After washing the bike after a wet muddy ride is there anything to spray a little bit of into the suspension pivots just to drive out the water and lube them a bit? I usually use a bit of GT85 but have a feeeling that it might be a de-greaser.
No idea whether it's any better of an idea, but I use a silicone spray.
I wouldn't use gt85
Tbh im not convinced by washing the bike at all, im sure i read an interview with the Transition owner saying wiping down with a wet cloth after it had dried was the hest thing to do
(but i know we all love a shiny bike
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As above, don't wash the bike, just let it dry and brush off the dirt. If you do wash the bike, don't wash the suspension pivots - if water can get, you're driving grit into the bearings. Spraying lube on won't drive water out.
As above... most times I use one of those car cleaning brushes that you can attach to a hose and brush the bike down (but with the brush stand-alone, not attached to a hose). If I do any hosing it is with one of those very low pressure garden fence sprayer with a fine spray.
Spraying lube on won’t drive water out.
The 'WD' in WD40 stands for Water Dispersant, but it has the disadvantage of also dissolving grease so not the best thing for pivots.
compressed air would be the best thing to use to dry the bike before putting it away if you had a compressor (I don't). I've definitely had issues in the past when I've cleaned a bike and put it away wet, not ridden it for ages and found something seized.
compressed air would be the best thing to use to dry the bike before putting it away
It'll blow water and grit into the bearings.
Nothing, bearings are sealed.
I hose my bikes down.
Never had a problem in 25 years of full sus bikes.
My approach is to avoid driving water and dirt into them, so whilst the frame and wheels gets a "good wash" any areas around the pivots are treated much more gently - "get them wet" rather than blast them, and then use a soft brush to get the dirt off (muc-off make a great one - quite large and also soft - shifts most dirt easily once it's wet).
The bearings are sealed behind rubber seal with the grease inside, so if you do the above you should be able to avoid getting any muck past the seals. Anything left outside of the seals themselves is just cosmetic dirt so best not be too fussy about cleaning it too perfectly.
Given the above - spraying WD40 / GT86 will make no difference so long as it's only outside of the rubbers seals, and if you're getting the spray inside the seals to the bearings themselves then you've got a much bigger problem going on - so I'd say if you want to then go ahead, but it's the gentle washing approach that will actually make the difference.
Ditto Nothing. Really important not to do this, nothing you try to put in will be better than what the bearing is packed with. Best to avoid even directing water at your pivots when cleaning, especially not a pressure washer, try just to wipe off that area - cleaning sprays tend to easily get behind seals and start deteriorating the grease, and you wouldn't want to run a bearing with gt85 or similar as your only lube.
If you feel the bearings have lost their grease/ feel gritty one can carefully pick the seal, flush out with something like isopropyl alcohol, repack with best grease - stick tape around the end of a pencil jammed in to a powerdrill to spin-up the inner race as can help to relieve the notchiness induced from a normal pivots lack of rotation.
i read an interview with the Transition owner saying wiping down with a wet cloth after it had dried was the hest thing to do
Where did they live/ride? This sounds ideal for places other than deep shit and mud UK.
Where did they live/ride? This sounds ideal for places other than deep shit and mud UK.
Bellingham I believe. Actually not that different from the UK at times.
It's all too easy to get caught up in marketing hype and buy loads of products. But in all honesty, trying to use a specific spray to lube/clean/help suspension pivots is just not worthwhile. The majority of bikes use sealed bearings on pivots. As such its a bit pointless trying to lube them with a spray as the rubber seals will prevent any ingress of your magical lube-in-a-can.
The same goes for all those cleverly marketed suspension lubes. Yes, they smell nice, and leave a shiny feel on metalwork but they also can cause premature perishing of the nitrile rubber due to the propellants and chemicals. They're far from a being a 'service in a can' as one of them proudly boasts on the can.
Whenever I see cracked and perished seals on forks and shocks I always ask customers if they use suspension lubes, and its always a resounding yes!
matt-outandabout what sort of bush? I wash mine against a privet hedge, it’s evergreen and non scratchy!
@wheelsonfire1
I can always spot the muc-off users due to the faded anodising on fork and shock adjusters.
matt-outandabout what sort of bush? I wash mine against a privet hedge, it’s evergreen and non scratchy!
One that plugs onto my hose and runs water through, plus a cheap-as household dustpan brush with very long soft bristles we had lying around! Between both of them it gets most much shifted. I tend to light spray with water, brush well, then rinse off.
I do have a couple of 'proper' bike drivetrain brushes too.
matt-outandabout what sort of bush?
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Can I ask what people are doing with muc off to get it to strip the anodising? I use it but it's rarely on for long and I'm yet to notice any fade.... Am I just not using it for long enough
I can always spot the muc-off users due to the faded anodising on fork and shock adjusters.
Thays why the thinking Muc-Off user has Marzocchi forks with plastic adjusters 😉
I dry mine with a vac set to blow, drive train and suspension, all the bike, I also dry my triumph this way and get rid of all standing water.
I must be washing it off well and quickly then. 😂
Good knowledge though
Blimey….I use Muc off too so I guess that’s a no no. Will try and wash my bike less now.
This is about water in the pivots, OP didn't mention pressure washing or harsh cleaners, a simple sponge down is gonna leave water around the pivots, rain water too. Personally I use a soft paint brush with a plastic ferrule to avoid scratching anything, I also use it around fork seals to get dust off in summer, would never spray GT85 there, maybe a little silicone spray on the bristles of the brush. I've used silicone spray on seals for years and never had issues arise from it.
I use a mini compressor to dry mine off after washing, I have noticed since doing it that bearings last a lot longer than they used to. I used to put it in the kitchen overnight at the old house as the warmer, drier air helped but the new house has a smaller kitchen and there isn't an out of the way corner to put a bike.
Don't know if I'm really adding anything to the above comments, but I'd usually spray the bike with a garden hose (low-ish pressure) and use a bucket of warm soapy water and a brush.
Then I pop the dehumidifer in with it to dry it off.
wait? talk to me about muc off?
tbh, i buy whatever the cheapest bike specific concentrate is at the time, lifeline, muc off? talk to me
.I use Muc off too so I guess that’s a no no
You have to heavily dose the thing and leave it to soak in with Muc-Off to see any sort of corrosion, and TBH, if you're the sort of person that thinks that any silicone spray from any manufacturer is a substitute to a regular strip-down and service, then you deserve whatever you get. If on the other hand your spray a bit on the stanchions, cycle the forks to pull what muck is floating about the wiper seals away from them, and wipe of any residue with a clean micro fibre including any excess Muc-Off . Your fork will be fine.
Don’t know if I’m really adding anything to the above comments, but I’d usually spray the bike with a garden hose (low-ish pressure) and use a bucket of warm soapy water and a brush.
Then I pop the dehumidifer in with it to dry it off.
That's what I do. Dehumidifier for 2 hours. I avoid muck-off etc... can ruin paint not just anodising.
Whenever I see cracked and perished seals on forks and shocks I always ask customers if they use suspension lubes, and its always a resounding yes!
Is that not just because they're likely to be the kind of rider who goes for far too long between services, rather than as a direct result of the suspension "lube"? (assuming you mean silicone spray with no other inappropriate for rubber shit in it)
if water can get, you’re driving grit into the bearings.
If seals so were so poor that low pressure water could force grit past them, they wouldn't last literally 5 minutes on a muddy trail.
You could maybe force water past seals with a jet washer directed straight at them, but that would be quite difficult due to the way they are made.
I think the way that bearings fail is as you bounce around on the bike the balls flex slightly, it roughens up the surfaces which causes more wear and as the balls and races get damaged the seals end up having to flex more to account for the movement, and eventually on one hit a trace of moisture gets in which, if the bike is dirty brings a tiny bit of material in with it. Once this is in the balls and races start to wear which then makes more play and more water gets in then within a ride they are knackered.
Nooks and crannies on bikes collect crud and grime, and if there's a bearing there the accumulated crud is ready to work its way in. So I hose the pivot areas with a garden hose, sometimes a cleaner, to wash the crud out. I think that silicone spray or something similar would help bead water and stop it collecting in wet crud, but it doesn't seem to last long so I don't bother. My bearings last many years (except on that Gary Fisher because they were comically undersized). I even jetwashed my bike regularly for many years and it had no effect on the bearing longevity - because I didn't stuff the jet right up against the pivots, I held it about 30cm from the areas concerned. If you're using a small jetwasher then you can stick your fingers in the stream 30cm from the nozzle and it's pretty low pressure but high flow which is what you want. Don't spend tons of money on some industrial grade weapon of mass destruction, they do more harm than good.
Its nice that some people are so caring about their bikes, but why so precious about washing but not so precious about riding or transporting? ie whilst riding mud must get forced towards pivots at high speed and then anyone who uses a bike rack or uplift. How do bikes cope with being used but not being washed ?
Paint brush (1 inch) as mentioned above is the best thing for getting into suspension nooks and crannies. Bit of muc off / fairy and a low pressure hose off.
WD40 ? Yikes Wouldn't the solvent damage the seals?
How do bikes cope with being used but not being washed ?
Mine seem to cope fine. I don't ride through bogs, put them on a roof rack, or own a jet washer. I mostly don't clean them, if they get muddy I let them dry and then brush it off.
I think the way that bearings fail is as you bounce around on the bike the balls flex slightly, it roughens up the surfaces which causes more wear and as the balls and races get damaged the seals end up having to flex more to account for the movement, and eventually on one hit a trace of moisture gets in which, if the bike is dirty brings a tiny bit of material in with it. Once this is in the balls and races start to wear which then makes more play and more water gets in then within a ride they are knackered.
Lots of mechanisms at play in bearing failure, the rolling elements flexing is quite a long way down the list...
Nothing, bearings are sealed.
"Sealed".
If they were actually *sealed* they wouldn't rotate very freely...
Lots of mechanisms at play in bearing failure
Interested...?
Jesus Christ it's a bicycle not a baby lamb
Four opinions:
Too many people speak from an unfounded position of authority on the internet.
A penetrating fluid or light lubricant will get through seals and break down grease in sealed bearings.
Hot soapy water and proprietary cleaners wont help bearing life if liberally applied.
Either brush dirt off or don't give a hoot about all this and cyclically replace bearings and bushings as required, following making your bike sparkly.
I recommend a degree in mechanical engineering..........
replace bearings and bushings as required
This.
They're disposable items. I wash all our bikes fully, I also strip and sort any issues, it's just bike ownership
After a proper wet gritty ride i brush out the pivots with a dry soft bristle toothbrush then brush some grease in onto any exposed bolts / bearing exterior with little paint brush. Then wipe any excess off with a tissue to stop it attracting too much dirt next time out.
Been doing this a couple of years a coincidentally when it comes to bearing change time nothing has been seized in place. 🙂
I just use some muc off gt85 equivalent or whatever is lurking to hand after hosing, mainly to make it shiny. Riding does way more damage and the bearings are sealed. Once they start to play I'll fix them as they dont cost much anyway (it's rare they need changing). knackering your drive train because you dont clean the grit off probably costs more.
“Sealed”.
If they were actually *sealed* they wouldn’t rotate very freely…
You've hit the nail on the head. They're sealed, but not hermetically as they need to move. Varying grades of seal exist - the balance is between cost, friction, wear rate and level of sealing. The ones used on bikes are a relatively simple, and gentle seal to keep friction relatively low, hence they're resistant to general water and muck, but not against pressurized water - jet wash etc.
Lots of mechanisms at play in bearing failure
There are indeed. The dominant ones for bike bearings (which are pretty lightly loaded vs the capacity that these bearing types are capable of) are corrosion and debris intrusion. If the internals are kept clean then on a bike they should last for tens of thousands of miles if not more. Once water and grit get inside then they could last for only tens of miles or even corrode just over time.
The other things that can kill bearings in bikes usage is side loading - incorrectly fitted spacers etc but that's less common and you'll know if this is the case.
I recommend a degree in mechanical engineering……….
Indeed that helps, although it's the experience of designing and maintaining things, general approach to understanding how mechanical how things work and the propensity to actually look things up rather than base off opinion that matters and that doesn't need a degree.
I think the way that bearings fail is as you bounce around on the bike the balls flex slightly, it roughens up the surfaces which causes more wear and as the balls and races get damaged the seals end up having to flex more to account for the movement, and eventually on one hit a trace of moisture gets in which, if the bike is dirty brings a tiny bit of material in with it. Once this is in the balls and races start to wear which then makes more play and more water gets in then within a ride they are knackered.
Sorry to be blunt, but no. Ball bearings and the races that they run are are very, very hard and can withstand loadings massively in excess of anything a bike rider could impose on them through riding loads. Just go to the skf website or similar and look up your bike bearing and then look up the the maximum loading and maximum speeds.
Also the seals, being rubber (soft) can accommodate a relatively large amount of movement whilst still sealing. The balls and races, being hardened steel (hard) won't deflect much. The clearances in the bearing are also very small. So - no matter how much load you put on the bearing the seal won't fail to seal. The bearins will shatter and/or embed themselves into the race before the seal fails to seal.
There is plenty of literature out there on ball bearing failure modes. I suggest anyone interested spends 15 min on google.
I don't think I can bring myself to not wash my bike. Presume the Transition dude was talking about the frame not the drivetrain? I get irrationally uneasy if I have to store my full suspension bike for a week or two between uses with a drivetrain that is dirty and grainy.
This ^ I hope none of the blow driers and general bike pamperers (?) ever turn up to a cyclocross race - the bikes are jet washed top to bottom repeatedly pretty much every race all season, when the bearings give up the ghost you replace them, they're cheap consumables.
Which is what I do with my FS, wash it with bike type cleaner, bounce it to knock the excess water off, give it a quick towel down, dry the chain with a cloth, re-lube it and then put it away until next time. When the bearings need replacing, they get replaced. Job done.
Yea, as above.
The drivetrain gets washed as required. Hot wax though, so it's pretty rare to give it a full on degrease and clean.
The rest of the bike get's hosed off either with the garden hose or a dirtworker style washer to remove lose mud. Then if I'm feeling tarty, or I'm riding somewhere other than local trails to prevent disease spread, or it's the 'nice' bike and I won't be riding it again for a bit I might wash it with a sponge and generic turtlewax style car shampoo to get the last of the muddy marks off it. And If I'm being really tarty, dry it with the airline and give it a wipe with frame protector, but apart form the drivetrain I'd not direct it straight into at any moving parts.
Somewhere between the more you do to the bike, the quicker they'll wear out. And they're consumables, live with it.
Jesus Christ it’s a bicycle not a baby lamb
Not sure mint, rosemary and goats cheese stuffing and oven for 3 hours is really going to do the bearings much good.
Although the rendered lard would make an interesting bio-degradable hot-wax option.
“I don’t think I can bring myself to not wash my bike.”
I’m the opposite. I can’t bear how much time it takes to do properly or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.
Hardtail is two years old and has never been fully washed. I cleaned just the frame last summer so it looked nice and shiny for a short while. Ebike is over five years old and I’m guessing I cleaned it when I needed the LBS to service it. It’s hard to remember… The mud falls off eventually, or I knock it off if it’s persistent.
I get really good bearing life from all my bikes despite riding them in all weathers and lots of mud, so I don’t think it’s a bad approach to ownership.
I’m the opposite. I can’t bear how much time it takes to do properly or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.
About 15 minutes? Warm soapy water and a garden hose? Maybe a bit of mild degreaser if you're a chain oiler instead of waxer?
And it's not bad to squirt water at bikes.
It's bad to blast them with a directed jet of high pressure water.
So how does that first bit of grit or water get behind the seal?
Its one of lifes great mysteries, like where does that sock go in the washing. Is it something to do with water molecule size vs droplet? There's a tiny contact patch of a normal 'V' lip seal against a rotating race (other seal designs are available) with forces like capillary action at play I'd imagine it's not that hard for moisture to get behind a seal... or even more so a penetrating lube with surfacing properties designed to do exactly that. The leading edge of a minimal contact seal is flexible enough for small particulates to pass through under pressure. But usually the grittyness felt in a bearing is the result of a tiny amount of moisture entering the system and initiating the corrosive process on the race or balls, once its got going not much will stop it. Which is why its always best to use really good quality bearings, as the materials and surface treatments used will better withstand the inevitable moisture ingress.
or how bad for bikes it is squirting water (or worse, cleaning chemicals!) at them.
Its not. I mean I'm not as fastidious as some on here, but my bikes get a hoses at them after nearly every ride this time of year, and wiped clean(ish). I also get a pretty good lifetime from my bearings.
Anecdotally, I rarely wash my bikes and I also rarely have to replace bearings (BB's, headsets, linkages, hubs).
I always hear about how bad Sram BB's are but my GXP one is still going strong after over 5 years of use. I probably wash my bike once a year at best
i love the comments from the people that dont wash their bikes. Sometimes you cant turn a wheel theres that much mud on mine. Do you ride yours in the dry/ on a road or something?
Let it dry, brush the mud off, lube the chain, ride.