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I'm perhaps asking for a unicorn bike, I know, but humour me if you will...
I'm curious to try a modern 29er as my last experiences were with 70° head angled hardtail XC bikes - I switched back to 650b for general local riding (Welsh Marches) as they just didn't suit tight, twisty, rooty trails, though I did like the big wheels everywhere else.
The transition spur is my perfect bike on paper I think, but I don't want to spend £5k, and I'm not financing a bike. Obvious Cotic answer is a FlareMAX but they're a way off delivery. The new Jeht (~£3500) with a 140mm fork could fit the bill perhaps, but likely to be 33lb+ on a silver build, as opposed to 28lb ish with the (much more expensive) Spur.
I only have one MTB at a time, so it needs to do everything - XC rides, the odd marathon event, FoD, BPW occasionally, and those nadgery local trails. I'm a mostly wheels on the ground rider.
So is there anything in the £2.5 - £3.5k range that sounds suitable that I'm missing? I'm not after a Specialized, Trek or Giant, or Canyon.
Bird? AM9 or Aether 9 depending on what fits your requirements better. (Seems to be all I type on the forum these days, but I'm very impressed with the AM9 I recently got for my lad).
Spur was on my list, but I bought a YT Izzo instead. Just looked and they only seem to have two models listed, the factory bling Pro Race or the Blaze (which is out of stock).
I suspect you're going to be seeing the same deal with a lot of manufacturers well into 2022.
Second hand SC Tallboy? Top bike
The new Specialized Epic seems to be in a similar vein but personally I'd just sell a kidney, get a paper round or whatever and get the Spur.
It sounds like that's what you really want, if you have to wait a while that just gives you more time to scrape the money together.
May I suggest what I have? It is the custom, after all.
Secondhand Orange Stage 4 with a -2deg headset and 130mm fork.
Weighs 29lbs with an everyday build and light-ish wheels (Mavic XA), and has a very lively, engaging ride. It's 30-31lbs with burlier wheels/tyres.
Totally different beast to a Cotic FSer, much more "downcountry" and poppy rather than planted.
The new Stage Evo would probably be slightly better, but more £££s.
Banshee Phantom?
115mm at the back, nice angles and lengths. I have it's bigger brother (The Prime) and whilst only been 4 rides, I'm very happy with it.
Give Pedals Bike Care a shout and they will let you know if they have one. @Pigyn
shop@pedalsbikecare.co.uk // 0131 629 6065 // @pedalsbikecare
https://www.bansheebikes.com/phantom-v3
The new Propain on the front page of this website looks very Spur like to me, even down to the colour and styling. Slightly longer travel but same sort of idea. Better spec for less money as well.
Kona Hei Hei might be worth a look too, used or new.
Intense Sniper
On the Propain, I think I'm right in saying that the £3500 bike tested will be £4700 ish with VAT (20%) and import duty (14%) I think. Happy to be corrected as I really like the look of it!
Second hand Ibis Ripley fit the bill
The transition spur is my perfect bike on paper I think, but I don’t want to spend £5k, and I’m not financing a bike. Obvious Cotic answer is a FlareMAX but they’re a way off delivery. The new Jeht (~£3500) with a 140mm fork could fit the bill perhaps, but likely to be 33lb+ on a silver build, as opposed to 28lb ish with the (much more expensive) Spur.
Not really comparing like-with-like though - at most the Cotic will be 1kg/2lbs heavier (as steel/alloy vs carbon) with an identical build, based on me going from a carbon Camber to FlareMax (and about 100mm longer).
And under the recommend what you have - get a FlareMax 🙂
Revel Ranger is often compared it that same category as the spur and is very well reviewed.
intheborders
Not really comparing like-with-like though – at most the Cotic will be 1kg/2lbs heavier (as steel/alloy vs carbon) with an identical build, based on me going from a carbon Camber to FlareMax (and about 100mm longer).
And under the recommend what you have – get a FlareMax 🙂
The top Spur build is 25lb by all accounts, with a Jeht coming in at 33lb with a higher level build from Cotic. FlareMAX should be a bit lighter with less travel and slightly lighter tubeset. In reality I guess the Spur GX will come in at maybe 27-28lb, and a similar build on a FlareMAX at 32-33lb. The weight is only one factor, what I'm really after is something that covers ground well, but FEELS responsive and involving to ride.
Recently bought a SC Tallboy and could not be happier with it.
North West Mountain Bikes had a few in... base model would be within budget (ish).
what I’m really after is something that covers ground well, but FEELS responsive and involving to ride.
In which case...
May I suggest what I have? It is the custom, after all.
Secondhand Orange Stage 4 with a -2deg headset and 130mm fork.
Weighs 29lbs with an everyday build and light-ish wheels (Mavic XA), and has a very lively, engaging ride. It’s 30-31lbs with burlier wheels/tyres.
Totally different beast to a Cotic FSer, much more “downcountry” and poppy rather than planted.
The new Stage Evo would probably be slightly better, but more £££s.
Thats my old bike - definitely that. I would really, really like to have a go on a new Stage Evo.
The Stage 4 was super fast, agile, and 'feels' really fast. I loved it but went for a longer travel plusher replacement as i have multiple bikes. If I could jsut have one MTB - it would probably still be that (or the Stage Evo, or maybe a Stage 5).
Kona Hei Hei sounds like it could be a good bet if you can find one.
Oh and theres a nice looking 2020 Kona Process Carbon 134 on Pinkbike currently too I spotted. Would make a good build on the right kind of lines.
Just get the spur, everything else is just a lesser option for you, i even believe tweeks have stock of some spurs!
Oh and theres a nice looking 2020 Kona Process Carbon 134 on Pinkbike currently too I spotted. Would make a good build on the right kind of lines.
Good shout, I can vouch for the seller if it's the one I think it is.
Perhaps the Nukeproof Reactor is worth a look too? Or the new Stumpjumper (not Evo).
Orbea oiz 120mm on pink bike at mo
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3028469/
It’s a pity Orange dropped the Stage 4 from their lineup as that would be a good shout. The Stage Evo sounds like it’s more of a trail bike than the XC/trail (or whatever it is called) of the Stage 4
Honestly, sounds like you need a Spur. Nothing gets too close in terms of weight and geometry. Heavier bikes get close geo-wise, steeper, racier bikes get close on the weight. A Spark is a close match weight wise and the suspension is similar (taking the pointless twinloc out the equation).
I’m biased as I’ve got a Spur, but honestly, it’s bent my mind with how fast, fun and capable it is. The thing just generates grip and speed like nothing I’ve ridden.
I’ve just put the Rekon rear tyre on the front and a put a new Rekon Race on the back and honestly it now feels as fast as any proper race bike I’ve ridden but can still be proper trail hooligan. I rode a friends Tallboy recently and it felt nowhere near as fast. It might have an edge on really rough terrain, the kind where you think a 120mm bike is probably under-gunning it, but everywhere else, it’s not as good IMO.
The Spurs are pricey, but the back up is great from Transition if you need, they look amazing and are beyond fun to ride. I adore mine!
The Yeti sb130 is a thing of beauty, unfortunately suffering with the same sort of price tag.
/blockquote>
Do you actually have project DC frames for sale now?My flaremax came in at around 34lbs, so not light but it did climb well and was very stable downhill. I think the frame weighs around twice as much the spur.
I've changed to a more xc bike as that suits my riding, but if going back to Cotic I'd get a jeht as you're getting the extra travel for no real additional weight penalty over a flaremax.
The Spur is a thing of beauty and would be close to top of my wish list for 75% of my riding, but some arguably similar genre bikes are out there, some for less eye-watering sums.
Marin Rift Zone
Norco Optic
Whyte s-120
YT Izzo
Canyon Neuron
More XC-marathon end of things, but still pretty capable:
Pyga Stage Max
Giant Anthem, particularly the 27.5"
Scott Spark
Second-hand: Rocky Mountain Instinct (not sure if they have been discontinued)
I think YT might be getting my money if they had stock of the Izzo, sadly they haven't. But I can't find a Spur in stock in a large anywhere either, in any colour - though I'd want the grey, and colour is important if you're spending that sort of money.
I'm quite taken with the Tallboy but think it may be a bit too plush and trail taming for what I want?
Haha, we do 'sort of' have them for sale, but it has been the worst frame launch of 2020, well, behind the Spur!
We ordered SIDLuxes for them from Rockshox, there was a delay in the order being given to RS themselves and in those three weeks the lead time jumped from 60 days to 160. It's now apparently 300 days+. We ordered a small batch of frames to arrive a few weeks before the shocks, then the shocks went back. First to November, then end of April. We actually have a Fox setup ready to ship, DPS Factory Remote with Orbea Squidlock lever, same as the build in that insta post, and hopefully the SIDLuxes will be here soon and it will be finally ready to list for official sale.
We won't pretend it's our design, although it is very close to what I would want. In an ideal world I would re-jig the pivots to get better seatpost insertion, but I still have an easy 160mm drop on the medium. It's an open mold frame that other manufacturers have access to (I have seen it being raced in XCO), we have worked to get a decent shock tune and a few finishing touches to hardware in the UK. I ordered the samples last year to test whether or not a short travel aggressive geo frame would work, with the idea to get a light hardtail built with similar geo in the UK. But then it arrived and we fell in love with it, honestly just a hoot to ride and suits our local stuff perfectly. So we ordered some more rather than doing the hardtail. The Spur is amazing too, or at least the two we have been able to sell are apparently!
Frame with DPS Factory + Squidlock is £2199 and with SIDLuxe is £1899.
A medium is 470 reach, 66 HA, 76.5 SA, 438 chainstay. Large goes to 500 reach and XL is 515 I think, from memory. Max 120mm front and 110mm rear.
My girlfriend and I fight over who gets to ride the sample I have here 🤣
Pigyn's FM936 looks great painted and a really really nice looking build!
I'd prefer the FM1001 though from Carbonda if you're going the open mold route and gets you 120-135mm rear, 140 up front, a litle closer geo to teh spur and I'm a fan of seatstays and top tube being close to in line. (Spur, Last Cinto)
Hats off to Pigyn as addressing the shock tunes and Chinese hardware weaknesses gives a great value add!
Maybe there's scope to have him delve into and improve other frames from Carbonda?
I'm about to pull the trigger on the FM1001...mostly because I have a 185x55 DPS and a 140mm 34 on hand.
I guess the Spur GX will come in at maybe 27-28lb, and a similar build on a FlareMAX at 32-33lb.
So with 'similar' builds you think that a Spur will come in 5lbs lighter?
Your definition of 'similar' is obviously different to mine...
Cube Stereo 29 looks similar, and can be had for <£2500. Not sure on real weight though.
intheborders
So with ‘similar’ builds you think that a Spur will come in 5lbs lighter?
Your definition of ‘similar’ is obviously different to mine…
The Spur frame is probably 3lb+ lighter than the FlareMAX, so perhaps not 5, but I think 3 or 4lb is realistic. Then comes the real question - does it really matter...
Frame with DPS Factory + Squidlock is £2199 and with SIDLuxe is £1899
Is that the same frame as a Vitus Rapide FS? Which is 2.5k for a whole bike.
Starling Murmur with short travel option? Might have some hope of actually getting one. Many good bikes suggested here...but can you actually get any of them? Got to say though, if I was in the market for something like a Spur, I think I'd be buying a Spur.
https://www.tweekscycles.com/transition-spur-gx-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2021-2012364/
Smuggler? Surely if you want a cheaper Spur that’s it
I couldn't afford so a spur so I have a smuggler.
The Smuggler, particularly the later SBG frames, were heavy AF. close to 9lb for the frame and shock. You'd have to work very hard and spend some serious coin to get one under 30lb, let alone the 26/27lb build for the Spur. FWIW, my Spur (large GX) was 12.4kg without pedals when I got it, it's now at 12.3kg (now with XT trail pedals) with a few upgrades.
Fair play Pigyn, they look great, is the frame the same as the NS Synonym? Looks very similar on paper. The only gripe I have is the seat tube on the large is super long, otherwise you're spot on, it's a very good comparison to the Spur. I just find it crazy NS charge so much for a catalogue frame built into a full bike!
There are quite a few boat anchors being recommended in a thread which says "not a boat anchor" in the title.
This may be available and fit the brief, though it's at the opposite end of the aesthetic spectrum to the Spur:
https://www.bird.bike/aether-9c/
The smuggler frame is a bit heavier yes, I have an XL so I’m aware of that!
I suppose it depends if you want to ride it or show your mates how light it is in the car park
But it boils down to light/strong/cheap pick 2
As other guys have previously posted I think the OP should just buy a Transition Spur. Its looks awesome in that grey/ash colour.
I was having the same thought process earlier this year and was looking for a "downcountry" FS bike and I narrowed it down to the Spur or YT Izzo. For me the Transition Spur just looked better.
However my budget changed (lowered unfortuantely) and I ended up buying a used Bird Aeris 120 which I have been more the happy with and fits the bill for the type of riding I do and was one fifth of the price of the Spur!
I suppose it depends if you want to ride it or show your mates how light it is in the car park
No need to be sulky.
I'm a huge fan of short-travel 29ers and I've owned quite a few and ridden a few more.
There's a big difference in feel and in capability between the heavy and light ones (and thus the kind of build that suits them).
I think the test for a "downcountry" bike is to ask "could I race XC on this in a pinch, and not be really frustrated?"
The Spur would likely pass that, the Smuggler or FlareMax wouldn't - for me. But then they'd be better for riding down mountains or racing the odd enduro.
Neither is "better", just the OP seems to want something light and lively.
I agree with chakaping.
The yeti sb115 and current trek top fuel would probably be the major contenders to the spur for my money.
No need to be sulky
Yeah sorry, that reads a bit more aggro than intended!
My point is there’s F all difference in reality, I’m currently sat on the loo loosing more weight than the difference in those 2 frames
I did fancy a spur but in the end it is just a fancy smuggler for more money, I get the OP wants light but that option costs more, right?
It’s a bit like ‘I need 4 pot brakes for my e bike’. No you don’t. An e bike weighs 10kg more than a normal one, which is way less than the variation between the weight of humans. You ‘need’ 4 pots for aggro riding/your unfit fat body/your massive bodybuilder muscles/your need for bling/etc
the difference between an alloy smuggler and a spur is going to be about 1.5kg in the frame i think, so you're not losing that much weight by going to the toilet unless you're chopping an arm off whilst you're in there. that's a big enough difference to alter the character and performance of the bike IMO.
we've a carbon smuggler and a spur in our household. there's a big overlap in intended usage, but for the OPs requirement, i think the Spur is the better choice. The Smuggler's main strength is being ridden fast downhill, on trails where you thought you needed a bigger bike. it climbs well for what it is, but not as well as the spur. you could make them more similar by putting bigger tyres on the spur, or lighter tyres on the smuggler, but i don't think that's what the designers intended.
Of course it is subjective but I’d say anyone claiming they can sense a 1-2% change in system mass spends too much time reading magazines and not enough time riding bikes
Obviously the OP is better off with a Spur and that’s what he should buy, no doubt there. Just drifting off on a tangent here
My point is there’s F all difference in reality, I’m currently sat on the loo loosing more weight than the difference in those 2 frames
I am always bewildered by this line of argument. Do people regularly go riding with a turtle sticking its head out?
(Disclaimer: I have a titanium bolt fetish and have weighed different pairs of shoes)
Agreed - I often wait in to unburden myself before the start of a ride, TBH.
I don’t think it’s a valid argument, more making a point on the silliness of saying that a tiny weight change changes ‘the handling characteristics’ of a bike
I too look at grams when buying components, but that’s because I want to and I don’t feel the need to justify it! My money my choice, I don’t need to make up some story about it to tell people. I like nice engineering and nice stuff
I am always bewildered by this line of argument. Do people regularly go riding with a turtle sticking its head out?
😃
Two more options that you probably can't buy:
Nukeproof Reactor ST
NS Synonym TR2
Another Smuggler jockey here - Al frame. A fine anchor that's ace when pointed downhill.
Agreed – I often wait in to unburden myself before the start of a ride, TBH.
"I'm just going to drop to race weight" is something heard often in our household.
@pigyin
If the hardtail version you’re talking about had existed this time last year I’d probably have bought it. I love my Solaris but I’d like it even more if it was a kg lighter! There’s a lot in the ‘bit more relaxed but probably steel and the frame is pushing 3kg’ group and a lot of xc bikes out there, along with a few ‘trail’ frames, but I haven’t seen much that has the same Xc bike weight with fun angles that FS bikes like the spur have.
Go on, buy the Spur, it’s what you really want and anything else will just have you wondering “what if?”
Go on, do it, do it, do it 😈
these threads can be quite interesting - amazing that something with a 5-6 lb frame like the Spur can be about 7-8 lbs lighter than something with a 8-9 lb frame, with similar builds
I reckon a pretty light trail ready build excluding frame is about 21 - 23 lbs