Jones!
[quote="druidh"]
Oh - and the 5.
tried one. Completely underwhelmed, especially for the cost.
Thats cos your old and crap
and I am crap cos I double posted
Only bikes I've ridden that didn't do it for me were:
the orginal Giant Reign (the worst climbing bike ever and not that great downhill),
the Charge Duster (just an awful lump of heavy steel) and
the original Whyte E5 (boring, for some unknown reason).
Haven't really read anything rating them that highly, so can't see that they fit in as overrated.
But if you've got one and think it's fantastic, then you're overrating it. Cos this is STW and I'm right and you're wrong.
Orange 5 for sure:
The main reason I ride a mtb is really for the image thats associated with it. A fearless, athletic, mountain warrior whos not afraid of the outdoors.
However, the Orange 5 just gave me the classic trail centre mincer / weekend warrior aura. Within 2 weeks of owning one, I'd gained 3 stone in weight and my hair had started thinning. I'd also applied for several jobs in IT and there was an Audi parked in my garage.
I'd taken a turn for the worse so I sold it on as a revelation in mtb technology "a 5 inch travel trail machine with the lively ride of a hardtail (when braking over bumps)"
Anyway, back on a single speed hardtail now, and the girls love me.
Expensive bikes generally!
Bikerbruce
STEEL
-1
BIKES WITH MORE THAN 140mm front and rear unless your dh'ing.
learn to ride otherwise....
+1
[i]the girls love me.[/i]
Yep. We've seen the pictures.
I have had 3 hardtails, a Single pivot FS, a Horst link FS and a 29er
Im not good enought to notice the difference TBH. As I get better the bike gets better. If I rode a 5 now, I would think it was ace. If I rode it 2 years ago and replaced it, I would think it was over rated?
I'm not sure there is a bad bike to be honest - sounds hippy'ish but all bikes are designed for a purpose or given scenario. I've alway taken the piss out of Orange and their evergreen 5, but tested one at Glentress and thought it was amazing. Had I tested it on my usual Thetford/Alton Waters ride and I'm pretty certain I'd have branded it rubbish
Likewise a rigid 29er SS on semi-slicks will be rubbish riding Inners or the 'tress, but it'll be awesome on dry Thetford singletrack (RIP).
Horses for courses
Horst Link 5 spot; I went to Sshockwave at Ruddington fully expecting to be blown away and came away depressed; my Trek Y frame rode better. It felt dead (and creaked a lot).
Specialized FSR's - again they feel dead to me.
However, a couple of bikes that have surprised me just how good they were are Titus Supermoto (which I ended up buying instead of 5 spot), and Marin Quake. The SuMo made me realise just how good a horst link 4 bar can be, and the Marin could be pedalled down a boulder field without upsetting the ride or losing a chain.
Having said all that I've just bought my 40th Birthday present - 2011 Orange 5 frame.
I've had a fair few bikes and I'm as guilty as the next person for being swayed by a magazine review, but at the end of the day I just keep going back to Orange single pivots. I think, as mentioned above, it really is a case of horses for courses.
Spec FSR - I see loads out and about, but after I had a long ride on one; I can't really see why they're so popular.
Marketing...
I'd say the only over-rated bike is one that is kept in a shed/garage/spare room, talked about but not ridden. It has to be judged on an individual basis, for example, a former regular of our riding group had (until recently) a Gary Fisher Roscoe, the minute he stopped riding (but continued talking about it), it became over-rated.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm sat at home, ill, and haven't ridden in 3 days. I also own a 5pro with a few upgrades. I bought it recently because it was pretty competitively priced compared to the junk kit on offer on a Remedy etc. I had a Patriot which I loved in the Alps but was a bit overkill on these shores (despite some of the rockiest riding around being found less than a mile from home). The ease of service and cost of new bearings/bushes has to be a factor when riding a bike year rounds and the 5 wins hands-down. I owned an Anthem before the Five, it was terrible at what I wanted it to do, then again it wasn't designed to do what I wanted it for so who is to blame for buying an inappropriate bike? Me.
Don't even get me started on fully rigid/singlespeed, if you can get away with that it's not proper mountain biking (round these parts anyway). I guess what I'm also trying to say is that a bike can only be judged when geography and ride preferences are taken into account.
Better go and take some more Beechams...
Neil
Turners - The whole HorstLink, TNT, DW link shuffle proved that the marketing bullsh*t spouted by manufacturers is really just that.....bullsh*t.
So called boutique frames in general are all over rated, especially by their owners atempting to justify to themselves and others the price thay have paid for a mass produced far eastern frame.
I must be a marketting man's dream as I have owned (or currently own) an Orange 5, a Cotic Soul, an '06 S-Works Enduro and a Singular Swift.....waits for the abuse!
+1 for Spesh FSRs
And the last but one Marin Mount Vision... urgh!! Soggy and slow. But I suppose no-one on here would have one anyway.
Oh dear me too.
I've had/got an Orange 5, Cotic soul, 5 spot, spesh Enduro and Stumpy FSR all of which have been mentioned.
Haven't read all the posts, has the Whyte PRST1 been mentioned? I had one of those too. 😳
Not one mention of Cannondales then?? dodgy customer service...expensive...headshock and lefty both felt very wrong to me..too many brand specific components..
best thing i ever done was getting rid of the dales and get an on-one for a quarter of the price.
Marin quadlink bikes just never seemed right to me, always felt I was sat perched on top and unstable
Not to say its a bad bike, just didnt suit my riding at that time
Bikes are horses for courses, one mans dream ride is another mans dead and horrible feeling lump. I've seen people in this thread slate bikes I like very much and others I have never tried and it looks to me like just another STW slag off things and wind each other up-a-thon.
So I'll just say Orange 5 as well.
the orange is built like a brick wall so it goes up cumbrian hills n goes back down them without weighing too much n without snapping like all the carbon/lightweight bikes you can buy now!!!
Jones,end of
Re. Cotic, maybe the person above bought the wrong size? I had a Large for a while as I was borderline between Large and Medium, and while it worked with an 80mm stem (IIRC), it was bloody awful with something much shorter. Very long top tubes, short stems, steep seat angles and steep head angles don't work IMHO. I still remember going down a really easy but fast singletrack descent on Cannock Chase with my Soul with a short stem and I was all over the place as the front end just wouldn't hold a line. I think a Medium would have been better in reigning in the front end a bit and made it more of a singletrack ripper. All this has become more apparent since owning a Chromag Stylus (Large). It's only 1/2" shorter in the top tube than the Soul but the geometry so much better for new school hooning (whatever that is), and a 50mm stem feels spot on.
What is it with all the ill feeling about Orange, we should feel proud of a British company doing so well when so may other have failed or sold out.
they're not cheap, even though they practically boast about how little they spend on RnD...
Mind you, that's exactly how i'd run the same business: there's no need to radically change something that sells so well.
Specialized must spend a fortune redesigning the Enduro every 7minutes...
Orange: good luck to 'em!
"If you are a trail centre mincer then the 5 will be wasted on you, ride the Lakes, Peaks and Alps and you will enjoy it lots". - Agreed, it's designed for tougher trails than the average UK trail centre has. Comparing it next to a Giant Trance X - please... You'd rattle one of those to death on a decent lakeland trail.
Inbred. It's like a Scandal only heavy. Pointless things.
Think the Soul possibly is a wee bit overrated, it's bloody brilliant mind but people get carried away. I love/loved mine but it does have its limits and it's expensive.
And yeah, Orange 5. Great bikes but again people get carried away, they're very good at the job they do but that job isn't neccesarily the job most people want done. Yet people insist they're great allrounders, which they aren't really. MBR reviews pretty much sum up Five overrating- "The wheels are too narrow and too weak, and the brakes down't work, 10/10!" That and finding out Orange won't recommend a middle ring bigger than a 32, that's a big failing in an am bike.
And while we're at it, P7. Laughably overweight and overpriced. Fanboys decide that because they're overweight, they must be massively strong... Nope. Ah but it must be because of CEN! Nope. It's just lazy design because they know people'll buy them and make excuses. If it said On One on the side it'd cost £150.
I think bikes and kit get overrated because of people on here and elsewhere just trying to justify their reasons for buying something.
So in reality there is nothing wrong with any of the bikes out there, just people arguing the toss
Comparing it next to a Giant Trance X - please... You'd rattle one of those to death on a decent lakeland trail.
Have you ridden one in such conditions? I rode mine on Sunday along the Devils Staircase and Ciaran Path and it handled it no bother at all. It's totally un phased by anything you can point it down and it's strong as ****. 5's look a bit flimsy to me.
+1 for what Jedi said.
No bikes are great allrounders, if allround means from dh race to xc race and everything in between. Stupid expression really.
If i had to choose 1 bike to do an xc and dh race on though, a 5 would be up there.
IMHO it's got to be the Commencal Meta 5, god awful sofa riding heavy ass thing. I've test ridden one on four occasions and just thought the same again and again.
Conversely I actually like how the Orange 5 rides, just can't get over the as my mate put it so eloquently 'looks like it's been welded by a blind monkey' looks.
I definitely agree that certain bikes don't suit a certain riding style or even the local terrain.
Hence my dislike of anything with 6" or less by specialized, to XC orientated, or the vastly overpriced Turner equivalent. The most money I have wasted to date has been on a NOS Turner Burner, two rides & it resides in the loft, heavy steep & dull, no idea how they were popular back in the day. My Horst link Azonic propulsion on the other hand which was supposed to be a Turner rip off has much slacker angles & is still part of my collection after seven years, three powdercoats & loads of different kit.
Not that I actually ride much 🙂
I think the 5 should actually have 'welded by Vickers Armaments' on the side.
Inbred. It's like a Scandal only heavy. Pointless things.
You might be right but the Inbred came first so arguably there'd be no Scandal without the Inbred. And presumably On-One still sell them because folk still want to buy them.
..." And while we're at it, P7. Laughably overweight and overpriced... If it said On One on the side it'd cost £150".
A P7 is made from reynolds 631. An On-one is made from 4130 chromoly steel, there's a difference.
Orange have a reputation for building strong bikes that can take a hard time because Steve Wade is concerned with designing reliable bikes that don't need regular maintenance. Look at all the guides that use them in the alps. The latest fad someone like Specialized come up with is only around until their profit pays for tooling, then out comes a new design with the marketing to tell you it's better than the old.
Yeah the 5 is hyped, just as much as the first Specialized Enduro was, both aren't ideal for every type of riding but then no bike is.
stevenmenmuir - Member
"And presumably On-One still sell them because folk still want to buy them."
ie, overrated 
sparkingchains - Member
"A P7 is made from reynolds 631. An On-one is made from 4130 chromoly steel, there's a difference."
Yes there is- but the P7 fails to take advantage of it. Don't look at the material, look at the results. The fact that 631 is more expensive doesn't make the frame worth more, if the frame still ends up overweight and not particularily strong. (it's only CEN-tested for 140mm)
Don't even get me started on fully rigid/singlespeed, if you can get away with that it's not proper mountain biking
But we all rode rigids. It was mountain biking back then wasn't it?
What is it with all the ill feeling about Orange
Please don't misunderstand me, it's not ill feeling to Orange. I suggested test riding a 5 because Dave wanted a British made trail bike. We all really wanted to like it and were very disappointed when we all hated it. He settled for a P7 (frame made overseas of course), with all the Hope upgrades, because we all loved riding it.
Comparing it next to a Giant Trance X - please... You'd rattle one of those to death on a decent lakeland trail.
I agree they are not comparable. The Trance X is quiet and much better tracking in my experience - it was superb riding down Snowdon for example.
Hey, it's the Internet - we can have different opinions!
... and it's lucky we do, else we'd all be out on the same bikes!
Who gives a sh1t?
As long as the bike you ride gives you pleasure (and keeps you riding faster than your mates!) it's irrelevant.
As for aesthetics; I'm too busy looking at the ride ahead to care what my bike looks like.
you're new here aren't you.
I've tried a few 5's and really enjoyed riding them, I'd buy one if u could justify the cost.
I've never ridden a specialized I've liked from £300 basic harstails to range toppers. They always seem like they have been made in a hurry and lack quality.
Definitely Orange 5's(rode one for a year).Until i changed bikes i never realised how poor it was.A couple of years ago it was "trendy" to buy Commencals and it seems as if its Lapierres turn now.
If the media didn't hype bikes then they'd be out of business.
Steel Hardtails.
Any Trek, Marin, Specialized, Kona, Carrera, Boardman, Bontrager, DeKerf, Orange, On One, Ragley, Cotic, Litespeed, Cannondale, Raleigh, Surly, Ibis, Intense, Mongoose, Giant, Gary Fisher, Diamondback, Voodoo, Cove, British Eagle, K2, Proflex, Scott, Klein, GT, Haro, Fuji, Mountain Cycle, Ventana, Breezer, Norco, Nuke Proof, Sunn, Nirve, Schwinn, Amp, KHS, Kestrel, Jamis, Iron Horse, Turner and Santa Cruz.
The only good bike ever was the Raleigh Street Wolf.
Been into a merc d(st)ealership and seen a merc MTB? Somewhere between 50-100% overpriced. Same with BMW, Audi....etc...
On-One 456, had one for over 6 months and just didn't get on with it.
I've got to disagree on the 5, tis expensive, but I've demo'd a couple now and loved them. Just can't afford one currently. Currently ride a conventionally suspended Cannondale Prophet which is great, but the lefty forks are a pain for maintaining. Had a Heckler for over 2 years, great bike, but too short in the top tube. US designed geo I guess.
The one bike I regret getting rid of though was the '04 Specialized Enduro (the old monocoque one). I don't care what others think, that bike was just ace and the second hand values of them on ebay show they're still well regarded.
Same old faces grinding the same old axes i see. 🙄
Most overrated bikes;
Steel framed pseudo Cross bikes with disc brakes and no gears.
Cheap steel hardtails, my 456 makes my bum hurt and still feels slower than my Orange 5.
orange 5
cotic soul
I don't know many people who have ridden a Jones to over or under rate it.
This looks like a list of the bikes we have here, (or have owned and rated)! 🙁 Are we sad 'overated' bike owners!!?
ps never had (and very unlikely to have) a Jones
Whe-Hey, no mention of my RM Slayer 🙄
I'll translate that to mean ...'it's awesome' 😆
Oh definitely the Orange 5*
* Of course what I mean is that I wish I had bought / could afford one but I didn't / can't, so I'll vent my impotent rage here on a web forum instead. I also hate BMW / Audi for the same reason (look there's nothing wrong with a Passat ok? ), yeah I'm pretty bitter about how my life turned out so I'll pretend that one of the best bikes ever made is shit and all you need is a steel hardtail made by some bloke with a beard in a shed (but actually Taiwan) because I mean jesus I'm nearly 40 my wife hates me my kids don't want to know me my bastard mortgage is huge what the **** am I doing oh to hell with you all aaaaagh
[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280569758244&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:GB:1123#ht_10381wt_1137 ]THIS ONE[/url] 😛
Funny, I start reading this with a view to expressing my opinions on RM, and no-one else does until this point.
I had an ETSX-70. It was badly designed, badly finished and rode like a shopping trolley despite all my attempts to sort it out. I've looked at other RMs. The finish has always been poor and the designs a bit lacking. When I compare them to my Yeti there is simply no comparison. I now ride a Sanderson Life and it's a lovely bike.
Spesh FSR120 was a good bike, but nothing special.
I do get annoyed with the hype machine. Five years ago it was if you couldn't dare venture offroad unless you had a six inch 35lb All Mountain bike a la Giant Reign or Spesh Enduro. Both bikes were brilliant, but no so much if you lived in Essex.
Four years ago, you absolutely had to have a Commencal. Two years after that you couldn't look at a Commencal without risking it breaking.
Marin went through a phase of being cool that didn't last long and now we have Lapierre who seemingly have the answer to every rider's numptyism.
I apologise to owners of all these bikes (I own two that I've mentioned), I have no doubt that some bikes are game changers but allowances need to be made for common or garden numptyism that no bike will ever compensate for.
That's sort of why I went for a Sanderson. It's just a nice bike. Rides properly. Goes up and down hills. Not too heavy. Not going to break. Nice colour. Doesn't need tuning up after every ride. Not too flashy. Good fun.
5
Lapierre
Commencal
Hey TrailerTrash,
Was the etx made from Easton, or their own (shite IMO) tubing? I did look at the etx but thought the rear-sus linkage looked potentially weak??
The finish on mine is (well, was) very good and it's standing up to my hammering it very well, the rather standard looking stays are a simple ergo stronger set-up to the etx...well I thought so.
I have no idea what bike I'd buy next, MTB design, geekism and price have launched into hyper space! Yet, I find it aint the bike slowing most folk down...up or down...hey...yes...your'll thinking it 😉
Night all,
Love Tubs - yes it was easton. The linkage is strong enough but its a shite bike
Single-speeds .... just an excuse for slow riders ... to ride slow.
Single-speeds .... just an excuse for slow riders ... to ride slow.
damn it, that's where I've been wrong all this time! I must remember to be slower than gearies* otherwise I'm not a proper single speed rider. I do have a beard though so hopefully that counts for something 😉
*unless it's all a conspiracy and all the geared boys I pass on climbs are deliberately going slow to make me not fit in to a stereotype and hence cause me a mild emotional discomfort and sense of dislocation within the cycling community.
CURSE YOU GEARED BIKEY BOYS!
cannondale lefty's
...mopes off all deflated, dragging feet.....