Topic starter
The Wera hex + Allen keys seem like a great idea. Kinda like the flank drive sockets I think Snap On introduced back in my Ford garage days.
However, despite carefully using one on my Zeb Maxle over the last 2 years (wheel has been out maybe 200 times) the axle is “sticking” to the key which suggests the axle’s hex is starting to get mullered.
Are Rockshox hex Maxles made of Gouda? Burgtec much better are they?
Maybe the Wera HexPlus keys aren’t ideal for alloy bolts.
I’ve switched to a regular key now and that sticks in the boot head too, hmm, not ideal
What do we reckon are the best T handle keys? Beta96T maybe. They seem very well made and hard material?
Or just a plain Bondhus bent hex? I’ve loads of those. Some show wear tho.
thx
Posted : 12/04/2025 7:50 pm
I think they're just made from soft material. The qr maxle on my Revs chewed itself to pieces through normal use.
Do you tighten it with a torque wrench? I've never bothered on a front wheel because it's on and off every time the bike goes in the car. I've often though that I'm probably over tightening it.
The idea of the hex plus is that the tool bears onto the walls of the fastener where a normal hex bears onto the corners. If you're rounding stuff off with a hex plus, you certainly have rounded it with a regular hex.
If it's rounded, it's either crappy soft metal or over tight. Possibly both.
Posted : 12/04/2025 9:20 pm
mudfish reacted
The wera hex + keys I have are the absolute worst things ever.
The smaller size ball ends were mostly rounded by my kid wrenching his r/c car and I've had similar damage inflicted on larger alloy hex's.
Posted : 13/04/2025 12:34 am
People have different experiences, but I've used Wera Hex Plus keys at work for around 3 years with no issues, other than the coloured sheaths come loose after a while. I also have a ratchet set and that funky Zyklop driver at home. They are a looser fit which can be a bit disconcerting, but they engage really well and I've never had any rounding off problems. I don't know about the ball ends because I never apply any torque with them.
Posted : 13/04/2025 2:59 am
If you've had the axle out over 200 times, I'd say that's normal wear and tear and it's just time to replace it. In fact I reckon you've done well to make an alloy bolt head last that long, I'd continue with your procedure.
Posted : 13/04/2025 5:14 am
Topic starter
Yeah might be time for a new axle soon. Burgtec seems a good option perhaps and it has the hex both ends too, just in case. I did see a Ti throughbolt on AliExpress - popped when I googled “a better Maxle”. Might be interesting.
perhaps stronger on the hex than alloy and only a bit heavier.
I just found this on AliExpress: ￡13.29 | HEPPE MTB Road Bike Titanium Thru Axle Ultra Light Bike Axle 12x142 12x148 Rear Hub Thru Axle Bike Fork 12x100 12x110 Shaft
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvjKP8u
there’s a lot of choice there but hard to tell how good the alloy ones are. Not a great place to be saving on a cheap bolt!
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:39 am
Topic starter
If you've had the axle out over 200 times, I'd say that's normal wear and tear and it's just time to replace it. In fact I reckon you've done well to make an alloy bolt head last that long, I'd continue with your procedure.
yeah agree but remember 200 in/out is only 2 rides a week for 2 years.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:42 am
yeah agree but remember 200 in/out is only 2 rides a week for 2 years.
Not sure I understand the point there. 200 operations is still 200 operations no matter the time they've been carried out over. A chain on a 5000 mile per year bike would wear out on a much shorter time than a 500 mile per year one, but milage would be similar.
Soft aluminum alloy bolt, hardened steel tool, it's done alright no matter the age. Could always get a plastic Allen key for the replacement I suppose. 😁
Posted : 13/04/2025 7:02 am
I'm guessing that taking the wheel out that often means slinging the bike in the car a couple of times a week.
Might be worth considering the quick release version for convenience and durability.
Get the one with the internal cam though. The one that opens, then levers against the edge of itself chews up pretty quickly.
Posted : 13/04/2025 7:07 am
hightensionline and ratherbeintobago reacted
If the axle has a slightly oversized hole then any Allen key will start mashing the hole. I don't think the Wera keys can be specifically to blame.
Posted : 13/04/2025 7:38 am
I’ve found wera allens to be prone to rounding out bolts in the smaller sizes (~2.5mm and less). Rounded a couple of mech adjust points. Tend to grab out my older set of normal keys for loosening stiff grub screws and similar.
Not seen any problems in the bigger sizes but will perhaps keep more of an eye out now!
Posted : 13/04/2025 8:05 am
Might be worth considering the quick release version for convenience and durability.
^^This^^
If you've got a pattern of use that requires wheels on/off on a daily basis then an axle with an integrated lever makes some sense. But also axle design is worth looking at, an axle with a deeper hex and/or a hex on both ends for emergency backup.
Posted : 13/04/2025 8:58 am
Certainly on the rear, I went to Burgtec. Main reason was its 6mm, so same tool front and back.
Cant comment on the Wera tool except maxles are pretty soft and the rear 5mm really benefits from a decent length of tool inserted, so to speak.
Posted : 13/04/2025 2:06 pm
Get the one with the internal cam though. The one that opens, then levers against the edge of itself chews up pretty quickly.
Mutter mutter usual crappy SRAM design mutter.
Posted : 13/04/2025 3:57 pm
I don't use my hex+ much, they're good for some specific jobs but they can definitely cause problems too. I just think good quality plain hexes are as good or better much of the time, and never much worse, whereas hex+ is better some of the time, but can be much worse.
To me it feels like over time the bolts get more and more sensitive to it- I think what probably happens is that the different contact point design does work but every bolt can naturally deform a little every time you tighten and untighten it, and over time if you use them often the bolt gets less hex shaped and more hex+ shaped. Which I don't think has ever been a problem for me where I always used hex+ but it has been where I use hex+ and standard.
And yep alu bolts are massively more sensitive to wear, and it feels like maxle ones are a little sloppier than most when new? Which instantly worsens everything. One plus side of bike axles is that they usually have really deep engagement but not all tools will actually make use of that, whereas straight-shank allens/hexes will go straight to the bottom and use the full depth. I've no idea if the modern maxles are like this or not though, old ones used to be.
Posted : 13/04/2025 4:52 pm
I’ve found the Wera Hex+ are much better with the annoyingly soft alloy sliding dropout bolts on my Moxie, that have to be torqued to 25Nm.
Posted : 13/04/2025 5:50 pm
Topic starter
yeah agree but remember 200 in/out is only 2 rides a week for 2 years.
Not sure I understand the point there. 200 operations is still 200 operations no matter the time they've been carried out over. A chain on a 5000 mile per year bike would wear out on a much shorter time than a 500 mile per year one, but milage would be similar.
Soft aluminum alloy bolt, hardened steel tool, it's done alright no matter the age. Could always get a plastic Allen key for the replacement I suppose. 😁
what I mean is it’s not a lot of use as bike trips go.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:13 pm
Topic starter
I don't use my hex+ much, they're good for some specific jobs but they can definitely cause problems too. I just think good quality plain hexes are as good or better much of the time, and never much worse, whereas hex+ is better some of the time, but can be much worse.
To me it feels like over time the bolts get more and more sensitive to it- I think what probably happens is that the different contact point design does work but every bolt can naturally deform a little every time you tighten and untighten it, and over time if you use them often the bolt gets less hex shaped and more hex+ shaped. Which I don't think has ever been a problem for me where I always used hex+ but it has been where I use hex+ and standard.
And yep alu bolts are massively more sensitive to wear, and it feels like maxle ones are a little sloppier than most when new? Which instantly worsens everything. One plus side of bike axles is that they usually have really deep engagement but not all tools will actually make use of that, whereas straight-shank allens/hexes will go straight to the bottom and use the full depth. I've no idea if the modern maxles are like this or not though, old ones used to be.
thx
food for thought. A comprehensive answer.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:15 pm
Topic starter
Certainly on the rear, I went to Burgtec. Main reason was its 6mm, so same tool front and back.
Cant comment on the Wera tool except maxles are pretty soft and the rear 5mm really benefits from a decent length of tool inserted, so to speak.
googled Burgtec reviews. Reports of rear snapping on Reddit
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:16 pm
Topic starter
If you've got a pattern of use that requires wheels on/off on a daily basis then an axle with an integrated lever makes some sense. But also axle design is worth looking at, an axle with a deeper hex and/or a hex on both ends for emergency backup.
yes. Good points.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:17 pm
Topic starter
I'm guessing that taking the wheel out that often means slinging the bike in the car a couple of times a week.
Might be worth considering the quick release version for convenience and durability.
Get the one with the internal cam though. The one that opens, then levers against the edge of itself chews up pretty quickly.
got a link please? I’m not familiar with those lever Maxles. I read there’s a (crap) “lite” but not how they operate.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:19 pm
what I mean is it’s not a lot of use as bike trips go.
My MTB is from 2020 and I'd estimate the front wheel has been out 15 times in it's lifetime because I have a van that it rolls into when not riding from the door. I reckon your use case is actually pretty harsh.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:54 pm
googled Burgtec reviews. Reports of rear snapping on Reddit
How many have failed? I read it as one, which was a replacement on a bike that was known to snap the axle supplied originally.
Posted : 13/04/2025 6:57 pm
Topic starter
googled Burgtec reviews. Reports of rear snapping on Reddit
How many have failed? I read it as one, which was a replacement on a bike that was known to snap the axle supplied originally.
ah great if its just the one.
Posted : 13/04/2025 9:20 pm
I replaced mine with a burgtec one, it was cheaper and quicker to get hold of
Posted : 14/04/2025 8:27 am
https://robertaxleproject.com/?srsltid=AfmBOookDSWCGdg5P0jCVhyRiwIjapIP9L8Y6oDo9glUa1uIlGOcsp_J
Not used the burgtec axle but these are very good
Posted : 14/04/2025 8:45 am
Topic starter
https://robertaxleproject.com/?srsltid=AfmBOookDSWCGdg5P0jCVhyRiwIjapIP9L8Y6oDo9glUa1uIlGOcsp_J
Not used the burgtec axle but these are very good
thanks but not for Zeb (or any forks) it seems from their site
Posted : 14/04/2025 10:15 am
Looking into it a bit more it seems Wheels Manufacturing do through axles with a 5mm hex on both ends, which seemed a bit small to me when everyone else seems to have a 6 or 8mm hex.
But then it occurred, if you've got a UDH hanger on the back and goose the non-drive side hex, you should easily be able to get a 5mm through the centre of the (8mm hex) bolt on the hanger still, and you get more meat to hammer a torx bit into in the absolute worst case. Plus a 5mm hex should be perfectly adequate for the ~12Nm you are supposed to be applying to through axles...
Posted : 14/04/2025 10:50 am
Ive got the were hex+ and standard were and a number of other manufacturers.
The hex+ keys imo definitely round out a lot easier. i find that yes you can applu more torque with one, maybe to remove a stuck bolt. but it will damage the fastener a lot sooner than a standard hex.
if your getting some replacements. get some bacho ones as they appear to be consistent.
Posted : 14/04/2025 11:14 am
what I mean is it’s not a lot of use as bike trips go.
It's absolutely loads.
"Ordinary" aluminium bolts in larger sizes are usually specced for low double digit use where i've played with them. Sort of 20-25-30 uses. Can't think i've got a single wheel that's been off more than 30 times a year, even on old QR wheels. And i doubt a 5/6mm hex with a torque spec that is (probably) rarely followed will be a lot less!
The smaller size ball ends were mostly rounded by my kid wrenching his r/c car and I've had similar damage inflicted on larger alloy hex's.
There are (much) better tools for RC cars. Ball ends are really a bad idea in most cases anyway (i usually chop mine off TBH)
Posted : 14/04/2025 11:19 am
Topic starter
Ive got the were hex+ and standard were and a number of other manufacturers.
The hex+ keys imo definitely round out a lot easier. i find that yes you can applu more torque with one, maybe to remove a stuck bolt. but it will damage the fastener a lot sooner than a standard hex.
if your getting some replacements. get some bacho ones as they appear to be consistent.
yeah I’m definitely a Bahco fan and have a few sets. Should have stuck to using those.
good to have feedback on hex plus, I’d say definitely not suitable for Maxles.
Posted : 14/04/2025 3:08 pm
Do you tighten it with a torque wrench? I've never bothered on a front wheel because it's on and off every time the bike goes in the car. I've often though that I'm probably over tightening it.
I used the torque wrench the first time then used a small line of white pen on the lowers and maxle. When they line up its correctly tightened with no hassle or faff
Posted : 14/04/2025 5:02 pm
nwgiles reacted
Topic starter
Do you tighten it with a torque wrench? I've never bothered on a front wheel because it's on and off every time the bike goes in the car. I've often though that I'm probably over tightening it.
I used the torque wrench the first time then used a small line of white pen on the lowers and maxle. When they line up its correctly tightened with no hassle or faff
yeah bi learned the “feel” using a torque wrench. I’m not over tightening.
thx
Posted : 14/04/2025 5:21 pm
I use normal Allen keys on thru axles as you can get them in deeper that Wera+ then I finish with a torque wrench, Rockshox axles aren't great, first thing I do is replace them with a Burgtec axle , if I buy a new frame or fork I'll buy a Burgtec axle for it at the same time.
Posted : 14/04/2025 10:11 pm
Posted : 15/04/2025 10:56 am
Topic starter
https://robertaxleproject.com/product/lightning-bolt-on-axle-front-15-mm-x-158-mm-x-1-5-thread/
not for fork axles it seems, thanks tho
Posted : 15/04/2025 11:34 am
Topic starter
I use normal Allen keys on thru axles as you can get them in deeper that Wera+ then I finish with a torque wrench, Rockshox axles aren't great, first thing I do is replace them with a Burgtec axle , if I buy a new frame or fork I'll buy a Burgtec axle for it at the same time.
very good point about insertion, the socket is quite deep. Good to have another Burgtec recommendation, I've always had very good experiences with their stuff
Posted : 15/04/2025 11:36 am
They definitely do fork axels it even says front in the image.
Posted : 15/04/2025 4:24 pm
mudfish reacted
Topic starter
They definitely do fork axels it even says front in the image.
yes I see that
but their website obertaxleproject.com/supported-axle-technologies/ doesn’t show them that I could see
hmm, found it now - how strange - I eventualy wised up and clicked your link.
https://robertaxleproject.com/product/lightning-bolt-on-axle-front-15-mm-x-158-mm-x-1-5-thread/
so, US based I think? looks like SJS have them tho, I'll keep that in mind, mines wearing but not quite done, thanks - appreciate it .
N
Posted : 15/04/2025 8:21 pm
"There are (much) better tools for RC cars."
I would assume there is also a more appropriate tool to do the wheel nut up other than the 3/8 drive ratchet, extension and 8mm socket he helped himself to? There might be a reason he shattered the drive shaft joint after putting his wheels back on.
Posted : 15/04/2025 8:49 pm
Topic starter
"There are (much) better tools for RC cars."
I would assume there is also a more appropriate tool to do the wheel nut up other than the 3/8 drive ratchet, extension and 8mm socket he helped himself to? There might be a reason he shattered the drive shaft joint after putting his wheels back on.
Who is this "he" doj guop an 8mm wheel nut with a socket and shattering the driveshaft?
Not me I guess - I was the OP and asked about Wera HEX Plus allen keys which are regular bent hand held allen keys.
There's no 3/4 ratchet and 8mm key involved, nor a shattered axle. In my case it's a 6mm hex [allen] socket in the RockShox Maxle and the nearest to a ratchet I ever used was a 1/2" drive torque wrench and 6mm allen to assess the hand pressure needed to torque correctly [8-13.5 Nm / 80-120 in-lb] when on the trail.
It turns out the HEX PLUS section on the Wera keys isn't THAT long so a key that goes in further will be better, back to Bahco.
Posted : 16/04/2025 7:17 am
