I'm off to the states for a few weeks and taking the opportunity to buy a bike to ride there. So I'll be bringing it back... As a bike I've bought and ridden "for personal use" can I be caught for import duty and UK tax on my return? Or because I've bought it in the states, paid their tax and used it am I in the clear? Unless it's a hard line of "anything you bring back" it seems a bit of a grey area - or is it in theory that black and white?
As a bike I've bought and ridden "for personal use" can I be caught for import duty and UK tax on my return?
Yes.
In a past life I worked in customs clearance. People regularly got caught and hit with duty and vat for doing what you describe although not with bikes in my experience.
Ok, fair enough. So long as I know.
Of course you might get away with it especially if it is manky.
jimmy - Member
Or because I've bought it in the states, paid their tax and used it am I in the clear?
Nope. What you paid in tax in a country outside the EU counts for nothing. You are importing into the EU. All applicable VAT and duty in the destination EU country applies. Applies to personal use, applies to gifts (you get an allowance for gifts but it's tiny compared to the cost of a bike).
The amount varies. VAT differs per country and duty depends on the product. Also you get allowances. Coming into the UK you get more allowance when travelling than if you mail ordered.
it seems a bit of a grey area - or is it in theory that black and white?
Nothing grey about it officially. Black and white, you should pay up on a bike as it's way over the allowances.
Unofficially you can get away with it 😉
Hint: You of course took it out there with you. See, it's dirty, and you have no receipts with you (extra hint: receipts... stick in a post box).
ps Some countries, and certain US states you can claim back the local tax you paid there. Usually you have to get a form and maybe get it stamped, at the airport before you leave though. Canada used to do it, and a few but not all US states.
Nothing grey about it officially. Black and white, you should pay up on a bike as it's way over the allowances.
This, not declaring it is Tax Evasion. You know all these cuts and austerity measures? If people paid the tax they owed it would be better, think of the medical treatments that could be funded if you paid the right amount of tax.
Can you take a bike from the tip with you in a bike bag ditch bike in States buy new bike and bring it home in the bike bag?
Can you take a bike from the tip with you in a bike bag ditch bike in States buy new bike and bring it home in the bike bag?
Yep, thats still evading the tax.
Rightly or wrongly though, how would they tell / know? I imagine lots of people buy a new bike and bike bag to take on their holiday. Ive never once carried receipts for pieces of equipment I have bought to prove I bought it before I went on holiday.
FunkyDunc - Member
Rightly or wrongly though, how would they tell / know?
Because you would do the morally right thing and declare it?
A mate was held up years back and had to prove the bike had come from the UK and he was returning with it. Also need to be wary of any warranty issues.
It's black & white officially....All down to your morals on paying the tax.
You would most likely get away with it, I have in the past.
Mike, chill at little.
You know all these cuts and austerity measures? If people paid the tax they owed it would be better, think of the medical treatments that could be funded if you paid the right amount of tax.
How many imported bikes would it need to pay for a hospital ? What if defence contracts and IT contracts were negotiated correctly and not used as political footballs which waste millions on overspends, late deliveries or cancellations... I know its "one bike" .. I get your argument.
Because [s]you[/s] I would do the morally right thing and declare it [s]?[/s]
I think role models of doing the morally right thing went out of the window for me with claims for Duckhouses and Moats, second homes and MP's expenses. Then there is the system put in place by our MP's that allow Starbucks, Amazon etc to pay so little Corporation Tax by operating legally in the way they do, using the system put in place by the UK Government.
I respect your perspective but me, I would buy it in the States, have a great trip then bag it up, all used and grubby and play HMRC / Customs roulette, but be prepared to cough up.
Other opinions may vary...
Loving the gullible moral righteousness in this thread. 😆
If politicians, footballers and celebrities can embezzle billions in offshore bank accounts, why should a Singletracker feel guilty about cheating HMRC out of a couple of hundred quid by importing a bike without paying duty?
Sorry it was meant with a hint of sarcasm, anyway it's just a little bit of tax evasion, like stealing a bag of crisps from tesco or buying a new mountain bike on CTW etc. defend it all you want but it's still wrong 🙂
The old people take the piss more argument always wins though.
if you get stopped coming back in and claim the bike originated in the UK they can confiscate the bike and hold it till you prove UK purchase, I think. allegedly. They aren't looking for a photo and ticket of you leaving with a rubbish tip bike, they are more interested in a purchase receipt from the UK.
It is perfectly possible to bring one into the UK and nothing happens but there's a risk they stop you and grill you.
Morally its up to you but you know that despite what people post on here to sway you. Your choice.
All friends again. 8)
Or support you LBS shop and buy one from there?
Buy a £10 bike from your local dump, take it to the States, dump it, ride your new steed so it no longer looks new, bring it home. Who's going to know?
As long as you can "show" a bike went on the outbound flight.......
hammyuk - Member
As long as you can "show" a bike went on the outbound flight.......
Makes no odds if you can't show the bike that you have in your possession at the time was bought in the UK/EU really.
Of course, if you did take a beater bike to swap for a new one while over there, and got caught, I'd imagine that the HMRC might be more annoyed than if you just brought a dirty one back and feigned ignorance. Because that would be showing knowledge and a planned attempt to evade.
If I was returning with a bike I had bought in the Uk and went out with for a holiday I think I would struggle at the airport on return, to prove it was a UK purchased item. Maybe the Uk Border Control could prove this for me, I don't know.
I dont take laptop / ipad / bike receipts as the nom when I go biking elsewhere...
Not being argumentative, just reflecting on what has happened in the past...
If I was returning with a bike I had bought in the Uk and went out with for a holiday I think I would struggle at the airport on return, to prove it was a UK purchased item. Maybe the Uk Border Control could prove this for me, I don't know.
I dont take laptop / ipad / bike receipts as the nom when I go biking elsewhere...
Hence they confiscate it until you can prove legitimate ownership... Could still be hard though, if genuinely bought second hand in the UK.
What about second hand bikes bought in the US? I guess a paypal payment could be used as evidence, but if you paid cash...
[quote=rickmeister ]If I was returning with a bike I had bought in the Uk and went out with for a holiday I think I would struggle at the airport on return, to prove it was a UK purchased item. Maybe the Uk Border Control could prove this for me, I don't know.
I dont take laptop / ipad / bike receipts as the nom when I go biking elsewhere...
Not being argumentative, just reflecting on what has happened in the past...
A colleague of mine had exactly the problem you've managed to avoid concerning a laptop she'd bought just before a trip to the US. Coming back in they wanted proof she hadn't bought it over there, which she didn't have (who would, as you pointed out). They wanted her to either pay the relevant duty and taxes or they'd keep it until she could provide evidence. Her daughter ended up driving to the airport with the receipt.
make sure you don't have the receipt for it hidden somewhere they can then find it.. thus making you out like a prize plum
ti_pin_man - Member
if you get stopped coming back in and claim the bike originated in the UK they can confiscate the bike and hold it till you prove UK purchase, I think. allegedly. They aren't looking for a photo and ticket of you leaving with a rubbish tip bike, they are more interested in a purchase receipt from the UK.
Correct. I came back from Peru last Summer with my second-hand ebay-bought bike, and years old bits I'd added over the years.
The customs dude seemed to want to make a point with me and took delight in informing me that he could confiscate my bike if I couldn't prove I'd bought it in the UK and traveled out with it.
Jobsworth sorta bloke, who of course had a point.
He didn't though. He let me go with a warning... 🙄
Do you want me to write you a receipt for the santa cruz you recently bought off me secondhand for cash?
Just take an old one out with you and ditch it to bring the new one back. You'll probably be doing something illegal but try riding your cheap Yeti/Intense/Santa Cruz loads when you get back it'll tire you out and that should help you sleep better at night 😉
I'd do the same if I was in your boat. Who's to say you didn't buy it in the UK 2nd hand so have no receipt.
Always makes me chuckle at the outrage over celeb tax avoidance, and then discussions like this about avoiding import tax or using C2W to get a bike that will never be used for commuting.
Everyone is free to set out their own standards in life, just best to make sure yours aren't double. The amounts involved are irrelevant to tbe principle. I think Churchill proved that point in a conversation with some unfortunate lady regarding her virtue.
I've never been stopped at Customs on my return to the UK, from anywhere. In fact, after passport control, the Customs stations are deserted!
Buy the Bike as soon as you get there take it out as much as possible don't clean it & put it in the used bike bag you took out with you 😀 have probably been on 20 + bike holidays over the last 10 years including North America & never once been stopped to check if the bike is new.
after passport control, the Customs stations are deserted!
lol, see those lovely mirrors on the wall, they're not really mirrors. Behind each one is a little customs man checking to see who seems most relieved to see that the Customs stations are deserted.
Whilst pulling on the rubber gloves to investigate their bottom bracket...
passtherizla - Member
Can you take a bike from the tip with you in a bike bag ditch bike in States buy new bike and bring it home in the bike bag?
Have seen it done.
Though they don't keep records about what you took out to pair up with the return trip, and they have more interesting people to chase after than spend time trying to check with an airline. Plus the airline's records won't say what was in the bags.
Kit - Member
I've never been stopped at Customs on my return to the UK, from anywhere. In fact, after passport control, the Customs stations are deserted!
These days they know who they are after in advance, but yes as mentioned above they are hiding behind the mirrors and cameras.
To be honest they're more interested in the big family coming in from India or wherever with a year's supply of food. They're the ones I see getting stopped.
Once upon a time Gordon Brown promised he'd increase the traveller allowance to £1k. As with everything he said, it was another lie.
What lube for customs interrogations?
The customs dude seemed to want to make a point with me and took delight in informing me that he could confiscate my bike if I couldn't prove I'd bought it in the UK and traveled out with it.
Jobsworth sorta bloke, who of course had a point.
is probably the main hurdle to overcome, especially if combined with this weeks HMRC / Border Control fishing expedition.
They do like to be in control at the airport and remind you of this either subtly, or in no uncertain terms.
Give them the Kashima ring of confidence and hopefully sail straight through.
I know of musicians who have been given a very hard time with guitars, saxes etc, how much do you reckon you'll actually save when you factor in the extra baggage costs?
Depending on the airline there may be no extra baggage costs.
Who's to say you didn't buy it in the UK 2nd hand so have no receipt.
The serial number? HMRC will have a record of the frames imported by the official importer to check against.
The serial number? HMRC will have a record of the frames imported by the official importer to check against.
But if you bought second hand, who's to say the original owner didn't import it? However, HMRC hold all the cards in this game and can hang onto the bike until you prove it was bought in the UK if they feel like it.
Or you could maybe just play by the rules..... 🙄
I wouldn't take lecturing on the morality of paying taxes seriously from anyone who's posting here on company time 😉
Surely the VAT and import duty are based on the value as imported, not the new value. If it has two weeks of hard use on it its likely to be worth rather less than the new price ?
Do they make a note of your personal possessions when you leave the country?
I'd not bother wasting time taking out a beater as I'd put money on making FA difference.
I might take some knackered old tyres and grips out though...
how much do you reckon you'll actually save when you factor in the extra baggage costs?
Salsa spearfish 3 UK- £2300
Salsa spearfish 3 US- $2400 = £1400
Saving of £900 or about 40% on a midrange bike
Or, the cost of a holiday to the states for something more exotic.
Portland last month was ace.
fourbanger - do your numbers include sales tax which is probably around 6% depending on states? Makes a difference but doesn't change the overall calculation.. it's still a big difference.
Or you can email me and we can make a correspondence that you "bought" bike from me 2nd hand so you can use it later ....as long you buy me a reverb remote in the states for a shitload cheaper than over here 😕
The serial number? HMRC will have a record of the frames imported by the official importer to check against.
Really?
Buy it (post receipt home)..
Give to friend as present..
Buy back as secondhand and keep receipt to show if required by customs 🙂
Think limiting amount of duty exposure rather than avoidance.
The serial number? HMRC will have a record of the frames imported by the official importer to check against.
Sounds like way too much paperwork and organisation to me. Plus a central database of bike frame numbers? ! Government based IT project to do that would take decades to implement, cost billions and overrun then be cancelled 😀
I did what the OP wants to do....
We were going to Florida back in May, so i looked at what was arround over there. Found an Ibis HDR (650b) and arranged that if i bought it it could be delivered to the hotel we were staying in. No probs there so i bought it.....
From here i got hired a bike box from the LBS and found a "scrapper" to take with me, took it to a scrap place over there and fetched the new one back.
No taxes/charges what so ever and saved 2k 😛
How it arrived at the hotel
[img] 
[/img]
😀
fourbanger - do your numbers include sales tax which is probably around 6% depending on states? Makes a difference but doesn't change the overall calculation.. it's still a big difference.
No sales tax in Oregon.
I'm not sold on the "take a banger" approach. If they want purchase proof then the banger counts for nothing. Might even just take my bike with me to save the stress - this thread has at least answered the black/white question!
What I meant was that you take one (get rid over there) and fetch one back. You'll be taking a bag/box with you anyway and Virgin Atlantic did'nt charge for "sports equipment" on the plane. Leaving the states they wanted to open the box to swab for chemicals and did'nt even look at the bike. From our customs point of view, you have taken a bike with you and brought one back. They did'nt check at all....
It's worth a thought. I saved 2k."..