Whilst I save up my pennies I’m looking at options to replace my Genesis CDA. It was my first drop bar bike and has given me good service but is tatty and will need some TLC soon, so will be put out to pasture (well eBay) soon.
It does a little bit of everything these days, winter road bike (I have a nice SuperSix for the good weather), commuter, turbo and light gravel. Its replacement will need to be equally as versatile.
Things I’m looking for are:
- something reasonably quick on the road that can do some light off road, not a full on gravel bike.
- Not a boat anchor in weight
- Pref 1x (I want simplicity, the CDA is set up 1x)
- Mudguard mounts.
- Hydro disc brakes
Budget around £1500
Options I’ve looked at:
- Orro Terra C - a few spec options, carbon and good discounts
- Cotic Escapade - a bit above budget but does have the X factor
- Specialized Diverge - sensible choice but a bit soulless and no good deals I’ve seen
- Cannodale Topstone - but too gravel? And no good discounts
- One one free ranger - geometry looks weird and snob factor / typical OO horrible graphics
- Ribble / Sonder - not really doing it for me
- Santa Cruz Stigmata - if I could fine a decent one secondhand in budget (just because)
So what’s there that I am missing?
Specialized Diverge - sensible choice but a bit soulless and no good deals I’ve seen
That's definitely a gravel bike - I've got one. It is good though. Topstone is also a gravel bike, though I was warned off them when I was buying as they are at the race weapon end of the spectrum and I wanted something middle of the road.
Having said that, I'd get a gravel bike and just put some 32mm slicks on it if you already have a nice road bike.
I had a Topstone, the 650B Lefty version. It was tremendously capable on rough stuff but too much of a compromise for me. It was replaced by a carbon Diverge for smoother stuff and a carbon Giant Revolt X for trail riding biased stuff.
The Diverge is, I think, my favourite bike (I do also have a road bike, a carbon Synapse)
For someone not wanting a Gravel bike, you do seem to be looking at a lot of Gravel bikes... 😉
I sort of know where you're coming from, it feels (to me at least) like "Endurance road" and "Gravel" bikes have been converging for a while and the thing we're sort of inevitably heading towards is a drop barred bike that is happy on a Sunday cafe run, a sportive or an audax but with just a change of tyres can go kicking up dust on a bridleway or have some drybags lashed to it and take you off camping for a weekend. Which I suppose is "Adventure" or whatever the marketing departments are keen on next.
Ignore the labels and look at the numbers I reckon, obviously it's going to want to clear 40c tyres and take guards, but I guess the other bits to look at are Reach, seat angle, head angle and maybe stack(?) how does it compare to that supersix? Or indeed any other road bike, a degree or so slacker out front? Similar reach, perhaps a degree more upright on the seat tube? That feels like the right sort of direction (IMO) should still feel 'Roadie' enough on tarmac, but not a total mare on dirt...
Just to clarify, when I say I don’t want a ‘gravel bike’ I mean the 650b, 50mm tyres, wide flared bar type of thing. I want something more at the road/gravel crossover end of things that will do a bit of everything but less compromised on the road than the newer breed of (90s XC style) gravel bikes. Given it will also be my winter road bike I don’t want something sluggish.
I do have a spare set of road wheels I can use for faster winter road rides.
For someone not wanting a Gravel bike, you do seem to be looking at a lot of Gravel bikes... 😉
I sort of know where you're coming from, it feels (to me at least) like "Endurance road" and "Gravel" bikes have been converging for a while and the thing we're sort of inevitably heading towards is a drop barred bike that is happy on a Sunday cafe run, a sportive or an audax but with just a change of tyres can go kicking up dust on a bridleway or have some drybags lashed to it and take you off camping for a weekend. Which I suppose is "Adventure" or whatever the marketing departments are keen on next.
Ignore the labels and look at the numbers I reckon, obviously it's going to want to clear 40c tyres and take guards, but I guess the other bits to look at are Reach, seat angle, head angle and maybe stack(?) how does it compare to that supersix? Or indeed any other road bike, a degree or so slacker out front? Similar reach, perhaps a degree more upright on the seat tube? That feels like the right sort of direction (IMO) should still feel 'Roadie' enough on tarmac, but not a total mare on dirt...
Posts slowly filtering through. This is pretty much where I am with my thoughts, I’m looking for any bikes I should be looking at which fit this category. Anything which looks good will have the geo plugged into my spreadsheet as I do want similar numbers to my CDA and SSE (which both have similar reach and I have set up with pretty much identical saddle and bar height).
The On One Free Ranger is my pick of that bunch, but don’t be put off by their branding, if you look around the same frameset is available from a lot of different suppliers. Mostly labelled Carbonda 696 (but actually Flybike FM696)when bought direct from China, it’s a very sprightly ride.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gravelcycling/comments/n5k8ti/list_of_bikes_using_the_carbonda_696/
I was about to buy the On One when CRC fire sale happened and I bought the Ridley version instead.
Pic of my Ridley Free Ranger
Y u no Sonder?
I got an alloy topstone a few months ago with a fairly big discount and I've been pretty impressed with it so far . I got it to do a bit of road and a bit of gravel and so far it's done mostly road but when I did take it off road it handles it really well . I'd like to get another set of wheels for it so I could have one for road and one for gravel .I don't mind road riding but it's more of a way to get exercise for me so I'm fit enough to enjoy my mtbing so a gravel bike works for me as it's a bit more versatile.
I used to have a Ribble CGR and used it for all the things you listed plus road riding and it was really nice looking thing in the flesh I thought , and it rode well although I learnt I'd never buy another gravel bike without hydraulic brakes . Unfortunately the chain stay snapped but I believe they've updated the design.
Having said all that I'd love a Cotic if the budget could stretch .
Y u no Sonder?
The Camino is at the more 'gravel focused' end of the spectrum than what I am after.
Spa Cycles Elan looks fairly close to those requirements and looks decent v.f.m. if you want a steel frame.
Very happy with my Escapade - it's a bit spendy, but they do have 0% credit available to make it more manageable.
I've 2 sets of wheels, one set up with gravel tyres and the others with road tyres, so swapping from one to the other is a 2min job.
I love it off-road (Suffolk bridleways and forest trails), and it does OK on-road too but feels a bit more sluggish than the Cannondale CAAD8 it replaced.
If you can get your hands on a Trek Crockett that's just the ticket in my opinion. I have used mine for normal roadie club rides and even my local 10 mile TT series with 30mm tyres on (span out the 42 ring a couple times, placed poorly, but that's the engine's fault) but have also used it with 42/38mm tires for gravel bashing in the Pentlands and did the dirty reiver on it, as well as a winter of CX racing a few years ago.
I actually also descended Carn a' Chlamain on it via the 4x4 track in 2019 or so. I managed to ride most of it as well...just very slowly. Wouldn't recommend that...!
It feels like a road bike on road, and a gravel bike on gravel. pretty light, mine has hydro discs and 1x, and has mudguard mounts too.
I use my hardtail more often than not these days even for gravel, and have a nice road bike with 32mm clearance, so the Crockett stays in the shed these days ready to sell...but I can't bring myself to just yet. I really love it!
My Sonder Camino is a very comfortable road bike. I happily rode it over the Gospel Pass and the pitted lanes around the Black Mountains yesterday. You could probably get 35s in it, but I'm running it with 28s atm as a road bike. Mine is 2x, which is much more useful for the road I think. I use a Kona Sutra Ltd as a gravel bike, 1x, and you could happily put thinner road tyres on if that's your focus. Again, very comfortable.
Focus Paralane?
Posts slowly filtering through. This is pretty much where I am with my thoughts, I’m looking for any bikes I should be looking at which fit this category. Anything which looks good will have the geo plugged into my spreadsheet as I do want similar numbers to my CDA and SSE (which both have similar reach and I have set up with pretty much identical saddle and bar height).
I had a similar thing, my spreadsheet points of reference were a Merida Scultura, a PX London Road and a Norco Threshold which all share some surprisingly similar angles the notable outlier being the shorter reach on the Norco (my CX scrappy racer).
So I've ended up buying a cheapo Al frameset on AliExpress that has most of the numbers and features (12mm axles, flat mount, etc) that I think I want. For ~£220 its a relatively cheap experiment for me to build it up with parts (mostly) moved over from other bikes and decide if it's right or if I need to find yet another frame. It's going to serve duties as my 'Summer' Road and Gravel bike(s) with two wheelset and no intention to fit guards, I think I'll be dragging the London Road's life out as a Winter road bike (with permanently fitted guards and more robust tyres) as that's basically the role it's been fulfilling for the last few months...
But yeah, this is the type of bike I think I'm going to want from this point on, until I pop my clogs. Other stuff can come and go but a drop-barred "roadie-ish" thing that has the clearance for 40C tyres and can go off-road if I want it to is going to be the "if you could only have one" bike for me now...
Had a look at the Crockett, frame only so would need to build but some deals around (shame not on the best colours, which are fab). Geo looks pretty close to the mark. Not sure about the mudguard mounting possibilities (can take them, can't see too much detail on how). Tyres only up to 38mm.
Focus Paralane looks nice but is an endurance road bike which compromises clearance etc.
Ribble CGR? Although I am not sure if it comes as a 1x option.
Something off Paul's cycles? They had some good discounts.
Cannondale Topstones were also available at a big discount recently.
Dolan for more of the same generic carbon looking frames.
Giant Revolt. I was in the same boat as the OP last year; wanted a drop bar bike for road and gravel but not a heavy, burly, slow bike. Went for a custom build Revolt and found 35mm Schwalbe G one RS tyres to be just about perfect for a mix of road and off road. Sure a full on road bike with 25mm tyres will be faster but with the pot hole haven here in Kent I'd rather be on the Revolt with off road capabilities.
Something off Paul's cycles? They had some good discounts.
Cannondale Topstones were also available at a big discount recently.
Dolan for more of the same generic carbon looking frames.
I’m keeping an eye on Paul’s, despite the fact that it’s not at all what I want the half price Orange X9 with dropper and suspension fork is strangely alluring! Shame the rigid one is 650b.
Had a look at the Crockett, frame only so would need to build but some deals around (shame not on the best colours, which are fab). Geo looks pretty close to the mark. Not sure about the mudguard mounting possibilities (can take them, can't see too much detail on how). Tyres only up to 38mm.
Focus Paralane looks nice but is an endurance road bike which compromises clearance etc.
Oh - sorry, I didn't realise that it was frame only now. That's a shame, I wonder why.
Re: Tyres it is probably a 38mm limit on the back, but I had a 42mm with room to spare out front on mine. Re: mudguards, there are bolts behind the fork and in the chainstay junction, and I think somewhere else out back...can't quite remember unfortunately!
Anyway, all a moot point because of Trek's weird decision, you probably don't want to be building a whole bike up!
Had a look at the Crockett, frame only so would need to build but some deals around (shame not on the best colours, which are fab). Geo looks pretty close to the mark. Not sure about the mudguard mounting possibilities (can take them, can't see too much detail on how). Tyres only up to 38mm.
Focus Paralane looks nice but is an endurance road bike which compromises clearance etc.
Oh - sorry, I didn't realise that it was frame only now. That's a shame, I wonder why.
Re: Tyres it is probably a 38mm limit on the back, but I had a 42mm with room to spare out front on mine. Re: mudguards, there are bolts behind the fork and in the chainstay junction, and I think somewhere else out back...can't quite remember unfortunately!
Anyway, all a moot point because of Trek's weird decision, you probably don't want to be building a whole bike up!
Doesn't stop me getting out the spreadsheet and checking out what I can put together in budget given I can carry over bars, stem, chainset (GRX800), saddle, tyres from my CDA and there are some good offers on GRX800 bits and pieces if I shop around. I have a set of road wheels to slap on and can source a set of gravel wheels.
38mm rear tyre clearance, what does that mean with mudguards?
Doesn't stop me getting out the spreadsheet and checking out what I can put together in budget given I can carry over bars, stem, chainset (GRX800), saddle, tyres from my CDA and there are some good offers on GRX800 bits and pieces if I shop around. I have a set of road wheels to slap on and can source a set of gravel wheels.
38mm rear tyre clearance, what does that mean with mudguards?
Fair enough! I'm not sure about mudguards WITH 38mm tires, from memory there is enough clearance for them but I can't be certain - I only ever had guards on in road mode for winter club rides. If you like I can go and look at mine one evening this week and let you know how its looking / send a couple photos.
Mine is a 2015 model but I can't imagine the clearance has gone anything but up in the intervening time, if it has changed at all.
How about the Fairlight Strael. I have the 2.0 version. Super comfy, 32mm tyre capacity. Light enough. Bit of a wait though, but worth it!
Doesn't stop me getting out the spreadsheet and checking out what I can put together in budget given I can carry over bars, stem, chainset (GRX800), saddle, tyres from my CDA and there are some good offers on GRX800 bits and pieces if I shop around. I have a set of road wheels to slap on and can source a set of gravel wheels.
38mm rear tyre clearance, what does that mean with mudguards?
Fair enough! I'm not sure about mudguards WITH 38mm tires, from memory there is enough clearance for them but I can't be certain - I only ever had guards on in road mode for winter club rides. If you like I can go and look at mine one evening this week and let you know how its looking / send a couple photos.
Mine is a 2015 model but I can't imagine the clearance has gone anything but up in the intervening time, if it has changed at all.
Don't worry about pics as I'm sure the newer frames will be different. Also discovered it has a T47BB, another standard to try to get my head around!
How about the Fairlight Strael. I have the 2.0 version. Super comfy, 32mm tyre capacity. Light enough. Bit of a wait though, but worth it!
Lovely but way over budget which I am being firm on (I'm actually trying to fund this one by clearing out my arts bin etc). If I go steel I think the Cotic Escapade basic build is the limit of my budget.
Just as an option try looking at Cyclecross type bikes. I ride a Crux with road wheels. It's an absolute flying machine on the road, and can hold it's own on gravel.
This is a bargain https://startfitness.co.uk/products/cannondale-caadx-ultegra-mens-cyclocross-bike-2018-blue
How about replacing it with a very nicely specced CDF? I've just ordered, tonight, a Croix De Fer 50, full GRX 810, 853, carbon forks.....reduced to just £1650 (50% off!) so not far off your top end budget but a super spec....take a look at Biketart.....and the lower specced CDF's are all really cheap at Winstanleys.....I've been doing my research these past couple of weeks! 👍 👍
How about replacing it with a very nicely specced CDF? I've just ordered, tonight, a Croix De Fer 50, full GRX 810, 853, carbon forks.....reduced to just £1650 (50% off!) so not far off your top end budget but a super spec....take a look at Biketart.....and the lower specced CDF's are all really cheap at Winstanleys.....I've been doing my research these past couple of weeks! 👍 👍
darn it - two problems with my post there:
1. it was 99Bikes, not Biketart
2. they’ve just emailed me to say the bike’s out of stock!!!
🙄
How about replacing it with a very nicely specced CDF? I've just ordered, tonight, a Croix De Fer 50, full GRX 810, 853, carbon forks.....reduced to just £1650 (50% off!) so not far off your top end budget but a super spec....take a look at Biketart.....and the lower specced CDF's are all really cheap at Winstanleys.....I've been doing my research these past couple of weeks! 👍 👍
darn it - two problems with my post there:
1. it was 99Bikes, not Biketart
2. they’ve just emailed me to say the bike’s out of stock!!!
🙄
That sucks! I did look at Biketart's CDFs. They're all cable discs which I want to avoid (I have TRP Spyres at the moment and much prefer hydros).
Anyhow, things escalated last night and I had an ebay offer accepted on a paint sample Bowman Dirty Palace frameset (I've read about the history of Bowman and this frame is from a small batch commissioned by the new owner (so not out of the 'problem' factory)). At the price it is worth a punt and I can build with a mixture of current and new parts under my budget (with a GRX800 based groupset).
Frame has geometry close to what I am after, no weird standards, mounts for guards, 42mm tyre clearance and is going to have the surfaces chased before being sent to me. Fingers crossed.
CDF are lovely looking bikes, I have had 2. Worth a test ride though, I found them both really dull, don't think it's down to the extra weight, just a flat feeling, was same with a lovely orange Fugio I had too. They all had carbon forks and decent spec components and wheels.
My old Sonder aluminium and new Ti are incredibly flexible bikes reflecting riding that is often 60% road/light gravel.
On the aluminium I did a 2 day sportive from Leicester to London and it was a breeze, as well as boat loads of Pennine road climbing, so its certainly not "just for gravel"
The Apex (cable shifting) at £1,449.00 is great value, however the Apex XPLR (wireless shifting) at £1,799.00 is spectacular value.
As an aside, I also have a spare set of wheels with roady tyres on which gets me around a lot faster as well.
Do you want/need a second bike rather than a tweak/change to your current one? The only reason I ask is that my 'Road Bike' is a Supersix Evo CX which is bleddy light and fast (having swapped out the stock heavy CX wheels and tyres) but also has 45mm tyre clearance and comes with 1x Hydraulic SRAM Force groupset. I paid £2,500 (reduced from £5k) brand new and there are a few similar discounts about still.
Also have a Ribble CGR Ti which I did buy before they jumped in price a few of years ago and that's great too, super comfy but still rides nice and light/fast depending on tyres. They seem a bit pricy these days but maybe a couple of year old one? Or a PX Tempest? I do like a Ti frame through so I'm biased!
I'd be interested to know (once you have it in your hands of course) roughly what you paid for that Bowman OP, the RRP for a frameset (£700) seems 'keen' to me but the numbers do look spot on for an "All-Road" bike (71 HA / 74 SA sensible reach and 45mm tyre clearances).
But it is still Far eastern manufactured Aluminium and while I'm sure they've specified well above minimum QC, and are offering a 3 year Warranty (will your paint sample get the same?) those Geometry numbers are very close to the (Gulp) PX London Road which you can get in GRX 1x trim for ~£1600 (at least this week). (Planet X London Road Shimano GRX RX810 Bike)
Not that I'm a Fan of PX these days, But I do end up wondering if you're going to end up with something that is, in effect, a London Road, but with Nicer paint.
I'd be interested to know (once you have it in your hands of course) roughly what you paid for that Bowman OP, the RRP for a frameset (£700) seems 'keen' to me but the numbers do look spot on for an "All-Road" bike (71 HA / 74 SA sensible reach and 45mm tyre clearances).
I've paid a decent chunk less than RRP and if it's no good once in hands then it will go back (plus it should have the 3 yr warranty, given the nascent state of the 'new' company I appreciate it is a risk). I'm less concerned buy the 'made in the far east' tag, most frames are these days and most are of good quality, and my build using a few bits I already have will come in under the cost of the PX. I'll report back once I have the frame.
Do you want/need a second bike rather than a tweak/change to your current one?
Yes, I have a latest generation SuperSix Evo, it's a lovely thing as it is and is kept for road rides on (mostly) dry days. It has no mudguard mounts, it has limited tyre clearance, I don't want it constantly covered in mud/road grime, and I'd be very reluctant to leave it in my office bike store (even though it is 'secure').
What I need is a second bike to replace my workhorse that does everything else (commuting, winter road, light gravel) which is 10 years old. Times have changed and I want something a little nicer and more modern to replace it without breaking the bank.
Ribble CGR? Although I am not sure if it comes as a 1x option.
My first thought. They perhaps don't have the X factor of something like a Cotic or Mason, but pretty decent bikes, and not badly priced for what they are. I have a CGR Ti which has done me well for a few years now, and there's lots of scope to upgrade wheels and finishing kit as you fancy
I wanted to give an update about the CDF 50 I'd ordered from 99 Bikes at a great price, but that they subsequently didn't have in stock and cancelled my order....I was really disappointed as I'd spent ages deciding what I wanted.
Anyhow, there was good news in the end.
Massive shout-out to Biketart, as I contacted them and asked if they'd price match - and they did!
My sparkly new CDF50 arrived today and is already built up ready for a first ride tomorrow - well chuffed!
Kudos to Michael at Biketart for his help with this 👍
@velocipede Great news, Biketart have always been good when I’ve used them, enjoy the CDF.
My frame has now been faced and will be posted by the end of the week. In the meantime I’ve assembled the build kit;
GRX800 1x11 (I already have the chain set from a previous psa), SLX 11-42 cassette, all in sale from Merlin and Tredz
Fizik bar and stem plus my Ec90 saddle from my current bike (looking out for a used Spesh power on eBay), carbon post in the Merlin sale.
JRA carbon wheels from the classifieds with my current GravelKings (was going to go for new Hunt 4 Seasons but the JRAs came up at the right time).
Some SKS mudguards, fresh bar tape.
Should be a nice build all well within my budget. Will post pics once I get around to building it (no doubt I’ll have forgotten something).
Giant TCX great on and off road. Fast enough to keep up with the Sunday club run with 28mm trees and plenty capable with some fatter rubber on the bridleways.
Build finished this weekend. Not fitted mudguards yet, will hold off u til the weather turns again.
That is well nice, but in no way an all road bike!
Was exactly what I was after in an ‘all road’ bike. Geo between a gravel bike my road bike. Room for 40c tyres (35s on at the moment as that’s what I have) and mudguards. 1x for simplicity.
Will be used for winter road, commuting and gravel (in the non paved road sense rather than 90s xc version).
Get an old Pompino, stick a decent set of wheels on it and you have a bike you can use and abuse on any surface. Use the money saved to go on adventures. 🙂