Last year I was looking at a new car with a RRP of £22k and the bloke at Arnold Clark let it slip that trade price was around £9k which accounted for the fact they could sell a 6-month old model for £10.5k and still make a profit.
He was pulling your leg. The margin is a fraction of that up front, and gross. The dealers will get back end bonuses based on CS results that will add a few % on, and that's all. On a 6 month old car they registered as a demo they will get writedown support from the manufacturer, but not to the tune of half the retail value of the car.
I used to work for one of the largest manufacturers in the world. There is a few reasons why the motor trade is on its knees now. One main one being pathetic margins.
mattjg - Member
Ah OK, that makes sense. I assumed they subsequently ordered it from CRC too but that could well be wrong.
My LBS do - they get stuff at trade from CRC (presume it's through hotlines or something)
Holysmokes !
I have most of my entire working life, in the process sacrificing two careers, & spent a lot of time in many different shops learning the trade, all to get the experience I wanted to be able to own & run my shop. Luckily that finally happened this April.
Reading this huge thread with interest and amazement, its obvious a lot of people are passionate about what they think is right/wrong, about where & where you do & don't spend your money..
Like any business, we make money, not much, but enough to make it happen. Beats the crap out of sitting at a desk. But the main reason I do it, is because I love it so much. I love helping people out, NOT ripping them off, repaying loyalty, & supporting local customers & local riders that race bikes.
Running a bikeshop is not so much about making money, but more about giving something back to the local cycling community, & being there for anyone who needs us.
I go home each night, & read bike comics, (gota keep up!) while my wife sits in the dinning room doing the books. We dont talk about profit much, hopefully sometime in the future we will, but thats a few years away. In the meantime, ill just keep my hands oily 🙂
Best wishes for a successful shop, for a long time, Xeo. Cycling gets bigger every day.
Ultimately we're all on the same side here, we just want to have fun on our bikes.
Yey!
We definitely are. Cheers mate 🙂
I wonder how many people drop out of the sport/hobby due to the constant price increases
I'd expect precisely none.
Is there not a 19% tax on bike parts in Germany which gets removed for export
anything bought within the EU has the EU 20% VAT added to it so you can eliminate tax from the equation.
And I thought the margins in the car trade were so low they made all their money on the finance agreement and target bonuses, hence the entire auto industry being on its knees in a recession?
Why aren't they getting angry on the blower to the distrbutor saying "how come CRC can sell this for 45 quid when our price to the customer is 70? That's costing us footfall and margin every day!" ?
The other thing CRC is able to do because of the size of their operation is to go to Taiwan, China, etc. and buy OEM components direct off of bicycle manufacturers. So if you're say pacific cycles and you've got, oh i dunno, 3,000 extra xt cranksets from last year. You'll sell them on to CRC direct at cost or a tiny mark up which is significantly down on most shops trade price let alone retail. Then taking into account the scale of their operation, business model and fixed overhead spread they can sell them on at a small mark up which is still a good profit over all though in the process they go really quickly as they're massively reduced compared to RRP.
As to Rose's prices well firstly Rose are a manufacturer too so they probably deal with Shimano direct instead of adding in distributor margins. Secondly they're also probably the biggest high end bicyle retailer in Germany a country of 82 million people so they'll have huge buying power. All of these add to reduce their price. Plus the Vat thing as pointed out further up the thread.
As some posts above.
depends on the brand.. distributed/imported vs brand direct
depends on the shops purchase volume
depends on the spec level on the bike, but a mark up on a full bike might be in the region of 40% for a well spec'd mtb
e.g. shops buys from distributor for $3160, with a suggested retail of $4650
Factor into that shipping costs, assembly etc etc and whatever discount the shop is offering to attract buyers through its doors.
Parts however are 100% markup. From shops cost to rrp
A $100 set of bars costs the shop $50.
This pretty much holds true for absolutely every component from every parts distributor in Canada.
Why did companies such as Eisenegger (remember them?) manage to have 80% sales all the time? Because, as long as their clothes were marked at the RRP for a period of time (the exact amount I forget, but not long) they could then legally slash it, thus selling 'expensive' kit at a massive discount.
Erm, Halfords/Bikehut have some "crazy" discounts on their low end bikes that remind me very much of the "officers' club" way of trading. Ditto bikes and bike stuff at JJB and Sports World.
He was pulling your leg. The margin is a fraction of that up front, and gross. The dealers will get back end bonuses based on CS results that will add a few % on, and that's all. On a 6 month old car they registered as a demo they will get writedown support from the manufacturer, but not to the tune of half the retail value of the car.I used to work for one of the largest manufacturers in the world. There is a few reasons why the motor trade is on its knees now. One main one being pathetic margins.
A good friend has worked for three or four of the biggies in recent years: I know of one of the largest manufacturers in the world whose slightly necky "list" prices in the UK are 30-40% or so more than a main dealer could actually sell for cash (as opposed to making anything back on finance or trade-in) without making a loss. Although that may have changed in the last few months: I think it was about March this year when I had that conversation. I also know however that the same margin is not nearly as "healthy" for the dealer across the street selling a rival or "superior" brand.
It would seem that the same is being reported about bicycles on this thread. Hey ho.
When I use to play golf all the club run pro shops were members of a buying conglomerate, thus giving them purchasing power on a par with the larger golf chains.
Does this model not exist within the bike industry, and if not why not?
Bearback. 100% markup! You're having giraffe.
One thing I will point out. Do bikeshop owners shop around themselves when they need things for their business or self or do they shop at the closet business for all their goods?
No. I thank ya 😉
Bearback is talking about Canada though.
The Internet really is full of crap!
Thanks for your sagely and helpful observation Razzer. 😀
I saw a (Kona) pricelist in my LBS a few years ago and the trade price was about 50% of retail. This was the official Paligap pricelist.
My neighbour is Sales Manager for the local Vauxhall dealer and he maintains the trade price on new cars (Insignia) is (You guessed it) 50% of retail price.
Lots of less than objective folk saying it isn't so but there is a lot of evidence to back it up.
- One thing I will point out. Do bikeshop owners shop around themselves when they need things for their business or self or do they shop at the closet business for all their goods?
No. I thank ya - YES, I thankyou. (hora)
Massive generalist statement. I run a bikeshop, we do our best to provide good service to everybody that comes in.
My uncle runs a local Butchers, which is PACKED every Saturday. I hate online shopping, its not my thing (along with a lot of other people) I bet your bottom doller, most peeps who use their local bikeshop, don't bother with forums, or online shopping, to busy with their families, or work ect. They just like to get on a Sunday & have some fun.
New car industry is even worse than the Bike trade for margins.
About £200 in a £20k car margin. The dealer will get a kick back from the manufacturer for hitting targets though. Typical dealer will make 1-2% gross margin in total on a good year (sales + after sales). OH is a regional manager for car dealers and has worked for several major car manufacturers - it's a piss poor business model, you'd make more selling the dealership and putting the money in a post office savings account.
ScottChegg - MemberI saw a (Kona) pricelist in my LBS a few years ago and the trade price was about 50% of retail. This was the official Paligap pricelist.
Maybe - that's a high margin though, and trade will be ex-VAT, and retial inc-VAT, making it 40%
I bet your bottom doller, most peeps who use their local bikeshop, don't bother with forums, or online shopping, to busy with their families, or work ect. They just like to get on a Sunday & have some fun.
Seriously?
Insulting people who don't shop with you is hardly going to bring them round is it?
If trade is £50 and RRP is £100 margin is about 40%
VAT is £17.7
Margin is £33.33
Expressed as a percentage 33.33/83.33 - 40%
If you take 10% off RRP, sale price now becomes £90
VAT = £15
Margin only £23.33
Expressed as a percentage 23.33/75 = 31%
TRADE prices are always expressed EXCLUDING VAT, wheras Retail prices include VAT. Just trying ti make sure everyone is working to the same formula.
Note from above just how much is taken in VAT, it's not the LBS ripping you off, but maybe the government is...
- Insulting people who don't shop with you is hardly going to bring them round is it?
Absolutely no way did I come on here to insult anyone! yikes. Sorry if I did so 🙂
Dangerous place !
And cynic-al. My figures for trade vs. RRP are from working in a relatively large chain, that mostly sold low-end bikes, about 10 years ago. The trade vs. RRP is totally accurate for that situation, profit varied, on bikes (as opposed to accesories) it was indeed at the lower end of what I suggested, and I can well imagine it is lower on high-end stuff in the present day.
I also understand why so many involved with bike shops are getting a bit defensive. But all that was actually asked was what is "trade" vs. "retail". My experience was 40-50% 'markup', it seems a lot of people are quoting in that range. If it really is much lower as many are implying, say below 30%? Then all currently in the industry have my sympathies. 10% to get discounts, overheads and profits out of must be impossible.
Small shops, its lower than 40%. UK average would be around 30%. I know this to be fact, having run a Southern UK Account base for a major distributor for two years, and currently own a shop.
Any dealer that is knocking on 40-50% are making big commitments to that brand, a long history & a solid sales base. Just like the distributors we buy from, they also have to forecast that following years sales. How the bikes are sold (discount ect) is down to each shop.
PW - fair enough - I am talking about IBD with decent bikes, which I assumed was where the OP was coming from.
Absolutely no way did I come on here to insult anyone! yikes. Sorry if I did soDangerous place !
Sorry xeo, having read it again I'm sure it was intended perfectly innocently, it just seemed like it was an implication that those who shopped online must have no work/family/life etc and spent all their time on forums.
I bet your bottom doller, most peeps who use their local bikeshop, don't bother with forums, or online shopping, to busy with their families, or work ect. They just like to get on a Sunday & have some fun.
don't bother with forums, or[b] online shopping [/b], to busy with their families, or work ect
yeah, 'cos shopping online at CRC takes more time out of my busy schedule than schlepping to my LBS, finding somewhere to park, paying for the privilege, explaining what I want, being told they can order it in, going away, 3 days later schlepping to my LBS... 🙄
I know people who don't even know which chainring to be in and have their saddle at both-feet-flat-when-sat-cycling proficiency height that shop at wiggle and CRC as well as the LBS. Relying on your customer base being ignorant of competition seems like a fragile business plan.
Hotlines own CRC so that's why CRC can sell stuff so cheaply, and from a personal perspective (i work in a bike shop) it is sometimes cheaper for us to buy stuff from CRC than get it direct from the various trade distributors (hotlines/fisher/etc...etc).
Utterly crazy and as a small bike shop with one member of staff who's worked his bollox off and sunk everything into his shop for the past two years it was just about breaking point for him till i started work a few weeks ago to ease the workload and share the stress levels, we earn absolutely fec-all (i earn so little i get tax credits etc) but we both love the job along with working on bikes and sorting out problems for customers who are grateful for our knowledge and experience, we constantly wobble from one bill to the next as accounts need to be paid on time and it is extremely difficult/stressful making ends meet, as for stock it would be so nice to have a shop stocked with nice shiny kit but we are not in a financial position to afford the massive outlay to buy it, not now...perhaps not ever unless we win the lottery but i don't care. As long as we can ensure the customer leaves with a happy smile and a fully working bike i'll continue to work in the trade, we get cakes,coffee, beer etc brought into us on a daily basis by our loyal customers and it's this reason we work in the shop, to see a customers face drop in amazement when you hand back a bike that 2days previously was unrecognisable and unrideable due to being hidden under a mountain of filth and oily grime is worth all the stress and long unpaid hours, and then for the customer to come in the following weekend to profusely thank you as even when the bike was brand new it never worked as well makes me very happy indeed, certainly better than how i felt in my previous thankless job.
I've personally never used an LBS in over 25yrs of riding mtb's, however there are many people out there who have no mechanical sympathy or knowledge about components or how their bikes work and function in the slightest, we are here for those folk who just want to get out and ride, and if something breaks or fails then they know and trust our advice/repair skills and accept our prices may be higher than what's available online but they understand will never rip them off and we will always try and help them out whatever the problem.
(written on my iphone as i sit with an antibiotic iv in my arm so excuse any spelling mistakes/grammar fec-ups)
Well said Somafunk.
CRC own Hotlines though. Well, in partnership with someone else.
As for 'fragile busioness plan .. it works, we are about to move into a shop 8times the size, & for the recored, Im to long in the tooth to be ignorant of anyone, i like to think. Read what I have written above & take it the way you choose to.
Got my tin hat, waiting for the grenades !
having previously worked in "the trade" for years I'm fully aware of how much a LBS makes on a product, I really don't think they make enough.
I now use my lbs for everything I can, I probably could save a bit of money on line but don't really care. I like the guys in the shop and like the service.
I'm really not bothered how much they make on an item as long as i'm happy with it. They are a business after all.
xeo, FWIW I take my hat off to you. You sound very much like my boss, in it for the right reasons, not afraid to speak his mind a little but still madly passionate about cycling.
Anyway... To all those quoting mad figures on markups etc. for the bike trade (and other trades) you'd do well to just keep quiet! There are MANY knowledgable people on this forum, and some of them work in the trade too, and in positions of authority within certain businesses. I won't embarrass them by pointing them out here and now, but I know who they are, and they're the ones who are speaking the most sense on this thread.
Put it this way, even the guys from the importers will agree with you, but often if I want something for my bike, even though I can get it at trade +VAT through work as I work in the industry, I would usually do better to buy it from Rose Bikes, CRC or somewhere else shagging the prices online! Seriously... I want a new set of Conti Rubber Queens for my hardtail right now, the UST versions... They're £54.99 each at RRP, and I can tell you I can buy them cheaper from Germany than I can from the distributor once I've added the VAT!
Whose fault is this? Well it's not your LBS's fault. It is not the reputable distributors fault (though there have been some unscrupulous distributors in the past). It is the educated customer wanting expensive parts for pennies (of which I am one too, I'll hold my hand up and admit it), and the OEM market supplying willingly to the online resellers. But then again, it's a free market, and everything has to evolve, so you could argue quite rightly that when an LBS goes bust it's their own fault for not modifying their approach in order to survive. Unscrupulous suppliers have existed, and indeed do still continue to exist sometimes, or there's the grey route of supply. I had the rep for a certain brand of helmet on the phone yesterday, that is very in demand right now, and he was quoting me the trade prices. So I then asked why on earth can I currently buy them online from a certain price shagger for cheaper than he can sell them to me! Fortunately for him, that's a hangover problem from the previous supplier, and the online price shagger's supply has dried up so they have got what they've got and won't be getting any more, but still...
Anyway... Fortunately, whilst for many of us on here cycling is our hobby and we spend a lot of time researching it and finding the best prices, for many people it isn't quite so all encompassing on their life. These people remember good service, and perceive value differently to some of us wanting to save another £5 off a cassette or chain, and these are the people that keep the LBS in business.
Also... You can't buy experience! You can't buy the years of knowledge of MTBing inside my head, and others in my position with even more experience perhaps, or the technical knowhow that goes behind it. My workshop has an open door policy in that if you're the customer, and you want to learn how to look after your bike better yourself or watch me whilst I work on your bike, as long as you know where the kettle is and you make me a cup of tea, you're more than welcome! The flipside of this is these customers often end up coming back more anyway as they feel they've been welcomed by the shop.
What pains me though is when a customer comes in to buy something, says he can buy it for X on the internet (and I will always try to help someone out here, I will state it might be a bit more expensive from us, but I'll always quote a price if I can) then I ring the supplier, get a quote from them, and our trade cost + the VAT and carriage is the same as what he can buy it for online! 😕 That hurts cos even though I'm prepared to help out, and be flexible, it's no successful business model to sell things for less than you buy them for!
Some people seem to confuse mark-up and margin.
Kenny - good to hear you are in a shop. Drop me a line, would be good to catch up.
Unscrupulous suppliers have existed, and indeed do still continue to exist sometimes, or there's the grey route of supply.
To be fair, its up to the suppliers who they sell to and at what price. If you think a supplier is selling the same product cheaper to other shops then you don't have to buy from them at all.
I do think its wrong when some LBS (not saying it has happened on here) complain about the customers buying elsewhere. You should be arguing for better prices from your suppliers if they're screwing you, and advertising the benefits of buying from your shop over online if it's the overheads that you can't compete with.
mboy - xeo, FWIW I take my hat off to you. You sound very much like my boss, in it for the right reasons, not afraid to speak his mind a little but still madly passionate about cycling. - Thanks. (what's FWIW?)
I don't have any problem at all with people using CRC ect. Its been the roll-call for years in the bike trade. Like I said, I have worked with & met the guys at CRC, & have massive respect for them, & their success.
I have done about 9 Ragley build-ups this year, one example, I sold the frame, did an X-fusion fork, & 10% off some of the bits. He bought the brakes & wheels online, something I didn't s**t myself about (never have really, its his choice anyway) built the bike & he loves it. Last week, he came in & bought a kids bike. Ill service his bike sometime soon as well.
We don't really sell much high-end kit to be honest, but because that's what everybody who is a proper rider uses & buys, its easy to think that's all there is to bikeshops.
We sell tons of lights £8-£100, helmets £30-£60, mudguards, locks, tyres (do a fair few maxxis, Schwable, Conti for MTB'rs on a friday/sat morning) basic clothing, some Endura, then its bike sales in general (£260-£10000000) for adults, & £115 to £240 for kids. & lastly, & most importantly repairs, which I do myself, fast, well, & efficiently.
Unless you know how to properly setup & maintain a bike, buying a bike online sucks ass though. But that's just my opinion, something which I normally keep to myself. Please don't attack me for it ! I understand why people do so 🙂
also happen to be a LBS to some people. How should they feel about that?online price shagger's
We're missing the point of view from two of the big players in this thread; the big manufacturers and the importers/wholesale distributors. Of course, I don't expect that they worry about what is said about them on internet forums, though. But if so, I'd bet they say something like this:
Big Manufacturer - You have no idea how expensive it is to develop new stuff. We spent XX million (whatever currency) over 3 years developing our new 10 speed drivetrain, then X million to retool the factory to produce it. We have people in our tech department answering email in 19 different languages. Advertising costs X million per year in 50 countries. And you should try to figure out what it will cost to manufacture next year; we have plants in 5 countries and get raw materials from 10 countries. So we have to figure research and development, raw materials, production cost, advertising, shipping, taxes and tariffs, and current and future exchange rates in order to set wholesale and retail prices. And we have to keep our prices in step with our competition, even in countries where they have some sort of advantage due to their production somewhere with a more favorable trade agreement or exchange rate than ours is. Sometimes everything that we sell in a certain market is at a loss because consumers won't pay a 50% price increase in one year when the exchange rate has changed dramatically. And sometimes we don't guess right; the Acme shift system lost us X million as it never caught on even though feedback from our testers was overwhelming positive and market research done by an outside firm said that it would be a big seller.
Distributor/Wholesaler - We built a modern warehouse that cost XX million, it will take us 15 years to pay that off. We keep XX million of bikes an parts in stock on a daily basis. We have to order bikes and components by the XX thousand, 90-120 days in advance of delivery. The stuff comes from all over the world, so delivery dates often change without warning. We have to pay the manufacturer 30 days after delivery. And we have no idea what will sell in the end. We got stuck with 50k worth of that Acme shift stuff that we had to sell at a loss. The same with those carbon frames from Brand Q; they had some quality issues with the first batch that were fixed quickly but no one wanted them after that; we had to sell over 1000 frames at a substantial loss. And probably 2/3 of the warranty returns aren't defective; the parts were either improperly installed or broke well outside of their intended usage. Oh, and if you could tell us what percentage of mountain bikes with 650b wheels we should order for delivery in the spring of 2013, we'd like the answer...
The bottom line is that I don't think that there is anyone in the bike industry making outrageous profits. If someone does, it will only be for a short while since free market forces will move others in to compete. The big companies probably do make millions in profit, but I'll bet that most years is a low double digit or even a single digit percentage of their sales. And no doubt some of this profit is invested into R&D to develop new improved products that we'll want in the future.
The market for bikes, bike parts, and everything else is changing due to the internet. In the short term, there will be anomalies due to exchange rates and such, but in the long term countries will have to bring their trade agreements and tax structures more in line with the rest of the world, or businesses will leave.
And the bike market is so fragmented; there are so many brands of bikes competing with each other that has to make it difficult. Only time will tell whether the market changes to a different distribution model, less brand in competition, or whatever.
And the bike market is so fragmented; there are so many brands of bikes competing with each other that has to make it difficult
I think that is/was the difference between the cycle market and the grey import motorbike market, where there were really only 4 manufacturers that totally dominated the market at the time (the Japanese big 4, the euro manufacturers were insignificant players then). There is more diversity so different suppliers and supply chains can co-exist.
Im to long in the tooth to be ignorant of anyone,
xeo, I never said [i]you[/i] were ignorant. You said [i]most peeps who use their local bikeshop, don't bother with forums, or online shopping[/i] and I suggested relying on this ignorance on the part of the customer (to know there is competition) was fragile. The blanket advertising of Wiggle through the TdeF coverage put paid to any lingering ignorance. Possibly at the lower end of the market which you've said you serve there is less usage, but people in my local gym who've just bought (or rejuvenated) bikes inspired by this summer know about Wiggle and Chain Reaction.
Good to hear your shop is succeeding, I just didn't think your comment bore scrutiny, or was the foundation for sustained success (as opposed to providing a quality service which is).
OH is a regional manager for car dealers and has worked for several major car manufacturers - it's a piss poor business model, [b]you'd make more selling the dealership and putting the money in a post office savings account.[/b]
As a Volkswagen UK employee, I often wonder why the investors and business owners actually invest in the retail motor trade because as the poster above mentioned, you could sometimes get a better return by putting your money elsewhere.
Volkswagen want and need profitable retailers because if they are not profitable they won't stay in business and therefore wont be able to sell new cars and that would impact on Volkswagen's ambition to have a 10% market share in the UK.
Volkswagen expect and want the network to make a 2.5% Return on Sales. Unfortunately the network are only averaging about half of that!
The front end margin on new cars varies but is averages around 10% but this quickly disappears as the market is so competitive and therefore RRP discounting is fairly common. They also over allow on part exchanges (paying more than they are really worth) and in truth most retailers make nothing on new vehicles. However as other posters have mentioned, the retailers can earn back end bonuses for achieving certain sales and satisfaction levels.
The back end bonus that the network can earn is currently 14.5%, although in truth most retailer don't earn all of this. They would get a certain % for sales satisfaction, another % for service satisfaction, another % for hitting the new car sales target (this will only apply from 2013), another % for renewals customers etc
However in truth nearly all retailer make ZERO from selling new cars and the only reason they probably stay in business is because their used car operations and after sales departments are profitable. However if they didn't have a new car sales operation the general public would only see them as a "Used Car Dealer".
With regard to the poster whose neighbour claims they are getting Insignia's with a 50% margin, I suspect that is complete BS. After all because the market is competitive their dealers would very quickly end up selling the vehicles at a little over cost. That would effect their used car stock values and the overall market value of Insignia's and very quickly customers would realise that these vehicles deprecate like stones. Why would anybody continue to buy a vehicle that depreciates so quickly? I suspect all the cheap 6 month old Insignia's are probably ex hire cars, as the hire companies get massive discounts with guaranteed buy back prices. These end up on forecourts at massive discounts over new vehicles.
Finally and FWIW, I can buy new cars directly from Volkswagen at a staff discount. I get these vehicles at the landing cost and this is typically between 20-25% off the RRP.
Aw ! FWIW - for.what.its.worth. ! I'm learning !
Interesting viewpoints going on, for the record, a former business partner of mine is in the Motorbike trade, where margins are around 10%.
As for cars, well, & ill never get my head round why someone would buy a brand new one.
Back to the OP would you please post your annual income and annual out goings so random people can decide if you have too much or too little?
No, I thought not.
There is some sense on this thread, eg xeo and shotsaway, and some absolute BS. 50% margin on a new car!!!! I nearly wet myself laughing at the naivety of some people. My next door neighbour told me he was a spy for MI5 so it must be a fact.
I dont get this defensiveness on the part of some LBS owners. You obviously feel your markups are fair and justifiable, but when asked to justify them, rather than see it as an opportunity to put your case you clam up and say its secret. I generally buy online because I often don't need the additional benefits the LBS can offer. When I do need those benefits I will happily pay the premium for them.
First bike I bought from my LBS I didn't ask for a discount, what I asked was that it was fitted with a waterbottle and cage. They said no and that set the tone of our relationship, we are not friends and owe each other no loyalty or favours, I go if I need what they sell.
[quote=sweepy ]I dont get this defensiveness on the part of some LBS owners. You obviously feel your markups are fair and justifiable, but when asked to justify them, rather than see it as an opportunity to put your case you clam up and say its secret.
As this thread has already shown, there is too much misunderstanding about margins and mark-ups. That, in turn, breeds resentment from the less well-informed.
You obviously feel your markups are fair and justifiable, but when asked to justify them, rather than see it as an opportunity to put your case you clam up and say its secret.
I haven't. I've told you several times what they are - well, what the top and bottom ranges are - there's a lot of variation.
And it's not up to me to justify my prices, it's up to you to decide whether you want to spend £x on a bike. Bikes are not a necessity of life*, so what does it matter where every penny of the retail price goes?
*I know - sacrilege 😉
Sorry Ben, looking back that may have come across as a bit snarky. I have no problem with bike shops making a living, but as Druidh says misunderstanding breeds resentment, If retailers are more open about their pricing structure then consumers can decide what suits them best and everyone is happy.
If the problem is the misinformed- inform them
