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A salesman told me that the frame titanium is very very very lighter than the aluminum frame, dnd heavier than carbon. So what's the advantage of the frame titanium cause the its price is very high?
It's a difficult material to work with, not really much lighter, but look stunning & supposed to last forever if you buy a good one.
Looks alone would just about sell one to me-if I could afford one!
Ti (if designed and built correctly) has an almost unlimited fatigue life.
makes your wallet lighter that is for sure
It's a lovely shiny metal. That does it for me 🙂
Good for a mtb frame - no loss of finish with rough use - and you can sort out any scratches etc with a bit of polishing.
You have absolutely no corrosion issues to worry about and there's no paint to scratch.
They do make a horrendous noise when they crack though!
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The advantage is that you will always have a top end bike.
Because when it snaps, you wouldn't dream of going back to a lesser model, you would just bite the bullet and get another fancy one.
A 5 year old Cotic Soul rides much the same as a new Soda.
You have absolutely no corrosion issues to worry about and there's no paint to scratch.
what about the reaction / corrosion between BB and frame etc ?
it makes this frame possible... no pivots to be found, relies on the 'almost unlimited fatigue life' mentioned above to engineer specific flex into the frame to give up to 5" of rear travel...
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Oh, and the finish always looks superb, and the welding/finish on the frames is almost always a thing of beauty!
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any excuse to show off my lovely, any excuse I tell you! 
It usually has a "ti" feel that many love.
It's not all about weight.
As light as aluminium, but as strong as steel and they look nice when polished up.
The bike for life card is overplayed though. Even if it doesn't break, it will become dated or most people will get bored of it after they've had it a considerable amount of time.
Because people will drool.
For me, feel of steel at almost half the weight.
Feel of steel?
After swapping from my switchback to a 456 I've decided on a few things
1, stiffness is good
2, 'most people' who cliam to like the feel of steel have a 456 as they're cheep and abundant
3, the 456 is 'effin stiff (compared to the switchback with identical builds, even the tyres were the same, i just swaped everything over, adjusted the mech and brakes and was away apart from swapping a titec knock seatpost for the thompson one)
Therefore 'most people' are wrong!
Would I buy a Ti frame? Maybe, it would have to be something very special to warrent spending that much cash. Especialy when as Mike said, you'll be bored in 5 years anyway, maybe not even riding bikes anymore, and costing double what the lighter carbon frames do (which may well have a 5 year or even lifetime warrenty itself) it would need to last 10+ years to be even aproaching VFM.
A salesman told me that the frame titanium is very very very lighter than the aluminum frame, dnd heavier than carbon.
The salesman if full of it, that much is clear.
You can get very light frames made of all those materials, Ti does keep its looks thats for sure, but it not infaliable, as shown by the broken one.
I had one and I loved it, but I did think the BB wanged (flex) about a bit.
It was incidentally the exact same weight as the identically designed and sized Ally frame that came after it, and something similar is in carbon would have been pretty close weight wise.
A carefully built Ti frame is a thing of beauty, a cheap Ti frame is just a shit as the next bike. Geometry first, material second.
As light as aluminium, but as strong as steel and they look nice when polished up.
I thought Ti wasn't as light as alloy, or as strong as steel, but had a better strength to weight ratio than either of them.
I could be talking out of my rrrrs, so please feel free to blind me with science!
The advantage is that you will always have a top end bike.
really? i would rather have high quality steel than a chinese/russian/XAD frame. i wouldn't call those "top end"
the bike for life thing is just a myth. they break and fatigue just like other bikes only they cost more to repair.
Ti has a comparable modulous to steel (so is as stiff)
And a comparable density to aluminium (so as light)
So in theory you could build a frame as light as the aluminium version and as compliant/wobbly as the steel version. But things like hydroforming make the analogy redundant as nowadays a steel frame looks different because it used small diameter round tubes compared to the larger aluminium ones.
PP, I cant blind you with science, but I had an 18" Tinbred and now have an 18" Scandal, considering the different materials you couldnt get 2 closer type/style and geometry bikes, they both hit the same scales at 3.5lbs...
i would rather have high quality steel than a chinese/russian/XAD frame. i wouldn't call those "top end"
By high quality steel do you mean 'made form 853 in a shed after being designed on the back of an envelope and costing 6x the price of the mass produced 520/4130 equivalent from tiawan which is all but identical'?
Nothing wrong with stuff from the far east and Russia, global frames were from Russia, airborne then later Van Nicolas were made in China, the next lot of 456's will be Chinese!*
*all IIRC
PP, I cant blind you with science, but I had an 18" Tinbred and now have an 18" Scandal, considering the different materials you couldnt get 2 closer type/style and geometry bikes, they both hit the same scales at 3.5lbs...
Yep. But they would have had different size/wall thiknesses of tubing, so there could have been more VOLUME of alloy, so the smaller volume of Ti would have been denser and therefore heavier? 🙂
I dont know what to say to that!!! 🙂
Yup from an engineering perspective it's the ratio of stiffness to density that's desireable, it's neither stiffer than steel, or lighter than aluminium!
Al 2.7 g/cm3, 2.8 moh - lightest/g but softest
Ti 4.5 g/cm3, 6 moh - not as light/g but hardest
Fe 7.87 g/cm3, 4 moh - heaviest/g and not as hard
A 5 year old Cotic Soul rides much the same as a new Soda.
My experience (not of Soul and Soda but Swift and Pegasus) makes me truly believe otherwise. Both having the exact same geometry, it is quite amazing how much nicer the Ti feels to ride than the steel bike. And it's about a lot more than 'just' the weight difference.
What does [s]Jesus[/s] sorry Cy from Cotic ride? Answer: a Soul
What does Jesus sorry Cy from Cotic ride? Answer: a Soul
I think you'll find he rides all his frames at one time or another, as do I. He has a young family, I don't, so I justify myself having a Ti frame. If I were a bit more financially prudent perhaps I wouldn't....
Ti haz more awesomness
Cos when you turn up at a race, surrounded by generic alu and carbon bikes, the one everyone wants to look at is the Ti one. Technically speaking, it "haz more awesomness"
😀
glenh - Member
Ti haz more awesomness
Probably truest of all the coments so far!
Dirt (i think) had a charge duster Ti and steel painted and built up identicaly, they then let a load of riders test them over a period of months, occasionaly telling them that they were the same, somethignes feeding a red herring (this one is slacker, lighter, smaller tubes etc) and reversing the same red herrings (so one person is told theirs is slacker, but so is the other one).
Supprisingly enough, nealry everyone agreed that the the one they were told was different was in fact different. Don't think they proved it was any better though?
coz it is spaceage / aerospace...
even if it only used for hydraulic pipework...
My Hummers got a bottle opener on the rear stay. Beauty and practicality 😉
what about the reaction / corrosion between BB and frame etc ?
Just had my ultegra HT11 bb removed from my Ti cross frame it looked OK from the outside but it had disintegrated inside the frame, aluminium will always corrode when mated with Ti I had also used the correct grease when fitting the original but salt off the road soon helped the process along. Still the frame is fine and a bb fitted is only £30. 😯
I love my Ti
I dont care if its better/lighter/stiffer/whatevers compared to whatever other material or bike
Its my bike I love riding it and thats all that matters to me
In 18 months I still grin when I get a leg over (oo-er)
My 456Ti is more composed at higher speeds than the steel 456 it replaced, which was comfier at slower speeds.
Not science, just feel.
I had a True Temper OX Platinum Explosif which was great until I won a Global Ti frame on this very website.
While the Explosif was high end steel, in comparison it still managed to feel quite dull and unresponsive, the Global has the zip of alu, the comfort of steel and the light weight of carbon.
Oh, and it looks beautiful......
aluminium will always corrode when mated with Ti
Really? Does this mean I shouldn't be using an Al seatpost in my Ti frame?
Dirt (i think) had a charge duster Ti and steel painted and built up identicaly, they then let a load of riders test them over a period of months, occasionaly telling them that they were the same, somethignes feeding a red herring (this one is slacker, lighter, smaller tubes etc) and reversing the same red herrings (so one person is told theirs is slacker, but so is the other one).Supprisingly enough, nealry everyone agreed that the the one they were told was different was in fact different. Don't think they proved it was any better though?
Surely the test to do would be not to tell them anything and ask them their opinions? However I'd have thought the tube diameters and weight would give it away.
[i]Surely the test to do would be not to tell them anything and ask them their opinions? However I'd have thought the tube diameters and weight would give it away. [/i]
Didn't ST try this recently with a steel and Ti Charge Duster?
[i]I thought Ti wasn't as light as alloy, or as strong as steel, but had a better strength to weight ratio than either of them.[/i]
[pedant]It's not ALLOY. You mean ALU(minium). The word ALLOY means a mix or blend of different metallic elements and all Ti/steel/aluminium frames are ALLOY. "Ti" for example usually refers to an alloy of 3% aluminium, 2.5% vanadium, 94.5% titanium (other variations like 6% Al, 4% V, 90% Ti also exist).[/pedant]
You weep like a baby when your baby breaks...
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My Lucky Strike passed away late last month - cracked top tube
Surely the test to do would be not to tell them anything and ask them their opinions? However I'd have thought the tube diameters and weight would give it away.
True, although based on their test you can at least say that the `placebo' effect is more important than what the bike is actually made of (in that case).
"Ti" for example usually refers to an alloy of 3% aluminium, 2.5% vanadium, 94.5% titanium (other variations like 6% Al, 4% V, 90% Ti also exist)
Mines both 😀
3-2.5 main tubes
6-4.5 or whatever for the bottom bracket and head tubes
I have no idea what it all means and what difference it makes other than its all great ;D
maybe it was ST
I think they put a QR seat collar on one and a bolt up on the other to make it obvious to the journo doing the article, I seem to remember more people commented on the QR bike being more gnar/'core/rad etc.
The appeal of Ti for me has always been the hard finish and resistance to corrosion. My steel commute bike is two years old and year-round use has seen the inside of the frame turn orange. Never ridden a Ti frame further than a quick spin round the bike shop car park, so can't comment on the riding characteristics or supposed feel, but the extra cost is hard to justify to myself.
Having said that, if my main bike was a hardtail, I'd certainly consider looking into Ti. As it is I'm a fan of full suspension so it's kind of irrelevant.
rootes1 - Member
coz it is spaceage / aerospace...[b]even if it only used for hydraulic pipework...[/b]
You might want to research that a bit more...