[Closed] What UK short travel 29er made of metal?

I got a stage evo frame on the scheme 😉

Cotic - Flare or Jeht?

The other brand starting with S, that make a really pretty steel full suspension bike with really clean lines.... dammit... can't think of the name

Edit... Swarf, the Swarf Contour

Ooh, forgot about Swarf, and looks they have a new 130mm model coming soon too. FlareMAX could be one to add to the list as well!

Recommend what you’ve got etc. Bird aether9…

Starling Murmur Trail. 👍

Cotic Flaremax, it's a great bike.

Recommend what you’ve got etc. Bird aether9…

It’s a UK brand, but I’m pretty sure the bikes aren’t made here.

Was going to suggest a Clandestine Combe, but doesn’t look like it’s a production model yet.

Morph? Think there’s an owner on here.

https://www.morphcycles.co.uk/first-edition-frames

The Starling Murmur is absolutely gorgeous - especially the stainless version. Ticks all the boxes, but is pretty spendy!

I love my segment (two, maybe 3 generations earlier than the current equivalent, the stage Evo).

Do everything from EWS courses to twentyfour12 events on it. Had to pick the car up this afternoon, went on the segment and it put a grin on my face.

I read the reviews where it struggled at the extreme range but I've never been near the edge of its short travel abilities. I weigh over 100kg too.

Sonder Cortex?

I looked at the Swarf Contour, drooled over one for a long time even. However, apparently he's not making them any more and is now focussing on a new 155mm rear travel enduro rig.

Thanks Matt - not looked at Sonder, but that's a great price for the NX Eagle model. Definitely one to add to the shortlist.

Shame Swarf are leaving the shorter travel, maybe it'd be best to keep an eye out on the used market for a Contour.

Is 140 short enough? These are lovely.

https://www.ra-bikes.com/20

150-160mm fork probably rules it out I’d have thought…

@sillyoldman - my head says too much travel, but my heart REALLY wants to justify that RA. It's really something else, especially in that drab green!

Sonder Cortex?

And

It’s a UK brand, but I’m pretty sure the bikes aren’t made here.

Their website says designed and built by us but doesn't say made by us. It implies they make a proto type here and then send to their partners.

If they were made in the UK they would be double the price!

I’d like it to be as simple as possible, made of metal (and ideally in the UK too),

But Its a great bike, at a great price

The new Sirius S5 120mm travel 29er

Big fan of Pipedream, having owned an Alice before (which is still the bike I clocked the most miles on of any bike I've owned I think) but looking for a full suss really as it'll need to be different enough to my MK4 to justify the expenditure. *EDIT* forgot about The Full Moxie, maybe a bot too much travel though...

Good point RE the Cortex. I did say 'ideally' UK made, and I would stand by that but it's not a deal breaker per-se. I just think with so many great UK made bikes from the likes of Orange/Cotic as well as loads of smaller manufacturers, it makes sense to get one that's not flown half way around the world and supports UK manufacturers.

I'm this >< close to ordering a Stage Evo frame, to replace a longer travel trail bike and a hardtail.

Had a Stage 4, loved it, raced XC and Enduro on it. The only issues were the dinky short stroke dps shock gets a bit overwhelmed when you are really hauling through rocks, no bottle bosses and the geo was good but not quite perfect

Stage Evo fixes all 3. Bigger piggy back shock, bosses, longer, slacker, lower.

I had a sit on one at the weekend and my credit card is quaking. The paint finish, decals etc have really come on since 2018 too, it looked really good. Some great colours to choose now not just big standard gloss powder coats.

Price has gone up this week though from Orange. Expensive, but I still think worth it. I'm almost talking myself into it never mind the OP.

Stage 4 sounds like it could work for me though as my local trails are more techy singletrack than rocky outcrops, and it's use case is shorter blasts where I'd be happy to either leave a bottle in the van or take a camelbak. Either way, both the Stage 4 and Stage Evo seem like they'd definitely fit the bill - could do with finding a local one for a test ride...

That being said though, I'm very drawn the the Starling/Swarf/RA offerings as I am a sucker for boutique, it'll just come down to cost as I'll be looking at a full build so would be ideal to get the F&F on C2W and then do the rest of the build from the classifieds!

Not fully UK made but a Uk company using a bespoke builder in France. Plans to bring it fully to the UK. Morph Cycles do a fast 140mm trail bike. Custom geo. Very well built. They have tested the bike in Scotland hard over 2 winters.

[url] https://www.morphcycles.co.uk/ [/url]
Test rider
[url] https://www.instagram.com/instagruhm/?hl=en/url}

I just think with so many great UK made bikes from the likes of Orange/Cotic as well as loads of smaller manufacturers, it makes sense to get one that’s not flown half way around the world and supports UK manufacturers.

Last time I was at orange and spoke to the owner he told me not all orange frames are made in Halifax. Some of the cheaper hardtails are made "abroad" (it might have changed now)

A quick Google shows

BUILT IN Britain April 02 2020

We work with partners all over the world to source many of our our frames and components, today we’re talking specifically about the British built models

If UK made is important to you, make sure you check and don't just take a British company on face value. In order to compete at the lower end of the market they will order from China / Taiwan etc which doesn't mean the quality of the frame is any different, it just means its got a bigger carbon foot print and manufacturing processes might not be very environmentally friendly and there's not a lot of info for you to check

I've just dropped the fork on my Murmur to 140. Feels like that's what it should have been all along. It running absolutely amazing now.

FWIW I was able to build a well specced Murmur for a bit less than 4k.

Orange fabiracted (sheet metal) suspension bikes are UK made, the hardtails etc are made abroad, that's been well known for decades.

I think all the UK brands are very clear where each of their frames are made. Well, the ones that use a combination of UK & Taiwan based builders, anyway.

That was my understanding @snotrags, I'm not against a bike made abroad at all - but there just seems to be so many nice bikes in this category made in the UK I'd be a fool not to explore those options before just buying a Stump Jumper for example.

That's exactly why I don't think the (admittedly high) pricing on the Stage Evo frame is outrageous. The full builds are poor but I'd never buy one of those. The frames are worth it though I think. Lovely, lovely things.

Recommend the one I've got, Cotic Flare Max.

And frame built in Scotland if you get the 'early' run.

Does everything.

Enjoying my stage 5 and personally love the look of the oranges. Reckon that stage evo would be ace. They've been great to deal with too.

I am quite heavily biased towards Orange, on account of the Steve Peat poster on my childhood bedroom wall, but haven't owned one yet so a suitable bike from Halifax would be very high on the list. One of my LBS's are an Orange dealer too so I think next step is to get a test ride on a Stage.

Other bikes are harder to source for a test ride, but did notice that Starling will send you a test bike which is pretty damn good service!

I have Snotrag's old Stage 4, which I've fitted with a -2deg headset and 130mm fork to give it more contemporary geometry.

I really bloody love it, and that could be an option if you're open to a secondhand bike/frame (just go up a size to get a better reach figure).

It's true the 110mm travel rear can get slightly out of it's depth, but I've been surprised how closely I can follow long-travel bikes.

The Stage Evo looks tremendous and all makes the changes I would have done to the S4 (bit more travel, longer rear, steeper seat tube).

On a more general note, I'd like to highlight the contrast between the Orange and some of the other great bikes mentioned - particularly the Starling and Cotic.

I've ridden and have friends with both of those, and the Orange is waaaay more sprightly and poppy - it rides much lighter than the weight would suggest. The Starling and Cotic are much more steady and planted, and let you go into enduro bike territory much more comfortably.

HTH

Following with interest. I've been considering an Aether 9 but the Sonder Cortex might fit my riding better. Starling are only a few streets away from me so that is tempting but a bit more travel and money than I was planning.

You're welcome to have a shot on my Murmur if you're likely to be near Innerleithen.

@chakaping, the more I research, the more Orange FS 29ers I find - didn't know about the Alpine Five or the Segment (which looks like it'd smash the brief!). More than happy to look 2nd hand - haven't bought a new bike in my life!

Interesting about the differences between the Orange and the Starling/Cotic - a test ride on a modern Orange Stage 4 should be easy to sort - the others less so. Really appreciate the offer @militantmandy, but I'm in SW Devon so a bit of a Trek - the factory is only in Bristol though so not too far away...

@chakaping, the more I research, the more Orange FS 29ers I find – didn’t know about the Alpine Five or the Segment (which looks like it’d smash the brief!). More than happy to look 2nd hand – haven’t bought a new bike in my life!

Well here's my review of the Stage 4, in case it helps further.

I've since changed the fork for a 130mm Pike, which has been a massive improvement for a tiny bit more weight.

Another vote for the stage 4 - had it for 18 months as replacement frame for the segment which cracked.  Great simple frame.  Just bought a Cotic Jeht - its the next level up and I love it but then the spec on it is twice the price.

On the Orange tack, i have an Orange Gyro. Its the predecessor of the Segment.

It must be 8+ yrs old. I put a -2° angleset in it, and fitted a dropper post. Then it had the Fox 120mm 32s replaced by a pr of Pikes at 140mm. It has a CCDB il air with the climb switch. Its great to ride!

Yes its not the longest lowest slackest bike, but its really good. I would say that my only real criticism is the longish seat tube that means my 30" inseam on a medium only allows me to run a 125mm drop Reverb. I have a little post showing and a lower profile post like an one-up may allow a 150, but i dont have internal routing, so id have to drill the frame. The swinging arm makes the location for drilling a little tricky

So, im guessing a segment would be ace if you cant find a Stage 4 or evo

Ian

@breninbeener that was my issue too - average height but short legs. I could only run a 100mm Reverb dropper in my large frame at 5ft 10.

I've spent hours poring over the geo and sat on a large Stage Evo at the weekend - I can now go for a Medium, get the TT/Reach I want but will have much, much more room for a longer dropper (along with the improvement in dropper post design).

The flipside to it is - you can at least fit posts right in unlike many many other frames as the seat tube is a straight tube right to the BB (unlike Cotic for instance).

Heres a Stage 4 doing Stage 6 things.

Stage 4, Five (29er variant) and Segment all very much up there. I think for those kind of bikes I’ll either look for a complete used, or maybe F&F separate and build from there, as I’d no doubt rebuild a complete eventually anyway!

Also going to keep an eye out for used Starling offerings but don’t think I’ll go for a new one as for the money I don’t think it’ll be perfect for me, but are still lovely lovely things and I can handle it not quite being perfect if I wasn’t dropping the better part of 2k on a new frame.

Not mine, but I see a lovely medium, UK-made Cotic FlareMAX gen4 full bike appear in the classifieds this afternoon.

I was VERY close to ordering a XL FlareMAX gen4 frame to replace my Tallboy 3 a couple of months ago - the geometry and suspension style really appealed to me. In the end I found a used-but-new Nicolai Saturn 14 frame instead for less which I preferred (on paper at least) the geometry of. If it hadn't been for that lucky find, I'd say the answer to what UK short travel 29er could easily be a FlareMAX.

Yes that FlareMAX is properly nice - but if I was spending that much I’d need to be using C2W which would write off used bikes.

At the moment, a used bike under £2k (complete or bits bought separately) would be one option, the other being buying a brand spankers F&F on C2W and then buying the other parts separately and using the parts bin to build up.

that was my issue too – average height but short legs. I could only run a 100mm Reverb dropper in my large frame at 5ft 10.

I've got a 170mm dropper in it and I'm 5ft 8in on a good day. Probably shouldn't tell you that though 😉

Also going to keep an eye out for used Starling offerings

Not to labour my previous point, but the Starling and Stage 4 (or Evo) will ride really differently.

I'm often tempted by a Starling myself TBH, but to replace my Stage 6 - and it would be heavier and slower uphill than that.

The Stage 4 is a singletrack rocket by comparison. Much better choice for local woods & trail centres IMO.

a11y

In the end I found a used-but-new Nicolai Saturn 14 frame instead for less which I preferred (on paper at least) the geometry of.

Damn, would love one of those. Although swapping the 51 offset 140mm 34 on my G13 for a short offset 150 Lyrik has just transformed the bike. Not sure if it's just a better fork, or the higher front/shorter offset is helping it, but I'm enjoying the bike so much more. I just like the Saturn 'cos it's prettier.

The annoying thing is that I know you’re right @chakaping and I’d probably regret not getting a Stage 4 (in this entirely fictional situation where a Starling comes up at the right price), they’re just so bloody gorgeous!

I jest - this’ll be the most I’ve dropped on a bike (in one hit anyway) so want to make sure it’s right, not just that it looks sexy - although that does help!

I would love a Starling too - for the ride feel and the stunning looks.

Get a large and drop me a line if things don't work out.

😉

So, news:

Stage 4 out of budget, no matter which way I cut it. Spoke to Starling but supply issues and overall build cost put pay to that too - and while there was a lovely Swoop on Pinkbike I listened to the advice from @chakaping and stuck to my guns with Orange for my ‘fun over fast’ brief.

So, eBay came up trumps this morning and after a bit of negotiation I have now bought an Alpine Five (140mm 29er) frame and Cane Creek DB shock, which I think is going to be bang on for those weekly night rides in the woods. I’ll be building it up slowly over the winter but looking forward to getting stuck in.

TL;DR - listened to STW advice. Bought an Orange Alpine Five frame and shock. On the scrounge for parts!

Alpine Five (140mm 29er) frame

Hmm, just looking at the geometry and it's a good 50mm shorter on Reach than newer stuff - sorry, but I couldn't go back to that.

True, but I checked it against my Stooge Mk4 (446mm which is the limit of reach for me with a 35mm stem) and the Orange is 420mm so not miles different. Planning on running a 50mm stem.

I’m not the tallest chap so a short-ish medium is generally a good fit for me.

Is the Stooge a hardtail though? Hardtails get a longer reach when fork sag is taken into account - full suss bikes don’t as both ends sag.

420mm reach is really short - I’m 5’9 with longer legs and shorter arms - and my bike is a 457mm reach and I’m running a 50mm stem. Mine’s quite a modern seat tube angle so if anything mine feels good standing up and a little short sat down. I reckon I could go up to 465 - 470 reach and I’d be just about comfortable. I did have a bike with a 481mm reach and the at was a step too far - I found on flat high speed turns I struggled to get enough weight on the front wheel sometimes.

You might find as the Orange has a slack seat tube angle that it feels ok sitting down but a bit too short standing up.

The chainstays are showing as 455mm long ba the reach of 420mm. Bit bizarre unless Orange measure their chainstays from the actual pivot rather than from the bb.

Congrats firstly, but agree 420 is quite short not just now but even at the time the Alpine Five was new/current. I'm further up (literally) the height scale at 6'1 and recently changed both my frames and went from 470 to 535mm reach on one, and 475 to 519mm on the other, keeping same stem lengths. Noticeable changes but not unnatural feeling as other attributes changed too.

Damn, would love one of those. Although swapping the 51 offset 140mm 34 on my G13 for a short offset 150 Lyrik has just transformed the bike. Not sure if it’s just a better fork, or the higher front/shorter offset is helping it, but I’m enjoying the bike so much more. I just like the Saturn ‘cos it’s prettier.

@honourablegeorge,I barely need an excuse but it is indeed pretty:

@joebristol - it is but it's rigid so no sag to take into account. Let's see when it arrives and I can throw a test stem/bars on - the 2nd hand market seems pretty strong for Orange's especially, just hope it's not a false start!

I know sizing is a bit of moving target now in the MTB space, but with that being said, I just can't see how (at 5ft 6 and a bit) I would be on a large of any bike...

I know sizing is a bit of moving target now in the MTB space, but with that being said, I just can’t see how (at 5ft 6 and a bit) I would be on a large of any bike…

Wasn't saying you should be, but in every size that Orange is well short compared to my Flare Max.

abingham

True, but I checked it against my Stooge Mk4

Stooge is a bit of a unique shape though, not sure it's directly comparable to most other bikes

@a11y - that Saturn is lovely

It will at least give you an idea of what you like or don't like and help you when you come to buy your next bike.

Some great colours to choose now not just big standard gloss powder coats.

I guess we're all different. I look at the Orange web site and am disappointed that all those fancy colour options no longer exist. Where are the fun neon colours of yesteryear? There are basically only two colours on offer now, orange or blue. All the others are just shades of grey or brown and you couldn't pay me to ride something that dull. But clearly that's what the market wants and it saves me lusting over a new frame that I don't need.

roverpig

Where are the fun neon colours of yesteryear?

A lot of brands went that way - Transition and Snata cruz had years when they only did bikes in 1970s bathroom suite colours