[Closed] What's more likely - that cycling was the only sport with a doping problem....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club_supplements_controversy

Gets covered up in other sports.. famous La Liga players / tennis players were reported to be visiting Dr Fuentes during Operación Puerto but nothing was done about it..

One significant money can be made from a sport the focus of the governing body always seems to change from protecting the integrity of the sport to protecting its reputation. Positive tests means fewer sponsors and less money, so the first rule is to keep the number of (public) positive tests to a minimum.

I am of the opinion that cycling is no worse, and I suspect much better than most other sports. Cycling seems to almost relish the self flagellation and publicly shares and shouts about its doping problems, almost every other sport brushes it under the carpet.

Look at football, the richest sport in the world where a touch of pace or a bit of strength can make the difference between being OK and being brilliant, how many drug bans have their been in the public domain? None? Very few at most.

See also tennis, rugby, triathlon, athletics obviously, a whole raft of sports.

Any sport where there's money at stake I'd expect.

I'd like to see more proper investigative journalists looking at sports doping, sports hacks don't have the skills and too much of a conflict of interests - since they require access to games, teams etc to get their job done.

Cycling has, at least, admitted its problem and has taken/is taking steps to deal with it. The other sports are hoping not to get caught but they will. It seems harder and harder to keep dirty secrets these days...

this article is targeting crossfit but makes some good points about endurance sports in general:

http://www.t-nation.com/powerful-words/crossfit-and-steroids

If your great grandfather was hammering in railroad spikes for a living or working a plantation without pay, you're going to have a far greater physical advantage, genetically, than if your great grandfather was a mohel.

As racist as that statement may sound, it's true. Genetics is the great un-evener of the playing field, not PEDs. As long as humans from varying backgrounds play sports together there will never be such a thing as an even playing field.

I wouldn't go quite this far but he's right.

We're very good at accounting for 'visible disability' but we don't care a bit for invisible differences.

To illustrate, making some assumptions, who has the greatest impediment to performance? Sarah Storey who clearly has a malformed hand but can still ride a bike and might well have a genetically inherited VO2 max of say 90, or her classmate from school (not me, though we were at the same school) who doesn't have a malformed hand but only has a VO2 max of 40?

Once Storey is up and running her hand deformity is probably neither here nor there but her VO2 max means she has a clear competitive advantage.

Yeah but aren't genetic advantages/disadvantages just part of the sport? To label them as a non-level playing field is a bit odd.

You could argue that you should only play sports against clones of yourself, who were all raised in an identical manner, but that would kind of miss the point.

Yeah but aren't genetic advantages/disadvantages just part of the sport? To label them as a non-level playing field is a bit odd.

Genetically superior.

Remind you of anything?

I'm not saying I disagree with you, just that it's an interesting perspective. Ultimately, the fascination with sport is based entirely on elitism. If not then there's little to be interested about. It's why elite level sport is more popular than amateur level sport and why I personally think a lot of the para-olympic events are a bit, well, pointless. The whole point of sport being interesting is that some people are born physically more capable than others.

Yes, I suspect genetics play less of a part than most people think and hard work and determination play a bigger part.

Even with the best genes you have to put in some amount of training to win anything at the top level. I think this is a lot of the reason pro sport is popular - us mere mortals have to go to work etc. whereas some are "lucky" enough to spend all their time training. It's this level of obsession that makes it fascinating to watch for me at least.

...or all [s](endurance)[/s] sports that involve large amounts of money have a doping problem, it's just that the authorities have their head in the sand about it.

FTFY.

 

You could argue that you should only play sports against clones of yourself, who were all raised in an identical manner

who would win?

Yes, I suspect genetics play less of a part than most people think and hard work and determination play a bigger part.

It is something I have noticed how you get clusters of elite sportpeople from certain schools and youth teams/clubs. So you get a coach and teaching staff that inspire, help install the right work ethics to go along with it, but then also have the right contacts to provide the opportunity to move to a higher stage.

As for the PEDS it was blatantly obvious that distance runners were caning the EPO just as much as Lance & co in the noughties.

Yes, I suspect genetics play [s]less [/s] far more of a part than most people think and hard work and determination [s]play a bigger part[/s] are not differentiating factors.

This is now a different discussion but if you read a lot of the modern research on this subject, you soon realise that hardwork is something that anyone can do, but being born with a superior gene set is not.

I can work as hard as any elite level athlete but I will never be an elite level athlete.

Yes you have to work hard but hard work is not enough sadly.

the authorities have their head in the sand about it

Nail on the head there geetee, I am very much of the belief that cycling has been through it's dark phase and has come out the other side with a predominantly clean field of athletes. I also believe that it is football that should be looked at in detail due to the vast sums of money in question and also the levels of corruption that are only now being highlighted.

It's already been highlighted that what is seen as doping in cycling is considered fine in tennis (can't remember who but it came up during the Tour), so there's a possibility that the lack of one set of rules by which all athletes must abide could be used as an excuse.

Is there seriously anyone still in any doubt about the answer to this question? Endemic in all sport.

TBH if it wasn't for the efforts of the French police i suspect cycling would be pretty much where most other sports are now.

Is there seriously anyone still in any doubt about the answer to this question?

I think a lot of people are very ignorant of the details.

For example Eddie Mayer on PM was entirely surprised to learn that people would cheat by giving themselves a blood transfusion. Apparently this was the first time he'd ever heard about that as a way of cheating.

I think if you asked most people to explain how drug testing actually works, i.e. who does it, what their motivation is, how they are governed etc, they'd struggle to articulate it. Another good example was around the olympics where so much was made about how they would be the cleanest games ever with the most stringent testing in place, but there was no reference or discssion of the quality and thoroughness of out of competition testing (by national bodies).

Also regarding other sport, it'd be interesting to ask fans of other sports whether knowledge that their favourite team was running a doping programme would change their support of that team.

To paraphrase the great Willie Nelson "I don't understand why people give Lance Armstrong such a hard time, when I'm high, I can't even find my bike"

😀

A timely article over at inrng...

http://inrng.com/2015/08/iaaf-athletics-anti-doping-cycling-lessons/

Also regarding other sport, it'd be interesting to ask fans of other sports whether knowledge that their favourite team was running a doping programme would change their support of that team.

Ever wondered why united were so effective in fergie time when the opposition were burnt out 😆

Ever wondered why united where so effective in fergie time when the opposition were burnt ou

We'll know that we are serious about dealing with drug taking in sport when football comes under proper scrutiny. Not only for performance enhancing drugs but for misuse of painkillers etc to bring players back from injury early.

Have a look at the UK anti-doping list of banned athletes, Rugby seems to have an underlying problem. Heard a rumour age group players get big and strong however possible and then play "clean" when they are with a club.

Rugby has a massive problem with PEDS, as the collisions get bigger, the players need to get bigger. Its a lose-lose situation.
The Cronulla sharks bust should have lead to more questions being asked, especially when you start to introduce horse steroids into the equation...

Had a discussion with a friend of a friend who works for anti doping in rugby. Says that the biggest problem in the sport is the youth players buying drugs online to bulk up and break into the professional level.

OK, so here's a list to look at, UKAD current violations:
[url= http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/ ]Current Voilations[/url]
I think Rugby (both codes) needs to do some explaining?

Had a discussion with a friend of a friend who works for anti doping in rugby. Says that the biggest problem in the sport is the youth players buying drugs online to bulk up and break into the professional level.

Which sounds like they are not facing up to the reality of drug use in the sport.

Although looking at the list of bans, they do seem to be active in catching offenders. How many of those are from the elite level?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33777915

The IAAF - so far, so similar to the UCI in the 90s, 00s...

and of course the greatest condemnation is reserved for the leak not the content.

Whoever suggested cycling was the only sport with a doping problem?

slowoldman - Member
Whoever suggested cycling was the only sport with a doping problem?

Most non-cyclists who bring the subject up. Cycling's very public outings have made them think that *cycling* and not *sport* has a problem.

Even on here there have been plenty of deniers that there is a problem with sport in general.

In Scottish rugby its the SRU driving youth players to bulk massively. Seen some who at 17 were huge. SRU driving them in the gym in ways that seem beyond possible.

I know a guy who plays with one of the top club sides in Scotland, and openly admits to taking substances to bulk up, his version is that he does it over the summer holidays, as there is bugger all chance of a Scottish rugby player getting tested. He claims its endemic at his level.

I have no idea why he would say that if it wasn't true, as it makes me think he's a ****, not something to impress people with.

I noticed there have been more suspensions under the biological passport system in athletics than in cycling.

Just saying.

There are a lot more competitors in athletics than in cycling. Also cycling was the pioneer of the biological passport there was a bedding in period where they worked out exactly how it could and should work, and I guess from the cheats side how to keep within the margins.

just look at all the squads in wales , england, scotland and comparewith only a few years ago --they have all tuurned into wardrobes...

Lol. It's gone from "cyclings clean now" to "well everyone else cheats too". Pointing fingers isn't going to help roadying sort out its (very large) problem.

Has it? I thought it was just more a growing realisation that it's not a problem with cycling but a problem with sport. And surely the more sports that go through this and start taking it seriously then the more funds organisations like WADA will have available and the better testing gets for all? Might ultimately see doping become a criminal offence.

Doping in athletics is endemic just look at how many have been busted and how long it's being going on for. Most interesting however is Seb Coe's relationship with Nike/Salazar, he so doesn't want that to blow up. Yet we know Athletics West athletes (unofficial old Team Nike) doped and Salazar was a major part of the setup.

Ever wondered why united were so effective in fergie time when the opposition were burnt out

At the time Rio Ferdinand's ban for "missing" a drug test wasn't really taken up by the media other than the "what an oaf, how could you miss a test to go shopping" angle.

Read Tyler Hamilton's book and then review the Rio scenario in your head. The pertinent bit is about what Tyler (and the other US postal guys) were told to do if a drug tester turned up when they were "glowing". They hid.

Changes the angle from "retard England footballer misses drug test" to "England footballer runs from drug testers to avoid testing positive"

I'm sure doping is rife in lots of professional sports. A recent panorama programme showed how relatively easy it was to dope and beat the tests and biological passport