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What are people's thoughts with respect to the benefits of weight training. I mean particularly with respect to somebody who isn't a beginner who's progression has plateaued.
Performance at what?
I think most serious programmes use it.
I've been weight training for nigh on ten years and its benefited my mtb-ing no end. I tend to train three times a week but only use big compound movements where you use several large muscle groups - squats, deadlifts, power clean and press, bench press, etc... basically moves that will improve strength and power When I first started doing weights years ago I did loads of isolation exercise such as flies and bicep curls but I stopped doing those a while back as all they serve (for me) is adding definition.
Don't let people tell you you'll put loads of muscle on doing weights - you'll only add big slabs of muscle if you eat shed loads and lift big weights. I tend use several rep ranges such as 5 sets of 5 reps and traditional 3 sets of 8-10 reps and If i'm looking to improve endurance muscles I'll do 3 sets of 12 reps. There a whole host of benefits from resistance training - if you're new to it, start off with light weights till you perfect your form. And in my opinion free weights are superior to machines.
Mark
I would say yes, coming from someone who has lost a lot of aerobic fitness and also muscular in the last few months! While my general cardio fitness is getting better from riding regularly I feel lacking in strength. Core mainly. Couple of months in the gym and I know it will be right again. No scientific data from me! Just felt so much better when I was physically stronger, at the time I was doing was doing weights 2-3 times a week a long with an hour of cardio.
dont really know anything about weight training as an add on for mtbing, but the instinct says that adding the (right kind) of muscular strength has to benefit surely.
Any experts comment on whether a kettlebell based program is going to give much benefit?
What sort of weights are good for losing weight? compound moves or isolation stuff?
I dont want to get big, just lose about 3 stone.
[i]What sort of weights are good for losing weight? compound moves or isolation stuff?
I dont want to get big, just lose about 3 stone.[/i]
Would you not be better doing more cardio work if you want to lose 3 stone.
Gary M I believe a mix of both is better for losing weight !
to lose three stone, I'd address your diet first buddy. But training wise compound moves will be better as you're using more muscles per exercise. Weight training will help boost your metabolism so even at rest you'll burn more energy.
OP skills course will be the very best thing to improve your performance. UK Bike Skills (@jedi) will be the best money you ever send on biking apart from buying a bike in the first place. As for weights all round stuff, surprising amount of upper body used in mtb-ing.
@renton - for weight loss it's cardio and diet will give you the most. No harm though adding in weights for conditioning and variety in the training/workouts.
Yeh that's why I said 'more' cardio, not just cardio.
I joined a gym in July and go twice a week to do a full body workout. It's made a big difference to my cycling, I feel much more solid on the bike and it feels easier to get the power down.
[url= http://training4endurance.co.uk/improve-endurance/strength-training-for-endurance/ ]Training4endurance[/url]
Some really good info on here, all linked to studies.
Diet is slowly getting sorted, cant do much impact cardio currently due to knackered gastroc and soleus muscles in my left leg and also plantar fasciitis in my left foot!!
Limited really to x trainer and rowing and also bike !!
@renton - guilty of a bit of thread hijack but ... If you can row then just do 60 mins of that at moderate intensity at a fat burn heart rate (use a monitor). Weights will be good too, keep doing different things to keep heart rate up. Lazy diet, bran cereal - with semi/full skimmed or boiled/poached eggs, simple lunch (or breakfast again), portion controlled dinner (ie not too much) chicken/fish/vegetarian with no bread, rice, potatoes or pasta and zero (or very low) booze.
A track sprinter is not a good example for general endurance cycling.
It will benefit you no doubt. As someone who goes to a well equipped gym, I'm convinced that you don't need one. Some kettlebells, olympic rings (hanging from pull up bar) and other bits and bobs and you can get very strong.
Medicine balls make for good training. Its more like circuit training than time in the weights room and better for cycling IMO.
Apologies wasnt intending to hijack the thread!!
thanks for all the info !
Mountain Biking is a predominately (read almost entirely) an aerobic sport, unless you're doing Track/DH/4X/BMX weight lifting is going to add very little benefit to your mountain biking, particularly if you're only riding a few times a week. It may actually make you slower - adding unnecessary weight. Weight training is really something, in relation to endurance athletes, that you add in when you get closer to or at elite level, when you're looking to improve neuro function and core stability during the off-season and you're already doing a lot on the bike already.
If you want to lose weight, weight lifting isn't the way forward - going out for a bike ride will not only improve your aerobic fitness far more, but it will have far greater calorific expenditure. Ultimately weight loss comes through adjusting your diet, i.e. less calories in, more calories out to put it simply.
Mountain Biking is a [b]predominately (read almost entirely) an aerobic sport[/b], unless you're doing Track/DH/4X/BMX weight lifting is going to add very little benefit to your mountain biking, particularly if you're only riding a few times a week.
That's a bit of a generalisation. Surely mountain biking will require some downhill riding, some use of the upper body to get over obstacles, some use of the core to manual through stuff and some leg power (from time to time). For all these, just riding will be less effective than resistance training especially if you are only riding a few times a week.
Mountain Biking is a predominately (read almost entirely) an aerobic sport, unless you're doing Track/DH/4X/BMX weight lifting is going to add very little benefit to your mountain biking, particularly if you're only riding a few times a week. It may actually make you slower - adding unnecessary weight. Weight training is really something, in relation to endurance athletes, that you add in when you get closer to or at elite level, when you're looking to improve neuro function and core stability during the off-season and you're already doing a lot on the bike already.If you want to lose weight, weight lifting isn't the way forward - going out for a bike ride will not only improve your aerobic fitness far more, but it will have far greater calorific expenditure. Ultimately weight loss comes through adjusting your diet, i.e. less calories in, more calories out to put it simply.
Spouting some serious shite here. Let me guess, you are a roadie who rides a mtb and dislikes going downhill or anything technical?
Weight training is one of the best things to improve performance on a MTB.
MTB involves balance, hip power, upper body strength, explosiveness, muscular endurance, core stability and proprioception. All things that can be trained with weights and a decent program.
Don't know about weight training but I do a run focused circuit session once a week and it's hugely improved my fitness. This time last year I was hugely suffering with lower back stiffness, could hardly surf and mornings I was getting up bent doubled over until I could loosen up. Since starting circuits in march I know have no back probs at all.
Not so much weight training but I'm currently looking at starting a strength and conditioning program. (when I can find one that doesn't need lots of kit or lots of space).
More about protecting the body so injury doesn't stop you from benefitting from the bike training.
I do loose weights (upper body) after turbo sessions. I think I can say they've helped. Mainly on big hills or races with plenty of climbs, or very rough bumpy courses. When the legs are going you can bully your body up or along them.
Also good for core strength and alleviating tiredness.
Kettlebelll over bars/bells training for cyclists.
Spouting some serious shite here. Let me guess, you are a roadie who rides a mtb and dislikes going downhill or anything technical?Weight training is one of the best things to improve performance on a MTB.
MTB involves balance, hip power, upper body strength, explosiveness, muscular endurance, core stability and proprioception. All things that can be trained with weights and a decent program.
You guessed wrong...
Like I said weight training improves neuro function and core stability, but in a hierarchy of what improves you as a mountain biker it's way down the list. Most of the current research says plyometrics is far more effective at improving neuro function and body weight exercises will be more than adequate in improving your core stability to a good standard.
Yes some people do need to do weight training, but they're exceptions to the rule. They either have vast inadequacies of a given muscle group or are elite athlete looking for the 'marginal gains', even then weight training isn't a salient feature of many annual training plans, prominent during the winter as part of the prepartion phase, but they're elite athletes and very different to the archetypal bloke on an mtb. It would be completely illogical to use strength training on a muscle group that already has the adequate strength to perform what is demanded of it. If you're a grown adult who isn't built like an Italian mountains man in pro peleton you probably have the strength to perform things like manuals/bunnhops/navigating technical terrain. There are still some exceptional professional mountain bike races who are built like teenage girls, but could get down a downhill route on their hardtails than 99% can on their skill compensator.
I think this can be summarised by saying that; weight training is a sufficient, but not necessary, nor the most efficacious method of improving mountain bike (XC/trail) performance in most cases.
Doing too much of anything will lead to deficiencies elsewhere, so it's really good practice to do exercises that balances things out, will definitely help keep you injury free, and the core work will only make you stronger and faster on the bike, I say that as someone who tends towards longer distances (as in multi days)
Personally, I’d suggest staying well clear of machines, they do nothing other than build specific muscle groups and do nothing for functional strength (plus they keep sports injury types in plenty of work!), speak to some one who knows what they are doing and you’ll get a work out using nothing more than body weight and a few odds and sods (amazing how good a work out you’ll get from a rubber band, a sand bag and a old tyre!)
Doing too much of anything will lead to deficiencies elsewhere, so it's really good practice to do exercises that balances things out, will definitely help keep you injury free, and the core work will only make you stronger and faster on the bike.
The [b]captain_bastard[/b] speaks much sense 😀
Beware doing too much cycling and nothing else as it can lead to some unpleasant repetative strain issues. If your starting out at a gym and know nothing INVEST in the use of a personal trainer until you know what your doing. So many people do injuries to themselves in gyms with poor technique its horrifying.
in a hierarchy of what improves you as a mountain biker it's way down the list
this
What are people's thoughts with respect to the benefits of weight training
all things being equal, if you want to do some weights, do some weights, weights are good, they will not do you any harm and being stronger than what you are is never a bad thing.
but if you're specifically looking for MTB performance increase, look elsewhere
Dig your own trails and jumps. You get stronger digging, improve your skills by building stuff that is at your level and its fun.
Danny Hart
Macavity -
Most of the stuff Danny Hart is shown to be doing with Wadsworth and in Minaar's thing(who's meant to be the best in the business for mtb coaching in the UK) are either core work or plyometrics. Although I guess is depends what you define strength training as, but most people really mean resistance training with the aim of increasing strength.
I can only speak from personal experience, but doing weighted squats has significantly increased my power output and resistance to fatigue on the bike. Whilst that may not be functional muscle gain for cycling its seems to have strengthened supporting muscles.
I would say if you can lose 3 stone then you haven't much to lose by doing weight training.
Please ignore anyone who says weights add unnecessary mass. I started weight lifting 4 years ago and I'm the same weight, however my strength Is significantly improved. If you use the right repetitions and don't eat like a horse you'll be fine!
Anyway, as a result, my endurance is improved, grip strength way better, more control through the rough stuff etc etc. I and I know it's the weights that have caused it because we had our first child last year so i barely get on the bike but haven't had any drop in performance since I've kept up the weights.
double post
Some people might have read the title of the original post and thought weight training = training with weights
But
" Most of the stuff Danny Hart is shown to be doing with Wadsworth and in Minaar's thing(who's meant to be the best in the business for mtb coaching in the UK) are either core work or plyometrics. Although I guess is depends what you define strength training as, but most people really mean resistance training with the aim of increasing strength."
Thanks for the "guess" ollie51
Lance Armstrong
Chris Hoy
I used to do a weekly circuit training session that my old bike/running club ran, along with riding mtb or running pretty much every day. I thought the circuits were just a laugh and didnt think much of it, until I moved away and didnt do it any more.
After a year of just riding and running, cue hideous stiffness and all sorts of issues.
I now run my own circuits session in the garden or living room with friends and I'm back to feeling good again. I feel strong on the bike and get up in the morning without pain.
I do mainly body-weight exercises but also use light weights and those big rubber bands. Most of the things I use cost less than a tenner.
I do love kettlebells though... I find them really fun and you don't notice you're essentially doing a full hour on non-stop squats.
I find exercises by reading articles in magazines (Outdoor fitness is good) and on-line. Anything you can find on strength training for running will most likely be good for riding. There is lots more info on running than riding.
Or go to a circuits class? They're usually very good fun and all the equipment is provided.
I can certainly attest to the fact that you won't put on bulk. Barely a visible muscle on me, but I feel stronger.
Re this -> http://anthonycolpo.com/cycling-and-bone-health-why-cyclists-must-lift-weights/
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Interesting - I wonder if typical professional and elite cyclists have low bone density from birth, could be one of the many genetic pre-requisites, like a monster vo2 max and exceptional metabolic efficiency. Obviously riding road all the time doesn't help this.
Whilst the article concludes that one should lift weights if you're a die hard roadie, it also provides another implied conclusion - regular mtb'ing/running will improve bone density too. More mtb/cx anyone?
as mentioned earlier strength training isn't just going to the gym and bulking up (maxial strength training will cause hypertrophy or an increase in muscle bulk but lower level strength training is thought to improve the efficiency of the neuro-muscular complex not increase size). It can range from motor control exercises which help restore normal muscle patterning all the way up to maximal strength, power training (with plyometrics and ballistic movements)and can incorporate sensory motor control training which essentially improves your balance (when working lower limbs/trunk)
I believe strength training (when done appropriately) can be very useful for mountain bikers for reducing the risk of injury by addressing muscle imbalances caused by the repetitive action of cycling and by increasing the resilience of the soft tissues (muscle/tendon) to stress meaning you will be less likely to develop muscle strains/tendonopathies.
Because mountain biking involves bursts of strength and power, training these qualities can only improve performance as well. For example, if you need a burst of power to clean the top of a technical climb then power training for your legs will come in useful or if you find your forearms/quads get tired on long descents building up strength/endurance in the gym will also help.
If time is limited consider strength training during the winter months when the weather is grim and the woods are sloppy. This is what I do but I am getting a bit soft
Most of the stuff Danny Hart is shown to be doing with Wadsworth and in Minaar's thing(who's meant to be the best in the business for mtb coaching in the UK) are either core work or plyometrics. Although I guess is depends what you define strength training as, but most people really mean resistance training with the aim of increasing strength
He also helped Liam Killeen a bit too