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hi ,i'm in the market for a steel hardtail for trail riding. my current frame is a marin rocky ridge aluminium ht.
the geometry is spot on but the aluminium means its a bit stiff.
ive just built a blue pig for someone(with 140mm forks)which feels amazingly smooth to ride and the vibration aborbtion is unreal compared the the rocky ridge but the high 331mm bb height as made me think twice about getting one for myself.the rock ridge is 313( same tyres and forks).also it seems slightly long.
i'm looking for a frame that i can rail berms and corner at speed and gain speed from pumping every bump in sight just like the rocky ridge but with the comfort and extra traction of the steel.
the more pricey cotics look good, but should i go bfe or soul and what are the bb height on those with 140mm forks and 2.35" tyres.
also looked at ns surge but the extra weight is putting me off.
the bike won't be used for big jumps/drops or full on DH.
I've got a blue pig and do everything you describe it's great. Get some thinner pedals if bb height really bothers you.
my 456 does all that but faster!!
Would probably be racing DH on it this year if there was still a catagory in Pearce
On-One 456
Ragley Blue Pig
Cotic BFE
Pipedream Sirius
All these steel frames take 140mm forks, there was a bike test out of these bikes in recent mag a few months back and the Pipedream was the winner.
www.pipedreamcycles.com
Cotic BFe..
@wors
i'm saying the bb is to heigh on the blue pig.
i would like it 15mm lower.
456 is another option but summer session or standard. and i think bb is the same blue pig.
ive raced downhill on the rocky ridge a couple of times.
@wors
i'm saying the bb is to heigh on the blue pig.
i would like it 15mm lower.
then I would catch my bashguard on the top step of mmmbop.
on-one 456 BB is higher for the same length fork.
For the riding you describe the Soul sounds perfect if you can stretch to it, the BFe would also work but it's a bit stiffer on the rear (larger diameter seat tube and stays) as its designed to take more abuse.
Should have my new Soul next week, built a 2nd hand mk1 up and liked it so much i've treated myself to a new one 🙂
That pipedream Sirius looks lovely.
thats the 456 ruled out then. the jury is still out on the blue pig as i have only taken it on a local xc ride.might have to borrow it to see how it fares on some technical riding.maybe a softer spring in my fox van rl forks to give me more sag may help.
The run tubeless and run low pressures.
i'm afraid i know what tyre pressure works for me on different bikes and changing that to affect bb height would not be somthing i would do, nor would i use smaller tyres.
can anyone tell me what the cotics bb height is in relation to the to the blue pig.
Sanderson Blitz might be another contender. If you trawl my posts you'll find some pics I posted for a chap. He'd tried a Ti 456 & a Soul (I think), but really rated the Blitz.
Orange P7?
dialled alpine or prince albert.
bb slightly lower but with all long travel hardtails you are going to have a slightly higher bb if they can be used with 140-160 forks.
DMR Trailstar LT
dont see why the cant go lower like my rocky ridge with 140mm forks. i NEVER hit pedals or bash guard and it is obviosly better for cornering. just look at DH bikes.they have low bbs nowdays and they have 200mm travel front and rear!
can anyone tell me what the cotics bb height
Just checked my BFe and with 150mm forks fitted I measured the BB height at 32cm. The Cotic site says 12.25", which is 31.1cm, with a sagged 130mm fork.
@epicsteve
just to check, did you measure to the centre of the bb.
also what tyres do you have on
trailstar too steep head angle for me.
You've really noticed the extra comfort and traction from a cheap steel frame?
I have a rocky ridge they are smashing why not bigger tyres run slightly softer ie rubber queen 30 psi ? saves money and faff......... more time to ride !
without a doubt.there is a very obvious differance. i did a loop with the aluminium frame then the same loop on the blue pig straight after.
everyone i know is buy steel over aly ht frames now. apart from the one who can afford ti that is.
i'm afraid i stick to my beloved, corner carving high rollers.i have a garage full of tyres but they are best.
the rocky ridge is a sweet bike, but due to breaking my left arm, my left wrist, shattering my right elbow and detaching the ligerments to the elbow last year ,i could use the extra dampening of the steel this year 😀
@epicsteve
just to check, did you measure to the centre of the bb.
No - unsagged to the centre of the BB it's a smidge over 34cm. Can't really measure it sagged though. My Soul has 140mm Pikes on and unsagged and at max length the BB was also about 34cm, and with them dialed down it was just under 33cm. Not sure if any of that is of any use at all!
also what tyres do you have on
It's got a Purgatory 2.2" on the front and a Storm 2.0" on the back. The Soul has 2.3" Eskars.
@epicsteve
cheers ,sounds like they may be a smidge higher the blue pig then.
Evil Sovereign
i know im fussy but i dont like the look of frames with raised and reinforced seat tubes.plus its expensive. it could have 3 blue pigs 😀
BFe, I've got one with 140mm forks, its stable and planted but livley with the jumps and the turning. Love it.
Prince Albert for the win. Mine's genuinely amazing. And it only cost a few notes shy of £300 all in, using a Saracen Zen as a donor bike...
Currently riding a BFe. Used to ride a Trailstar LT. Both are really good frames, the BFe is a bit longer on the tt/wheelbase and has a slightly slacker HA, so it feels more stable at speed. The Trailstar wasn't exactly bad though, I just fancied a change.
Evil sovereign or chromag samurai
I have two steel bikes - a Prince Albert and an On One Inbred - neither have this amazing dampening effect that you talk of.
Also, the number of long travel hardtails with low BB height is seriously limited.
fwiw, the Trailstar has the lowest bb of all the frames I looked at, 11.8". Probably why it feels quite stable even though it has short chainstays and a relatively steep HA of 71 degrees (don't know if this is sagged or unsagged though).
Also the BFe feels a lot flexier/softer on the back end, and doesn't feel as quick to accelerate.
I got a sovereign with Van36's on the front,
[IMG] 
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and a gay handbag.....
I think Transition Trans Am's are a bit lower than the Blue Pig.
But they're steeper head angle and quite a bit heavier too.
And more expensive.
I've got a 456 Carbon and a TransAM. 456 with gears and TransAM is SS and will be Alfine for next winter. I got the TransAM because I didn't want two bikes the same. Not ridden the TransAM yet, but it looks fantastic, better than a Sovereign and the others mentioned above, which is an important factor.
I don't know about more recent Marin hardtails, but in my experience the aluminium ones are/were some of the flexiest bikes I've ridden and not in a good way. I'd be surprised if a blue pig was more 'comfy' though it's almost definitely better handling.
Get thicker pedals. Maybe high-heeled shoes.
Just measured up my Bfe, centre BB from ground 34 cm with 150mm forks and 2.3 sized tyres (Maxxis HR 2.35 front, 2.25 Adv rear), so with 20% sagged forks would have about a 15mm reduction in BB height
I'm with bullheart. Definitely consider trying a PA. Mine is ridiculously good! It's easily tough enough for any xc riding in the uk. The steering is lively enough to keep things interesting on normal trails, but feels very solid when flying down big peak district descents. Oh and it's one of the easiest bikes to bunny-hop that I've ever ridden.
...and best of all they're cheap!
My DMR trailstar 2 is running marzocchi 55's and has head angle of 66 degrees unsaged, ride it for everything and it does it all well. Recommend a dialled prince Albert too
i'd just like to say to the people who say the doubt that the blue pig is more comfortable in terms of vibration dampening compared to a marin rocky ridge or even a cove stiffee or chameleon or mmmbop, the pig is obviously more comfortable due to the properties of the material, the thickness of the chain and seat stays and the diameter of the seat post and the fact that i have rode both and compared.
i would be interested to hear why someone would disagree. why else would any frame be made with steel otherwise being as steel is heaveir??