I have a selection of decent softshell jackets for various temps but they're all roadie cut and look a bit silly when paired with baggy shell trousers then riding MTB/gravel. I can't see many options for a more relaxed cut (but still high performing) option though, any recommendations?
Requirements:
Good for 0-8c preferably with just a base layer (of varying warmth dependent on the temp), I don't want an uninsulated shell
Not overly fragile (even better if suitable for wearing with a camelbak although not a must have)
Relaxed cut (but still cycling cut, I hate a big bunch up of material in the front belly area)
One or more rear pockets
Doesn't need to be waterproof but also not a complete nightmare wetting out if I get caught in a shower
Does need to be windproof
Needs to be very breathable (but vent zips likely required for this as my experience with roadie softshells like the Velocio Alpha Zero is I just melt when going uphill and can't dump heat well enough with just a front zip, at least not without having to play with it all climb to control the temp)
Preferably under £150 as it will be a fairly infrequent type of ride I need it for, could stretch to £200ish for something amazing though I guess...
Originally looked at the Albion Zoa Mountain jacket (as it's on sale) as a bit of a left field option and it's more a puffy jacket but reading reviews I'm not sure it would be breathable enough and has no vent zips.
That lead me onto the Endura GV500 Insulated Windproof jacket which seems similar to the Zoa but again without vent zips so think it might also be too warm (I also don't think I found it anywhere in M in the green but might be wrong).
So I think I'm back to more traditional softshells and the Endura MT500 Freezing Point 2 jacket looked ideal but the only place it seems to be in stock in M is Lord Gun but it also says 14 day for delivery which is too long and probably also means I'll just end up with them refunding as it will be out of stock (given it's not in stock on Endura's own site).
I have quite a bit of 7Mesh stuff but not sure either the Cache or Spruce are quite what I'm after and even on sale the Cache is more money than I'd want to spend unless it was perfect.
I haven't stumbled across anything else though, any ideas? I'm sort of between M & L in terms of sizing but likely M in a more relaxed fit.
I have one of these and it's very good, I'm 5'10 and on the slim side and even a size small is a bit on the generous side.
https://www.7mesh.com/products/mens-chilco-anorak
I’d love Pace to reissue their Race Jacket/Smock. By a country mile, the best mtb jacket I’ve ever owned. 20 yrs old and still going strong. I even found a mint one on eBay for £40 a year or so ago
Pace? Pleeeease?
I have one of these and it's very good, I'm 5'10 and on the slim side and even a size small is a bit on the generous side.
Not a bad shout but I already have the Seton and the Chilco seems to use the same insulation so I don't think it would be warm enough for me (I wear the Seton down to about 5c, it's also a bit close fitting although the Chilco looks a bit roomier cut - I'm not convinced by the lack of a full length zip either).
A jacket version of the Chilco + more insulation + vent zips I think is more what I'd be looking for. My experience is if there's enough insulation for sub 5c then there's no fabric/construction out there that breathes well enough for high exertion parts of a ride, hence I think I've convinced myself I need vent zips.
I’ve got a 7mesh Chilco hoody, grabbed a Seton gilet off the classifieds here and off the back of that picked up a Seton jacket in the sales.
I rattle around inside the Chilco - even the small is a bit baggy, but the material is amazingly versatile. Great as a backup layer to go over everything,or chuck on at the top of the hill while having a snack.
The Seton jacket fixes that, although possibly too roadie? What does work really well is layering the Seton jacket and gilet together when it’s below about 5degrees.
the other thing I picked up is a Rab Cinder Borealis jacket, which is very thin, very light, mostly windproof and very breathable, then just wear normal outdoors base layer/fleece etc under it. Been very happy with that so far too. NYE, went but for a ride to watch the fireworks and it was around zero and I was pretty comfortable.
I think that Americans must be "bigger boned " than us
I have the Freezing point 2 jacket too and it's more substantial than the 7 Mesh but I'm not sure it's any warmer
I recently got this which I think matches most of your requirements, and I'm very pleased with it.
https://www.endurasport.com/windchill-jacket-ii-rust-red/12922205.html
I've used it with a long sleeve Merino base layer at -2 and it's been cosy enough.
I'd say the cut is a little more relaxed than a full-on roady jacket, but prob more roady than not (They describe it as "Road, gravel or trail friendly fit").
I'm 5'11" and 75kg-76kg and the M fits pretty well, a little loose around the torso, but not excessively baggy.
I've not tried it in the rain yet. They describe it as being water repellent but I doubt it would cope well in a downpour.
I think it was about 52 with their DFS sale of the week
I'm very happy with my rapha jacket. it's relaxed fit and very waterproof.
https://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/product/mens-trail-gore-tex-infinium-jacket/SHE01XXAMC
That Rapha jacket is half price right now, and EXTRA10 for even more off, highly recommended
.....
I've got that chilco as a gilet/vest. Very warm, only wear it when it's single figures and I'm doing gentle Z2 type rides. I'm a normal sized 178cm and the medium is roomy. Like @JonEdwards I pair it with a thin windproof from Rab. Mines not the Boralis though, it's from their cycling range; a Cinder Downpour. moderately waterproof, very windproof.
The Rapha Trail Jacket is great but: no rear pocket, no insulation, no pit zips. It fills half the brief.
Have struggled to manage temp w a windproof jacket (Montane featherlight jackets and gilet not breathable enough)
Solved now riding with a Van Rysel Jersey coupled with a mesh backed running gilet. It's crazy good value, very easy to manage temp, and i have the montane if it gets proper cold or i add a base layer
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mid-season-long-sleeved-road-cycling-jersey-rc100-black/306991/c382c382m8544785
Yeah the Rapha looks more like a waterproof shell (already have a 7Mesh Guardian Air for that), great price though. Lots of useful info so far though from people, thanks!
I am starting to wonder if I should just try using a lighter windproof I already have + insulating mid layer. I only really wear 3 layers if one is a waterproof shell on wet rides, I always assume I'll just overheat too quickly and it's harder to dump heat with an insulating mid layer but maybe I'm over thinking it...
Otherwise the Chilco is sort of tempting but too expensive to gamble on and find it's not warm enough (for me) for a two layer solution.
I guess insulated gilets might be something to consider for a 2.5 layer get up, I like gilets but have only used non insulated versions on road rides before as a wind shell.
I’d love Pace to reissue their Race Jacket/Smock. By a country mile, the best mtb jacket I’ve ever owned. 20 yrs old and still going strong. I even found a mint one on eBay for £40 a year or so ago
Pace? Pleeeease?
I've still got a Pace Winteractive jacket/smock. Only ever comes out if the temperatures are well below freezing otherwise it'll cook me alive but its a great jacket. Like yours, easily 20 (maybe 25+ actually?) years old and still in use a handful of times per winter.
OP - I've just got an Endura soft shell in the mad sales they had before Christmas. Can't remember off the top of my head which model (no hood) but its really good. Used it 5 or 6 times now on the big bike and the gravel bike and its spot on. Check sizing though - I'm usually a medium and so ordered one but I definitely wouldn't want it any smaller than it is...
I have found that for me anything above mid single figure temperatures and even with just a base layer the Chilco is a bit on the warm side
If you can live without a rear pocket, I rate both my Mountain Equipment Switch Pro Hoody and my Rab Vapor Rise Summit jackets. Both are excellent. Slim cut. Helmet compatible hood. Napoleon pocket. Insulation that is designed for being worn while active. Pockets for your hands too. I was out in my Switch Pro at the weekend. Icy trails, bit of a breeze and spending most of the ride on my test e bike with the motor off. I was just the right temperature the entire ride
The 7 Mesh Chilco is not great. Terrible hood design and you're probably going to want a windproof on top when things get breezy.
The more cycling brand kit I try, the more I appreciate just how much better clothing from the likes of Mountain Equipment, Montane, Rab, Patagonia and Arc'teryx is for biking.
I love my gore infinium stuff.
I bought a Endura Mt500 Thermal 2 this summer. It's been ace this winter. Riding in slush at 0 degrees this weekend and it was fine with a thermal gilet and long sleeve base layer. Not quite your requirement, but I run cold and offer have an extra layer on compared to my mates.
Slightly shower proof
Seemed to have shrugged off a few close encounters with brambles.
No rear pocket, 2 hand warmer pockets at the front.
Windproof
Not sweaty
I paid £40 in the summer
I've got an Endura Windchill jacket more roadie than MTB , I've also got a Gore Wind stopper softshell I've had for ever .
I've got the Endura Windchill II, had it maybe 3 years. Tough outer fabric, with fleecy inner face. Pretty windproof. Two pit zips each side. For me, a thin base layer is enough down to around 7 degrees, something thicker if it's colder. Seems breathable. I've got a medium: OK for me ( 30inch waist 40 inch chest), but I wouldn't want it any smaller. Fairly relaxed fit.
My most worn winter jacket is a boggo Decathlon softshell. Its waterproofing was minimal when new and I've washed it too many times so it's now borderline zero- but doubled up with a packable waterproof that's OK. But for everything else it's pretty brilliant. Windproof, highly breathable, somewhat wicking, tough (and because it's "low feature" that makes it tougher, because even light damage can knacker a tech jacket)
It doesn't have all the things you want but also I'm pretty sure it's discontinued, so this isn't a recommend for that exact jacket, but I'd be looking for something similiar.
I got a Gore KPR hybrid for £40 at Christmas time. I've worn it 4 times now and it's a great bit of kit. The last three rides have been around freezing and I've worn it with a couple of thin layers underneath. Pull the zip down for climbs pull it up for descents and I run quite hot normally. Can't think of anything I'd change. No rear pockets but it does have two hand warmers pockets. I'd say the cut is more MTB than road and it certainly feels quite robust. Alternatively have a look at Ground Effects winter tops. I have a few that I've picked up second hand over the years and they're really good quality, last for ever. To be honest I didn't really need the Gore KPR.
My last two 'cold'ish but not wet' jackets have been the Endura Stealth of old and it's replacement, Endura Singletrack, both softshells.
The Singletrack seems to have been discontinued/changed - not sure how the current model stacks up
I also bought a gore trail kpr - fantastic bit of gear and a great price at the moment. Probably best used in the range 3-8c with a base layer, for me.
Much colder and id probably pair it with a gilet over the top for a bit more windproofness.
I also bought an endurance mt500 freezing point in the pre Xmas sale. That's also great, probably best in the -3 to 3 c range, with a base layer. It's a fair bit warmer than the gore kpr with everything battened down. But the venting system is really good which makes it more adaptable than may appear. Also looks quite cool IMHO.
I've found the windproofness to be very effective, at least when mountain biking, never felt the need to put my gilet on.
On the kpr i think just the chest shoulders and arms are windproof? midriff area and lower back isnt (IIRC) - which personally i find good for breathability on not-freezing rides but can get a touch chilly if its getting really quite nippy out.
Also, easier to bin off a gilet if getting a bit warm, than to remove midlayers.
Great top though, for sure,however you use it
Only one rear pocket and 3 front pockets but this is my go to for autumn winter. Just add extra layer underneath for - temps and works fine up to double figures for MTB or grav
Rivelo storm fleece
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/2300284/
Limited sizes but might be worth a look
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/4480876/
The more cycling brand kit I try, the more I appreciate just how much better clothing from the likes of Mountain Equipment, Montane, Rab, Patagonia and Arc'teryx is for biking.
This. Rob VR is good, ME Arrow Hoody etc, better fabrics, good cut. Hybrid / zoned stuff ime, only as good as the 'weakest link' panels.
Leatt thermaflow 6.0 is worth a look. I bought one back in autumn and it has become my favourite piece of outer-wear. Absolute goldilocks bit of kit. Its warm enough for me to ride in freezing temps with just a t-shirt underneath, but i don't overheat in it in milder conditions (ridden up to about 8 deg C), like i do with the other winter clobber i've owned. No vent zips, but as someone who runs hot its not been a problem. It has a hood that is kept in place by magnets when not in use, which do a decent job of keeping it from flapping about. The cut is fairly relaxed but not loose. No rear pockets unfortunately.
It might have been covered but goretex infinium is not waterproof. It’ll shrug off a shower but anything consistently wet and you’ll be getting wet.
Leatt thermaflow 6.0 is worth a look.
Funnily enough I came across that today but the lack of vent zips put me off, good to know it might be breathable enough without though.
I got one of the endua freezing point primaloft ones in the recent sales for cheap.
Have only used it once as I was too warm wearing it. Wore it recently in that -4 ish temps on a night ride and it was fine for me. I do run hot though
It might have been covered but goretex infinium is not waterproof. It’ll shrug off a shower but anything consistently wet and you’ll be getting wet.
Only if the seams aren't taped, which is generally the case. The actual membrane is pretty much the same as the waterproof Gore-Tex fabrics, so as new anyway, it is functionally waterproof. I'm pretty sure the Rapha one is seam taped, so will be very water resistant. And yes, it is needlessly confusing.
I also have a Gore Lupra jacket which I believe has the Infinium fabric in strategic places. Another really good piece of kit. I mostly wear it on my gravel bike as it's too nice for mountain biking, ie less robust. But the one time I've worn it on a drizzly morning ride it kept me nice and dry without overheating. I hate wearing waterproofs so this is about as waterproof as I'll wear. The reason I mention this is because the most worn ie best cycling kit I have is all cycling specific. Good quality cycling kit fits better in my opinion but it is dependent on your body shape I think. I bought one of those Spada waterproof jackets when they were £35 and imho it's just about worth that. It is lurking in the van for when I need a waterproof for work but I'd never wear it on the bike, it's so boxy I can imagine it'd flap around and annoy me and it's just too sweaty for me to wear on the bike. The other thing now is you have two types of bike clothing, stuff for ebikers and stuff for non ebikers. Ebikers are such a bunch of lightweights they need to be all insulated and waterproofed to the max,.
I'm quite liking my Context hoodie for this time of year. It's a good fit for me and has a half front zip and put zips so you can adjust the ventilation a bit. It's water resistant rather than waterproof so it's ok in a light shower but think it'd soak through in proper rain. I do wish the material was a bit thinner as I do still get quite warm in it when it's freezing out. Overall a good top for winter though and they're not too expensive.
I know op has asked for an insulated jacket , but that is overkill imo
I wear a craft t shirt base layer , Rapha Marino wool long sleeve and then just a hard shell. I find it regulates my temp far better
I've gone with the Rapha Trail Insulated jacket + Explore insulated gilet for now as a bit of a change of direction (mainly as both 50% off and even if they don't work for the situation I made the thread for I can make use of them in other situations).
Have also messaged Endura to see if the Freezing Point 2 is discontinued (and if so if it will be replaced) as I think that's the best option I've seen (I have the Pro SL 3-season roadie equivalent already, although first ride in it should be at the weekend (road/gravel mix) so will see how well the zips actually work for heat management)
That Rapha jacket is half price right now, and EXTRA10 for even more off, highly recommended
Yep I'd recommend it as well. I wore it in all day rain in the Black Mountains in November. Infinium's "water resistant" is better than a lot of brands "waterproof".
Shameless plug!!
Endura windchill in classifieds. Black, large, worn once
Patagonia R2 tech face = thicker chilco.
Patagonia R1 tech face = thinner chilco.
R1 has a bigger cut than R2, counter intuitively. It's breathable, wicks well and shrugs off a shower. Both are durable too.