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I'm currently using Specialized Captain Sport front and back but I'm losing confidence on the loose stuff, especially on cornering. Just feel as though the bike is going to slide from underneath me.
What do you recommend?
Kenda Blue Groove Stick-E
High Roller.
FireXC Pros have been my saviour.
Ditto Fire XC up front and the back will sort its self out. Confidence will return, happy ridding.
Eskar
Ignore the fire xc, not grippy enough when you really push it... You honestly can't go wrong with z high tiller or minion..
I recently swapped to a nobby nic, it has been better (for me) than the blue groove I replaced it with.
Spoilt for choice.
Ignore the fire xc, not grippy enough when you really push it...
Define "really push it". Never let go for me, except maybe hard-pack off-camber high speed corners, but I don't expect any tyre to grip well then and I ride heavy and fast (on the downs at least!).
High Roller
But also get your weight over the front, whatever the tyre
NOT fire xc for cornering, there is really very little in the way of edge grip when you lean it over. I found have always found high rollers an excellent cornering tyre, really confidence inspiring when you rail them round on the massive side knobs
what size are the captains? sounds like you problem might be easily solved by running a 2.3 up front and 2.1 on the back. Definitely agree with the suggestion of Eskar 2.3, really nice and grippy with a good round edge for cornering. Also Bontrager big Earl 2.3, wet compound. Ive got one on the front at the moment and it hangs on even when the back is drifting about speedway style (especially if you run at about 26 psi)
Fire XC doesn't do sandy trails at all and on anything else it has a tendency to let go without warning. I'm running an Ardent up front now and the grip is fantastic for quite a fast-rolling tyre. It really likes to be pushed and hasn't let me down yet.
Front:Specialized The Captain Sport, 26.2.2
Back:Specialized The Captain Sport, 26x2.0
It's mainly lose gravel/stoney paths. Last night, on a climb, I managed to have the bike skidding sideways.
Rubber Queen, with black chilli
Nevegal 2.1 or 2.35 depending how wide you want to go. Stick-E compound.
It's mainly lose gravel/stoney paths
Nothing really grips that, its the marble effect.
are you tubeless? Running the tyre half flat so it spreads out like a pancake seems to work for me
nosedive - not running tubeless and have let some air out which made it slightly better.
Onza porc 2's 8)
NOT fire xc for cornering, there is really very little in the way of edge grip when you lean it over
Agreed. It's a great 'do it all' tyre, but another way of putting it is jack of all traders, master of none. Personally I swapped from Fire XC Pros to Bonty Jones ACX and have never looked back, but they may not be for everyone.
Define "really push it".
pretty self explanitary, I'd have thought.
they won't hold a line when really pushing into flat dry turns but when you get used to this it's no surprise when they do let go and the slide is actually very predictable. (they're pretty awful in the wet but you'd expect that just looking at them)
Never let go for me
says more about your riding than the tyres I'm afraid
leaning enough into a turn that you need to constantly weightshift/push the tyre into the ground to grip, they will let go pretty easily
and I ride heavy and fast (on the downs at least!).
No you don't!.. well, not on Fire XCs anyway. - if you did you'd know just how fragile the sidewalls are and wouldn't reccomend them for hard use at all.
Break the negative thinking circle. You start to think that you don't trust the tyre, then you start looking down, then you start with the little nervy steering movements and tippy-toeing around the corners, plus a little stiffness from your nervousness - hey presto you have no grip.
Force yourself to look as far ahead as possible, assert yourself and ignore the detail on the ground, press down into the ground and use broad sweeping body language - hey presto that tyre does work after all.
Having said that my front tyre recently wore out and I went for Specialized Purgatory, which I am very happy with. Go soft with the pressure - 30psi or under - soft enough to push your fingers into the sidewall. Eskars are similar to Purgatory.
Sorry I'm not being rude, but have you also considered some other factors:
1) Experimenting with getting your handlebar position lower which help get the front tyre pressing harder
2) Trying 5psi lower front tyre pressure which gets more rubber down
3) Experimenting with more fork sag and slower rebound which can help maintain rubber contact
All of these things can also help IMO
everything slides on loose gravel and stones... or you are not going fast enough.
glenp - I like your PMA style of thinking but I know It's going to go if I 'push it' more.
Buzzlightyear - I will try that. Maybe points 2 and 3 before 1. 🙂
It could be an over active fork. It's a new bike so haven't played too much with the setup.
Thanks.
Grip is downwards, Chuck. The more you drive the bike down (incidentally, I don't like consciously pressing the handlebars - drive down on the outside pedal and work both tyres into the grip) the more grip you will find. Your current nervousness can be setting up a negative loop where you get what you expect because of the physical manifestations of your fear. A little stiffness here, unweighting over loose stuff, steering around details - these things directly take grip away.
glenp has a good point there, you see loose gravel, you expect the worse, it happens.. technique will help loads more than a differnt tyre, though there might be better gripping tyres, what you have are not rubbish.
To get the best out of what glenp is saying you need to get the bike cranked over, you dont cranks yourself over just the bike.. do a google for cycle speedway, check out their posture in a turn..
crank it over, weight the outside pedal, and stick your outside knee into the frame.
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Grip is downwards, Chuck.
I've got a mental image of Cilla Black dispensing MTB skills advice now.
Glen - a couple of things...
Tyres do actually have a limit of where they'll stop gripping in most situations so you really need to learn the feel for exactly how/when it's going to break free to get the best out of every tyre. I do trust pretty much all tyres (but only to that point).Break the negative thinking circle. You start to think that you don't trust the tyre, then you start looking down, then you start with the little nervy steering movements and tippy-toeing around the corners, plus a little stiffness from your nervousness - hey presto you have no grip.Force yourself to look as far ahead as possible, assert yourself and ignore the detail on the ground, press down into the ground and use broad sweeping body language - hey presto that tyre does work after all.
Er.. I take it you're either pretty light or don't actually corner as hard as you preach, 'cause any front tyre other than a dual ply DH tyre is gonna fold under hard cornering for me at less than 30psi.Having said that my front tyre recently wore out and I went for Specialized Purgatory, which I am very happy with. Go soft with the pressure - 30psi or under - soft enough to push your fingers into the sidewall. Eskars are similar to Purgatory.
GW op is talking about loose gravel and stones as his problem surface I dont care what tyre you got, you wont find enough grip to fold the tyre on that surface. Maybe something Massey Ferguson use!
NOT fire xc for cornering, there is really very little in the way of edge grip when you lean it over. I found have always found high rollers an excellent cornering tyre, really confidence inspiring when you rail them round on the massive side knobs
WTF? I've just changed TO fireXCs as the highroller has crap grip climbing and cornering when I lean it over. The FireXC tends to "give" slightly to one side then bite solidly, the HR seems to bite well and then give, but long before the fireXC bites fully.
Er.. I take it you're either pretty light or don't actually corner as hard as you preach, 'cause any front tyre other than a dual ply DH tyre is gonna fold under hard cornering for me at less than 30psi.
Totally agree, 35psi minimum for me or the tyre feels like I'm riding a flat and squirms all over the show.
Don't mean to teach to suck eggs btw, was only trying to help.
Not kidding in the slightest about tyre pressure. I vary between 11 and 12 stone. Anything over 30psi will lose you tons of grip, and lower than that will not fold or come off the tyre until you get down to silly-low pressure.
Not kidding about the negative mind either - you might currently be seeking out the the absence of grip, rather than looking for the positive, it seems to me. The consequent negative feedback will fulfill your prediction about lack of grip. Of course there is a limit, but the limit tends to be wherever you believe it to be, which is why some people go faster than others. As one get near the edge of the belief one tends to start getting less fluid, looking at the ground more (God knows why, it isn't going anywhere) and doing small steering corrections which actually break grip, rather than increase it.
Of course it may be that none of this applies to you, in which case I refer you to mine and others' recommendations of Specialized Eskar or Purgatory tyres, which are also good value.
Not kidding in the slightest about tyre pressure. I vary between 11 and 12 stone. Anything over 30psi will lose you tons of grip, and lower than that will not fold or come off the tyre until you get down to silly-low pressure.
Tyre pressure depends on rider weight. It's about how the carcass deforms when loaded, not about an absolute best value of pressure. A light fairy might be able to deal with 25psi (11-12 stone is fairly light for a chap), for my 16-17 stone anything less than 35psi rolls off the rim on a corner and my best grip is around 35-37 psi. You really can't go around making such sweeping statements.
Aye, contact patch is (approx) linear with respect to loading. Therefore an 11st person running tyres at 25psi would have the same tyre/ground contact patch as a 16st person at 36psi. Which kind of makes sense now!
That makes my 30psi front tyre at 13.3 stone pretty sensible too.
Coffeeking - what size? an what bike? i run a 2.35 kevlar on a 140 mm full sus. To get a high roller to work for you you cant mince about, if you corner with the bike 'relativly' level then theres no cornering grip. you have to really lean the bike pretty aggressivly before it comes into its own.
In terms of clibing grip, which way round are you running it? the vertical edges of the center tread give fantastic grip but the sloped edge is crap!
(not trying to imply your mincing about btw just supprised it doesnt work for you!)
coffeekings fatter than me I feel better now 😆
Glenp is totally right.
11.5 stone for me and 30psi - and Minions are best (SO much better than fire xc pros) Minion front on the back as well.
Surprise, surprise.
Some good points made and taken onboard.
...but before I do choose a tyre, I will have to listen to r'Graham for a quick reminder.
glenp & Tinsy - you clearly don't know what you're talking about when it comes to recomending tyre pressures for other riders (so maybe sticking to teaching folk to suck things aint such a bad idea :wink:)!
running higher pressures may sacrifice all out grip but it's of little consequence when you've just been spat on your face from your front sidewall folding over in a turn. The point at which a tyre will fold is obviously dependent on many variables such as rider weight, riding style, speed, riding terrain/conditions, tyre sidewall, tyre volume and even rim width so no pressure is ideal for every rider/tyre/ride, a rough staring point and a bit of trial and error is what's needed.
I never mentioned pressure, nor a choice of tyre. Only in as much as what the OP is using isnt a rubbish tyre.
I merely point out nothing will grip on loose gravel and loose stones enough to roll off the rim.
I know exactly what I am talking about, but it seems maybe you can talk better than you can read.
try to move your weight forward along the toptube whilst cornering to load up the front wheel.