reduced expectations.
di2
As above h&l settings.
Also a new inner cable from time to time.
Make sure your outer cable routing is nice with no tight bends. Add a bit of lube tothe inside of a cable from time to time but above all nmake sure your Mech hanger is 100% straight.
If you have problems try a new Mech hanger
And if your still struggling pay a bike shop to set them up. Perfect gears is worth Ten or twenty quid.
No tips here other than keep it clean and accept that it's mechanical and cables stretch so it will need an occasional fettle...however, I've been [i]amazed[/i] at the quality (positivity & ease) of SRAM X0 shifting compared to XTR!
Crisp shifts only tend to happen when EVERYTHING is now.
Im currently enjoying just this experience. Its a 9spd Shimano XT shifters using existing mechs.
I've replaced the inner and outer cables (Shimano SP41 + teflon coated SS cable) , chain, cassette, rings and jockey wheels and its as crisp as a freshly starched cotton sheet.
I've used Fox Float Fluid as a lubricant for the gear cables and its working well.
To be honest crisp shifting is more down to the gear cables and outers than anything else.
My old setup continued to shift well but was let down by stiff cables.
I don't expect the shifts to remain as good once the rain & mud return.
Full length outers.
Chain replaced when required not by date
Lube and clean
H/L Limits set right
SRAM Grears
I've been struggling with the shifting on my roadie with cables under the bar tape for some months. You can get marginal gains adding up to pretty good shifting by:
Fitting new cable outer at the rear derailleur often in winter and waterproofing the outer at the ferrules with grease or lanoline.
Cleaning chain and cassette.
Adjusting B screw so top pulley is the right distance from the cassette.
Not using worn out chains.
Fitting expensive metal pulleys with decent sealed bearings.
it's easier to accept bad shifting in my experience. as long as the chain won't slip it's not too bad.
taught me to shift with 2clicks, then quickly 'back' 1.
^^^this.
Dont use 40t expander sprockets, my 1x10 was perfect before, cant get it as good now. Still worth it though.
Dont use 40t expander sprockets, my 1x10 was perfect before, cant get it as good now. Still worth it though.
The One-up RAD cage will sort this if you are on Shimano.
Full length outers.
Somewhat disagree. Full length outers keeps it sweet for much, much longer but for truly spot on shifting, exposed cables where everything (particularly the cables) is brand-new is much lighter and crisper. There's a good amount of friction in the extra enclosed cable even though it's less than you get with manky cables. Regardless, for MTBs, full cable outer all the way.
I lurv i-links
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I know,I know ,they cost a lot (for cables) and I could get the same result with full outers ,but they are just so nice and you can get really neat cable runs. 🙂
Full length outers with 2 or 3 Middleburn cable oilers for regular lubing. replace inners regularly and outers slightly less regularly. All these things are pence but IME they make a massive difference
My new* SLX/XT works beautifully, not many miles but it's been left very muddy more than it's been cleaned, nothing done to it just normal setup, it really is bloody impressive. My 105 on the road bike is a constant ****! The front mech always seems to want to remind me it's there by rubbing or dumping my chain and it feels like I'm constantly doing 1/8 turns on the cable adjusters to get the down shift sweet on the rear. I've given up trying to get a crisp one click up the cassette shift.
(*it ain't that new)
Faff about with various settings, generally making it far worse, then give it the LBS to work their magic in return for cash and / or cake.
Go singlespeed.
I can shift between sat down, stood up, and walking in total silence.
Andy
(tbh I'm lying, I normally utter a quiet "arse!" before shifting to walking)
In my case avoid front mechs, everything was perfect 1 x 10 before I put a compact on. Seriously thinking of going back and losing the little bit of speed and climb advantage it gives me in return for a less frustrating ride.
Just setting it up right- there's no real trick, if it's adjusted right and all the bits work right, it'll shift right.
Though, OK, perhaps it is a trick- I check mech hanger alignment fairly obsessively, most times the rear wheel is out of one of my bikes I'll check it as it only takes seconds. And it's a little squint about half the time. It's pretty much always squint when I work on anyone else's bikes.
The tools to do it are cheap- you can buy purpose built ones but I use an old Shimano axle from a dead hub threaded into the hanger, and a bit of threaded rod for my straight edge, dead easy.
Never really had a problem with shifting. Just get the decent Shimano cable and outers. Make sure you've not got any tight bends. Use SRAM shifters and mech on the mtb which I reckon is quite tolerant. Also when putting the bike away I always shift into the smallest sprocket so there's the least tension on the cable. Hardly ever have to tweak.
Only trouble I've had recently was on the TT bike with some unavoidable tight bends in the cable. Plenty of lube on the inners has improved things. Tempted to try some of the Nokon cable but it is rather pricey.
Fresh inners and outers.
Set limit screws.
Connect cable.
Adjust cable tention.
New components will always feel much crisper.
If you're running 9 speed, then SRAM XO.
Just. Works.
Make sure you use Shimano cables, not the el cheapo cables in the big box at the LBS. The Shimano cables are shinier and more flexible.
Cutting your outers square and even taking a file to them helps an awful lot IMO.
I tend to fit mech, adjust hi/lo(much easier on a stand try to get as square on and in line as you can) , fit the cable and gently nudge the deraileur over then tighten the cable (this will give a little bit of tension). Very rarely fails to keep me shifting sweet for a long time, if it does go off it'll normally have been with fitting the outers and not getting a ferule nice and tight.
Tempted to try some of the Nokon cable but it is rather pricey.
Mr B
If you are going down that route ,I would choose the I-Links over Nokon as I found that they tarnished quite a bit.
[i]BTW ,it was a TT bike that i first used them on .[/i]
8 speed.
Does setting the limit screws make any difference other than to the top and bottom gears? It's only stopping the derailleur at the limit at either end not affecting the overall position innit?
Bottom limit basically sets your starting point for setting things up, get it right over the smallest sprocket before connecting the cable (usually I then pull the cable as tight as possible and clamp it, and there's a pretty good chance that I'll not have to adjust anything else!) Top limit stops the mech shifting beyond the biggest sprocket and destroying your wheel 🙂
If you are going down that route ,I would choose the I-Links over Nokon as I found that they tarnished quite a bit.BTW ,it was a TT bike that i first used them on .
Thanks, I'll check it out. Changed the bar assembly and it makes for some tight bends, seem ok now that I've given it loads of lube. If it starts playing up again I may well switch.
Direct Rear Mount
grum - MemberDoes setting the limit screws make any difference other than to the top and bottom gears?
Sort of- if the limit screws are wrong you're pretty likely to get the cable pull wrong too as you end up trying to set the end position by cable instead.
Makes sense. Ta.
As said above. Limit screws spot on and everything clean. Lube the cables with very thin oil.
The biggest revelation for me was hanger alignment. It might look straight but it won't be. That can be the difference between sharp, crisp shifts every time or not.
I invested in a Park DAG and check the alignment on every good clean of the bike. If you're taking the chain off it's only one bolt to take the rear mech off. Just make sure you have a spare mech hanger in the tool box. Sometimes the hanger can be so far out it's not saveable.
Friction shifting all the way.
I use bar-end shifters on most of my geared bikes, so it's straight forward, but my Swift is likely to get it's 3x10 XT set-up moved to a bar-end & 'thumbie' mount arrangement pretty soon too.
Less noise, no mis-shifts, huge span in one movement, reliable, shifts anything over anything ... what's not to like?
This
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JonEdwards - Member
If you're running 9 speed, then SRAM XO.Just. Works.
Best shifting I've ever had, works under all conditions, minimal maintenance, just perfect 😀
Internal hub gears
full outers. Slick shifting for years.
Electric
i rub mine in shit and grit bung it in the shed for a week then spray gt85 all over the disc rotors just befpre heading out.
mixed results so far
Rohloff. 😉
On derailleur gears, I found middleburn cable pulses + full length outerw to be the big thing. Replacing worn jockey wheels can also improve things a lot.
I grind the outer cable ends so they are completely square and fit into the ferules can help,One other thing thats overlooked is the cassette or chain set sprockets not positioned properly on the free hub carrier or crank-set causing the ramps to be in the wrong place hth
Wow..some folk go to a lot of effort here!
I just use full shimano outers and 1.1mm inners. Combined with knowing how to set up my gears this gives me perfect shifting for months with minor barrel adjustment.
middleburn cable pulses
Gah! That should have been "cable oilers"' obviously. Damned auto-correct! 😕
andyv - Member
Go singlespeed...
ottocat - Member
Internal hub gears
PhilO - Member
Rohloff.
+1 🙂
Limit screws do nothing for general indexing. They can only affect gear changes into the highest and lowest gears but if they are set too wide they won't even do that. In decending order of importance the things that improve shifting are
1. A clean, well lubricated, unworn drivetrain
2. Clean, well lubricated cables (personally I use XTR)
3. Frame/hanger alignment
4. Quality of mech and shifters.
Sounds like a pretty good summary to me gonefishin, thanks.
My shifting has been so-so since fitting a Trex. I bent my hanger the other night, put a new one on and shifting is loads better, so it seems my hanger has been invisibly bent for a while from some crash or other.