I'm looking for some roads wheels on ebay but am uncertain what to search for. What would be a good mid range wheelset for rim brakes and standard QRs? Mavic?
Definitely not a wanted ad (hello MODs) as I'm just looking to do some research.
Millions out there I reckon. A mate was thinking of selling a pair that he paid 300 quid for only to find them selling on ebay for 50 quid.
My Dura Ace spec ones are nearly worthless. Got 17 pairs of rim brake wheels doing nowt in the shed. Kept purely as I don't want to give them away.
Loads of choice - but Mavic Kysriums are decent / should be loads about. Hunt wheels are pretty good for the money. Not sure if the Hope 20five came in rim brake but they’re solid.
Avoid Ritchey - they have terrible freehubs and the rims are soft and wear quickly in my experience. I replaced them with bottom of the range Mavic Aksiums on a previous bike and they were lighter / quicker engaging / more durable etc.
I can't fault my Fulcrums, stuff and spin well, easy to maintain as well with (much easier to adjust than Shimano) cup and cone bearings. Perhaps wouldn't be my choice if riding in the wet frequently as apparently seals aren't great.
Failing that, a DT Swiss wheelset? I'm forever tempted by a pair of these even though I don't have a bike to put them on, easily and cheaply replaced R460 rims, smooth and tough 350 hubs, good weight for the money.
rims are soft and wear quickly in my experience
This is my experience with Kinlin rims which I thought are what Hunt et al typically use, has put me off any Hunt/Silt etc. now.
Pacenti Forza wheels used to be a good price, hubs are nothing special but good rims which are marginally wider than equivalent DTs/Kinlins, and they look smart too if that matters
Forgot about dt swiss - never had a bad set of their wheels, although equally never had any of their road wheels- only mtb.
I sold a pair of Hope Pro2 + Mavic Open Pro about a year or so back, with near new rims (had been re rimmed then managed to get a disc braked bike on B2W).
I recall there were a few others on sale on fleabay back then.
Got the base Ksyrium without the alloy nipples, Aksiums and my best are Dura Ace hubs with CXP33's on my best vintage bike.
Had Ksyriums which were good, Aksiums which were less so, and Cosmics which were wild and sounded great.
Handbuilt is a safe bet, H Plus Son Archetypes to 105 hubs is a great mid range set. I currently have Chris King R45’s laced to Mavic Open Pros which are pretty darn good all round wheels.
Lightest I ever had were a pair of FFWD F2R tubular rims on DT 180 hubs. Under a kilo for the pair. Felt incredible to ride, but not ideal for commuting on!
I have a set of kyserium SLSs that I'm looking to sell, good condition and fit your requirements. Message me if you're interested?
I would get those ^^ (not necessarily from that person) if your bike can take the rather outdated looking 'styling' of them
One thing to consider with Mavic is they stop spares support after 5 years which means that ‘best’ wheels used sparingly are often scrap by the time you need something replacing.
Go tubeless
Check if superstar have anything
I bought some fantastic Scribe carbon wheels for £280 which seems to be the going rate, but they were disc. I think there's a rim brake version.
I’ve got a very fancy set of FFWD 50mm deep carbon aero jobbies which I never use.
BUT 10 speed and are tubs. Better suited to a time trial set up. I keep thinking I’ll build a super fancy summer bike but I know I won’t.
As a serial wheel hoarder I still have several pairs of rim brake wheels. All of them are handbuilts. 2 pairs have the HPLUSSON archetype rims. I’m a sucker for a Royce hub so have two sets with them. Honestly archetype rims with mid range sapim spokes and a 105 level hub would be superb.
I believe Ksyrium Exalith to be the best aluminium road wheels ever made.
So there you go OP, you can pretty much buy all of the secondhand QR, rim brake road wheels for the price of one new set of disc wheels.
I'll add another vote for a nice pair of Ksyrium Elites, especially if you have a "softer" feeling frame.
But my favourite mid-range wheels were Shimano RS81s.
Similar weight to the Mavics but a more comfy feel and overall about as fast.
I used to run Ksyriums, they were the best well over a decade ago. I wouldn't get the same now. The new ones are generally ok until you need to remove a tyre roadside, and then they're not. Proprietary essential replacement parts from a company with an unknown future should also sensibly be a concern, sadly (for a huge Mavic fan). If you want an Alu wheelset then in my experience the Zonda/Shamal from Campy or the Fulcrum equivalent are now better. IMO the Shamal Ultra is the finest Alu wheelset ever made.... It's possible to sometimes find them at a reasonable sale price.
I was going to say Zipp 303 as I assumed they had come down in price now, but they are still really expensive!
They are by far the best wheelset I have ever owned though. Really tough, really fast, really powerful braking for rims (if a little noisy), look good too !
Those Vision wheelsets look a good deal https://www.merlincycles.com/factory-road-wheels-75320/?sort=price-min
Nothing jumps out to me in the "EXTRA15" https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wheel-sets/flash-sale?ris=1&o=2&range=ne#breadcrumbs
I can’t fault my Fulcrums, stuff and spin well, easy to maintain as well with (much easier to adjust than Shimano) cup and cone bearings.
Came here to say this
Scribe have a sale on discontinued aluminium wheels currently, I bought some of the 365D for my winter/gravel bike.
Already have a set of Pace and 3850 carbon rim models, been very happy with them.
https://scribecycling.co.uk/collections/discontinued-models
I used to run Ksyriums, they were the best well over a decade ago. I wouldn’t get the same now.
I was curious about the Mavic recommendations, had got the impression that Mavic were a bit behind the times with rim width and that the hub design wasn't really all that great?
Compared to e.g. a similarly priced DT wheelset from a company with pedigree in aftermarket hubs, spokes AND rims I've never really seen the attraction in the Mavic wheels.
But then I guess you could say similar about Fulcrum and I will be buying Fulcrum again for my good bike when the time comes
Edit: I take it back, the Ksyrium SL looks pretty current for a relatively shallow rim, 19mm internal.
DT R460 rims on DT hubs were popular on mid range bikes. Although I'm not a fan of their hub noise on a road bike.
Shimano Ultegra, or the ulterga-ish non-series version (ultegra rims, 105 hubs) were really good VFM even when new, silent and bombproof.
If it's for a summer bike go nuts lookig for the most expensive and lightest wheels. If it's a year round bike stick with shimano as they don't play the game and left a sensible amount of material in the brake tracks. I've got Stans Alpha rims for the summer, but people have trashed them in just a couple of months wet riding before!
Got 17 pairs of rim brake wheels doing nowt in the shed. Kept purely as I don’t want to give them away.
say what now... !!!
How big is the shed !!!!
Re: Mavic, Rim width should be sensibly maxed out around 19c internal for rim braked bikes, so isn't much of a differentiator - as many older frame designs would be pushing the limit of tyre clearance with a 25c tyre... my 2014 design is pushing right to the limit with 18c internal with Gp5000 25, though obviously varies enormously with frame design - go for the maximum width you can squeeze in.
Hub design and ease of bearing service to prolong lifespan is at the tiptop of my list when choosing wheels. Mavic have gone through some dodgy hub design patches, no idea what the current iteration is like. The Campy/ Fulcrum ones with cup and cone are excellent, minimal servicing keeps them like new... on the spangly ones with ceramics it's even possible to replace the hub shell bearing race if they wear, great design for longevity.
Honestly archetype rims with mid range sapim spokes and a 105 level hub would be superb.
Interesting how different people have different experiences -
I had a set of H PLUS SON Archetype rims on Hope hubs which i thought were total garbage - they were constantly going out of true. I eventually eventually gave up had the hubs rebuilt into new wheels with Pacenti rims, which have been faultless.
My recommendation would be Pacenti Forza rims with your choice of hub - i've got two sets (1 rim and 1 disc) both on Hope hubs.
had a set of H PLUS SON Archetype rims on Hope hubs which i thought were total garbage – they were constantly going out of true
One of the online wheelbuilders (Strada) stated they had stopped using Archetypes for a while due to issues maintaining spoke tension etc. They've since updated and said quality has improved so maybe there was a bad batch.
+1 for Forzas though, I wore a set out doing too much muddy winter gravel (still got 18 months out of them) and replaced with Kinlin equivalents which were exactly the same shape but half the price. Haven't been impressed though, seem to leave more swarf in the brake pad and seem to have dinged the front rim incredibly easily.
Will build an R460 wheelset for winter use as those rims are relatively cheap to buy replacements for. Forzas are expensive so dry weather use only I think!
Rather than looking on Ebay for secondhand that may cost more in the long run and have an unknown service history, have a look at new Shimano through your local Madison/Freewheel local bike shop. In my experience some of their cheaper wheels are exceptional quality and reasonable weight. Yes they’re cup and cone bearings but they’re a lot easier to adjust now for those of you who can’t work two spanners at the same time..
Parts backup is far superior than any other brand - this is of course in my experience- I’m sure others will now chip in!
Hope this helps.
Dura Ace hubs and Mavic CXP33 rims will last forever and ride better than you can imagine. Now very unfashionable. You could push the boat out for some Phil Wood hubs, but stick with either Open Pro or CXP33 rims. Fine for 25/28c tyres.
Running 25c on my CXP33's - can't get much more on my Steel vintage road bikes, and they 'look the part'.
Hi. I have a boxed new set of Shimano RS81 11 speed wheels sitting doing nothing if you're interested.
This is all relevant to my needs…was literally this morning going to ask what “nice, summer, semi-aero (ish)” wheels for a 2019 rim brake giant TCR.
Excuse my ignorance but how much attention should I pay to rim width?
Do manufacturers state a specific max width for a given frame or if I just buy a relatively common pair of wheels from a well known wheel manufacturer will it be a moot point and they’ll just fit?
Is there a widely accepted “best” width at the moment? I don’t think the TCR has super big tolerances, not even sure I can put 28” tyres on.
Excuse my ignorance but how much attention should I pay to rim width?
Go as wide as you can within reason to get all the modern advantages of increased air volume, lower pressure- so comfort and more tyre wall cornering support - and be aware that modern tyres are shaped in the assumption of a modern wide rim, ie: gp4000 to 5000 changes. Working out the maximum without physically trying it in the frame is not so easy but can be done by measuring the frames limiting aperture (usually chainstay) against known rim specs and trying to guess how that will affect your normal tyre shape. I did it on a very tight frame and going from 15c-18c internal made a big difference to tyre shape, and can run almost 10psi lower... but she can nae take anymore captain.
Being aware that a wider rim plumps up a tyre, what you absolutely don't want to happen is for the tyre to rub against the frame, Alu or carbon, a tyre will make surprisingly short work of wearing a hole right through a tube -seen it so often that a lot of people must be unaware that this can happen, and for a time pre-disc everyone was squeezing in the biggest tyres they could find....
For this reason you should have at least 3mm clearance either side to accommodate wheel flex under cornering and also as backup incase you get a buckle mid ride. Tight clearance can also occur at the calliper height as mounting hole height and crown designs vary enormously - also for older brake callipers you may find they don't open wide enough for a wide modern rim without putting the block at a funny angle where over 25mm external rim width could be a problem. 2019 generation component spec should be fine though in that regard... as should your tyre clearance as most manufacturers had worked out by then that wider was much better - pre- 2016/17 can be very limited depending on bike.
Excellent, thank you so much 👍
Just to add to that excellent summary, the TCR is a very popular bike - I'd get searching for online comments from owners saying what rims and tyres they've got away with.
Personally I liked a bit more than 3mm clearance on my carbon frames, those wheels can really bend when you're laying down the watts.
You'd hope a 2019 bike would take 28c, but brands actual sizes vary quite a bit.
also for older brake callipers you may find they don’t open wide enough for a wide modern rim without putting the block at a funny angle where over 25mm external rim width could be a problem
Just to add to this - Swissstop do their BXP pads in an 'evo' model, which basically shaves about 0.75mm off each pad thickness to assist with clearing wider rims. Basically pre-worn! 😎
If you want maximum aero performance (not a concern for everyone) tyre width should ideally closely track rim width, ie: a gp5000 25 sits perfectly on a 25-26mm external rim, giving a smooth transition. You can fit a 28c tyre on a 25mm external rim, but you'll effectively nullify some of the aero gains of a deeper rim section, as well as risking a bit of sidewall flop at low pressure. Matching a 28c tyre to a rim with 28mm external dimensions would be right at the limit of what some brands were toying with on rim width before the switch to disc allowed them to go even wider still....
26mm external rim width was perfectly normal for a while but a few brands were doing 28/29mm external but it really starts to push it. But if you can squeeze that in the frame then a 28c tyre on a 28 external rim width would give most of the benefits that the disc revolution has brought to ride comfort.
I believe Ksyrium Exalith to be the best aluminium road wheels ever made.
Of which I have a pair not being used at the moment.
You’d hope a 2019 bike would take 28c, but brands actual sizes vary quite a bit.
The problem was that rim brakes were sized in an era where 25c was a big tyre. You physically can't fit a 28c* between the rim and the caliper irrespective of the frame unless it was running long drop brakes. It's the unsung benefit of disks on road bikes that it allowed modern tyres to be a thing at all.
*just checked, the last rim braked shimano groupsets filed this out to 28c, I've got 7800's and they a little polished mark where the flashing off the Schwalbe 25c's rubbed, albeit those 25C's actually measured 27.a bit, you could squeeze a 28c in there if the rim was perfectly straight and the tyre was exactly true to size.
Mavic's are nice until they go wrong in my experience. Parts are expensive to replace and they had nipples seize in both my pairs which two different LBSs told me was super common.
I bought a pair of DCR vivaldi last year which are pretty wide rims and nice and stiff <1500g, £300. Very happy with them although never really owned super expensive wheelsets. They use Kinlin rims though which someone above mentioned being a bit soft/non durable. Also no wear indicators on them.
https://dcrwheels.co.uk/signature-wheelsets-2/
They use Kinlin rims though which someone above mentioned being a bit soft/non durable.
Yeah, somehow irreparably dinged my front rim without even feeling it or puncturing the tyre. Will be running inserts from now on 😭
I'm still trying to understand what half of the comments above mean.
The wheels will be for my road bike in Spain (well Basque Country). It's an Orbed Avant and now I've resprayed it the white Superstar wheels look a bit strange. They have lasted well and are lightish.
My favourite local road soon to be used for the Tour..
https://goo.gl/maps/4GLWkDPWkWSQ6hsP8
Anyone have experience w Mavic Cosmic Elite USTs?
My lad has just bought a pair going cheap on Merlin, and wondering what tyres are a good match.
He should have looked at this thread first of course....
Thanks
Anyone have experience w Mavic Cosmic Elite USTs?
I had some for a year and like them. I had them on a CX bike and used in all weathers and they held up well. I completely bent one of the rims when installing a VERY tight tubeless tyre and even managed to get a replacement rim from BikeInn for £50.
They felt fast to ride even though they are not particularly aero or light but for the £199 I paid they were very good.
I've got a pair of the exalith mavics. Pricey when I bought them. Mine are metal front spokes and half the rear are carbon. Great wheels. Think I'll be selling them this year as the road bike is sitting on cheap wheels on the turbo.
More tangents than a clementine on this thread!
I was under the impression that the original question was asking advice about budget to mid range wheelsets?
My Shimano recommendation still stands, readily available spares and you don’t have to buy a whole wheel of spokes if one breaks.
Hope this helps OP!!
Thanks @kerley, I'd read about the challenge of getting tyres on elsewhere.
Reading around it seems Hutchinson might be the best bet, used to produce the Yksion for Mavic.
The thing is, with rim braked wheels now being apparently just for heritage restomod builds (tongue in cheek, as a disc denier) - it is possible to get some amazing deals on great wheels in the sales if you shop around... I got some Fulcrums at near half rrp this winter purposefully so that I can keep my rim braked bike going as long as possible. At that time I saw Shamal's/ Zonda's massively reduced, so if you shop wisely you might just net some of the last generation of top rim wheels, which also just happen to be some of the best ever made... so should keep you going for a long while. At the time I was looking CRC had some Mavic's at near 40%+ off, but its probably a question of timing... In a few years time it may get hard to find stock of good road rim braked wheels so get them while they're hot.
I have a barely used set of 1500gm XLR8 rims just needing a spoke tightened up
They use Kinlin rims though which someone above mentioned being a bit soft/non durable. Also no wear indicators on them.
Well this turned out to be true. 2 years and ~3500km on the wheels I've managed to ding the rear rim without getting a puncture. The rear rim had already gone a little bit concave. Looking at £50 for the same rims again plus £40 for LBS re-rim labour, or a different rim would need new spokes too. Also discovered my bearings need replacing - I don't own drifts or presses so would probably just LBS that too, meaning I'm looking at about £120-130 to get the wheel back into good nick and then possibly another £90 to replace the rim in 2 years time. The Aksiums these wheels replaced I had for 8 years, more kms and were still in good enough nick to sell 2nd hand with a good conscience.
Don't like to bin things but considering just getting a 105 hub / DT Swiss R460 wheel for ~£130 and then hopefully will save money on future service as can do cup&cone myself and the rims should last longer.
Suppose I should have done a bit more homework on the rims before I bought and not chased light wheels at mid price range.