Don't know how many are following it this year but junior female is 12.45 today and male junior 1.15 onwards.
There's a bit of contention floating about in the Elites with Adam Brayton and a confusion in the rules/points which means he doesn't have the required number of points to be allowed to race this weekend (and others potentially)
Qualifying later will be interesting to see if Jackson is at the pointy end, Vergier is flying in timed runs, some others either didn't care/try or had a few issues. Danny right up the sharp end in timed, Minaar too...
So who's your predictions. I'm taking Valentina as you'd expect in the womens and i'll take Vergier on the Session to keep my lad happy in the male.
Bring it on. Looking forward to it. I’m not sure what the confusion around Adam is to be honest. You need 40 uci ranking points to race and he has 12
It's not confusion. The UCI, in it's wisdom, has decided that the semi finals don't get you any UCI points.
Just another way of ensuring privateers are being screwed over.
Bring it on. Looking forward to it. I’m not sure what the confusion around Adam is to be honest. You need 40 uci ranking points to race and he has 12
The confusion seemed to be around whether WC semi-final points contributed to your tally (they do not).
Looks like a great course but the speed vs consequences of it make me wince a bit! Weather could play a part on Sunday.
LOL don't go there man, i can't cope with more of your posts... FWIW, you make SOME good points over on PB... but i don't necessarily agree with all of them. However, I probably do agree more than some of the other contributors who REALLY don't agree with you.
I never said there was confusion, i said there was contention 😀
I think the whole Brayton thing has shown a lot of people that there's flaws in plans and ways around them. At this stage i've not looked into what other races apart from National Champs can accrue points, i got the impression IXS may do so, which if that's the case then you'll likely find (as you implied/hoped) that lower end series like IXS will increase in rider base as the borderline Elites go to these to score points for qualifiication to WCs. That could be a good thing of course, but don't forget it also increases the expenditure for the riders to get to these places. I was looking at an IXS for the boy recently and i think it was 1300 miles and that's 1 way only... Which makes it fairly prohibitive. There are some a bit closer, but the timings never worked out.
I do wonder though if some of the French DH races score points and whether we'll see riders hitting them to get the points etc.
The confusion seemed to be around whether WC semi-final points contributed to your tally (they do not).
Exactly which is why given that’s what the rules stated back in January there is any confusion
LOL don’t go there man, i can’t cope with more of your posts… FWIW, you make SOME good points over on PB… but i don’t necessarily agree with all of them. However, I probably do agree more than some of the other contributors who REALLY don’t agree with you.
ok. I do find some of the reaction hilarious
ok. I do find some of the reaction hilarious
It's a very strange place. Some of the downvotes you see are just like WTF.... but nice you've got an invite to Xmas dinner..
The points situation is obviously not great but there appears to be an awful lot of people trying to be offended on behalf of Grandad, whereas he himself has stated that simply he didnt read the rules properly, and thats it, his problem. The riders need to pull together better if they want to sort sh*t like this, which they have previously tried but I dont think they've quite had the momentum needed thus far (2022 PB feature on riders union) See - Grand Prix Drivers Association for a good example.
Anyway - the racing will be amazing again I'm sure. Can't wait. Very interesting Nina Hoffman splits in timed training, she has something up her sleeve. I think she was pretty dissapointed after Fort William.
I'm not sure Jackson will be fully up to strength and speed yet as he is very slight. Jordan looks good. Loic will be pissed he's lost his striped. Entire Athertom team will be on fire too...
Camille, Nina or Marine for purely selfish reasons from the armchair. Let it be anyone but Vali.
If only Daprela could keep his head together, but let's be honest that's not going to happen until he gets some decent mental coaching! Fwiw Kolb's moustache is faster than Loris Vergier's.
To boot; on the Ned Flanders - Nigel Mansell fast moustache scale, he's up at the Mansell end.
Kolb's got this one by a whisker in front of Jackson .
Edit:
All the French cup races this season were UCI C1, so on an even scoring with the iXS and Crankworx.
Ethan Craik earned himself 100 points last weekend for his 3rd place at the European continental champs, Brayton flatted and finished 68th.
If only Daprela could keep his head together, but let’s be honest that’s not going to happen until he gets some decent mental coaching!
Yeah but he's ace to watch. It always makes me laugh when a commentator says "i can't believe Daprela has crashed" i mean REALLY, you must be able to believe it by now... He's just right on the edge every second of a run..
How does Gee Atherton just turn up and get to be able to ride ? He hasnt done a race in years has he?
How does Gee Atherton just turn up and get to be able to ride ? He hasnt done a race in years has he?
Part of an Elite team. They sign/roster riders each season. Apparently the team pays ITRO £23,000 to become an official Elite/UCI/whatever team and the riders can race then, or at least attempt to. Brayton is a solo/privateer so doesn't have the affiliation to a full on Elite squad. I believe these teams have to pay a higher rate per weekend for 'entries' but will also get pit-space allocated in the same postcode.
Part of an Elite team. They sign/roster riders each season. Apparently the team pays ITRO £23,000 to become an official Elite/UCI/whatever team and the riders can race then, or at least attempt to.
Fair enough - I guess thats why its in Elite Teams interest to sign good riders as it cost them !
Looks like the way forward is that you have to get a pro contract. Shouldnt that be what Elite sport is?
Looks like the way forward is that you have to get a pro contract. Shouldnt that be what Elite sport is?
Mmmmmm possibly yes... but it does leave the options for an up and coming rider a lot harder in some ways too. There's only so many teams and of course only so many places within each team therefore a rider who comes into a season having found something over winter may struggle because of that. I'm not sure there's a perfect answer that ticks all boxes for riders who are pro, not-pro, newibes, youngsters, injured, comebacks.... there's good and bad within all bits of it.
Shouldnt that be what Elite sport is?
Elite sport should be who is the fastest.
Not a combination of who is the fastest/has the most instagram followers/has the right contacts/has the most money...
Don't get me wrong, all those things are always going to help, but the rules with protected riders getting into the finals and no UCI points for semis shows that DH wants the appearance of being 'pro' but is not popular enough yet for that to happen organically so they are trying to artificially shuffle the privateers out of the picture.
I liked the first PB comment.
'Chris Ball, stop watching Drive to Survive.'
Anyway, this weekend.
Anyone else waiting for Gracey Hemstreet to put a complete run together?
She's pretty much my only hope of anyone not letting Vali Holl win everything for the next 3 years.
Camille, Nina or Marine for purely selfish reasons from the armchair. Let it be anyone but Vali.
agreed.
Not a combination of who is the fastest/has the right contacts/has the most money…
I take the view that the factory/ elite teams have the best riders on them. Why wouldn’t they. Equally how many of the best riders turn down the offer to ride for one of them
Why wouldn’t they
Because representing a brand is about more than just how fast you are. Your job is to make people want to buy bikes.
And quite apart from that, being the best is, by nature, a transitory thing. A lot can happen between signing a contract and the end of that contract.
She’s pretty much my only hope of anyone not letting Vali Holl win everything for the next 3 years.
I wonder how much of Holl's winning comes down to strength training? She's a strong lass compared to the others, is she partly just muscling the crap out of it and fighting it to the bottom ? When you see how strong all the Elite males are and how they massively seem to work on strength, maybe Holl being a bit more 'beefy' than the others plays a factor ? Of course she's damn skilled too 😀
Whoah, Gee racing! Didn’t see that one coming. Can’t see him doing that great tbh but stranger things have happened. Would love for Greg to get a semi decent result, been a crappy year for him so far. Hopefully Danny can get a few more points than he has done recently too. Goldstone I think will probably not quite be up to speed understandably. Be interesting to see how Jordan gets on. So many names that could do it. Half want Kolb to win as he’s such a dude.
Women’s, it’s got to be Vali.
I wonder how much of Holl’s winning comes down to strength training?
Could be.
But at the same time we've often seen it in the women's field where you get one rider who dominates for a period of years before things settle down and become more competitive until another dominant rider comes along. Think ACC and Rachel Atherton type riders. Vali's showing all the signs of doing the same thing for the foreseeable.
I mean, it happens in the men's as well but I get the impression at the moment that any of the Top 5 (or maybe more) riders we now have would have dominated at pretty much any period in DH history. It's just now there are so many exceptional riders no one individual really stands out.
Maybe, difficult to know anything for sure.
Not sure if op got timings wrong but just watching junior men now on Discovery
The sound is really really bad as are a lot of the camera angles
Yeah i think the article must have been in Euro times sorry.
I wonder how much of Holl’s winning comes down to strength training? She’s a strong lass compared to the others, is she partly just muscling the crap out of it and fighting it to the bottom ?
Nina looks like a very strong lady too. Some rely on strength, some technique and line choice, and most a bit of both
Have really gone off the DH this year since the introduction of the new format. Haven't bothered to watch a single race despite having more than enough time to do so this year compared to last.
It would also seem as though a lot of riders are missing out and the coverage/format favours team riders to the disadvantage of privateers. There's going to be fewer new faces appearing if this continues.
Not good for the sport, imo.
It would also seem as though a lot of riders are missing out and the coverage/format favours team riders to the disadvantage of privateers.
Not if they'd been quicker... It favours the fastest, which happens to be the team riders. a bit unfair, maybe.... but reality of the world.
Juniors was good!
https://www.youtube.com/live/WA0I_m_9VxE?si=nVQGb-PlV5eara3t
It would also seem as though a lot of riders are missing out and the coverage/format favours team riders to the disadvantage of privateers.
Maybe. I would have thought that’s it’s the team bosses, who are at the event, privateers are out to impress to get on the top teams and the support that comes with that.
It favours the fastest,
Well, no.
If a protected rider crashes in the semis then that's not rewarding the fastest riders. I think having protected riders is OK for qualis but having it for the semis (and having it carry over from the previous season) just gives such an advantage to the established riders in so many ways.
Also, Adam Brayton is without a doubt fast enough to compete in this race. He's currently 55th in points. Just take a look at how many factory riders are below him in the rankings:
https://ucimtbworldseries.com/rankings/series/uci-dhi-world-cup/dhi-men-elite
It's great to see Gee back but it's honestly ridiculous that he gets to race while Adam doesn't.
Also, Adam Brayton is without a doubt fast enough to compete in this race. He’s currently 55th in points. Just take a look at how many factory riders are below him in the rankings:
Simple answer is... he's not scored enough points to be there. It's a 12 month rolling total and he had enough earlier in season but not later. I get the impression that if he'd known he would have played things differently, maybe racing something like IXS or French cup or something to get the extra points. I'm not denying he's good enough, but he ain't got the points needed.
Back a couple of years ago for example Tom Elsmore missed out on going straight to Elite by 1 point, so had to do a year in Expert instead... is that fair.. well, it's pretty harsh but it's just how it works.
You can't have 300 Elites come race, so 'something' has to be in place before hand to lower the field to the right numbers, sadly for Brayton this is the rule that's scuppered him. He got an 8th in the Nationals at Rhyd-Y-Felin, if he'd got 6th i think he would've been OK.
With the rule changes and point allocation it may be that riders need to consider their options differently in terms of what they enter, entering lower class races and winning to score the points (although i think the UK may not be very good for this).
As well as being powerfully built, Vali looks so much more natural and stylish on the bike compared to most of the others. I think she's just better equipped for World Cup DH as they're all in the gym these days.
With regards to the privateer thing... My opinion is if you're making it to semis, you are clearly fast enough to be there so should be accruing points to allow you to try and qualify for the next rounds.
Yes, in theory fastest riders will be on elite teams, but people shouldn't be massively disadvantaged for not being on an team. What we could end up with is elite teams being able to underpay (or moto style pay to ride) because they provide that guaranteed pathway, and privateers and up and coming riders being frozen out even if they have the speed to be there.
I’m not denying he’s good enough, but he ain’t got the points needed.
You don't think that regularly making the semis shouldn't be worth some points?
To me the fact it doesn't has two possible explanations:
1. The UCI forgot. Because they don't really care.
2. They did it intentionally to make life more difficult for privateers. Because they don't want privateers cluttering up the place. They think if they can just get rid of all the old transit vans then a flood of slick factory trailers will replace them.
Here's a crazy idea. If the UCI wants more elite teams then why don't they make it more financially rewarding to be an elite team instead of trying to artificially elevate the performances of the Factory riders?
You don’t think that regularly making the semis shouldn’t be worth some points?
PRobably mate yes... but it doesn't... and was laid out in the rules as given to them all. Whether we think it's fair or not, that isn't the case..
There's a lot wrong with UCI/ESO/DH and some of the bits are like the rest of your post above yes... The 'protected' rider thing also seems a little bizarre to me at times too. Although i think they're 'additional' so even if 10 of them didn't finish their run, you'd still get the same number, plus those 10.. (i think).
I think option 1 in your list above is more likely... they just didn't envisage every possible scenario ever possible on the planet... which then meant Brayton in this instance missed out.
What we could end up with is elite teams being able to underpay (or moto style pay to ride) because they provide that guaranteed pathway, and privateers and up and coming riders being frozen out even if they have the speed to be there.
Underpay ... lol... that's implying some of them PAY... you'd be surprised just how some of the 'teams' work... i'm not going to get into names of squads, but riders are often having to pay to get into a team (admittedly this is in the younger ranks, i don't know about the senior teams)... But i'd bet my bottom dollar, the exact scenario you mention above, is already happening.
PRobably mate yes… but it doesn’t… and was laid out in the rules as given to them all. Whether we think it’s fair or not, that isn’t the case..
But whether we (and the other riders) think it's fair is important and this is why is needs to be called out.
It was in the rules, but it's a stupid rule.
It's a shame the MTB media are so lazy, because there have been so many valid talking points from this season but no one does anything except re hash what's put infront of them. even the pinkbike article is just some quotes from Wyn's vlog so it's no suprise the comments are full of people who don't understand.
It’s a shame the MTB media are so lazy,
THere's been some articles highlighting that this week on PB
"Ones to watch this week" and then list 3 of the best riders... well clearly they're ones to watch, they're the best riders lol.
"viewing figuiures" .... but we don't have the Discovery+, GCN+ or Eurosport figures for the finals, only the Youtube views lol.... I mean WTF guys..
We're not talking about juniors. All of the elite teams pay though not to all riders or to the same extent.
I'm aware of how it works, my point was that being on elite team would end up being the only way to compete so those sub elite riders would end up in a powerless position.
I’m aware of how it works, my point was that being on elite team would end up being the only way to compete
I wasn't disagreeing
Ive just watched a minute or two of the Youtube version of the Juniors, the sound is loads better than it was on Discovery+ on my TV. On the TV all the background noise was equal to the commentators, it was impossible to hear them.
oh and I am convinced that the UCI are paying people to stand there and ring bells !
It’s a shame the MTB media are so lazy, because there have been so many valid talking points from this season but no one does anything except re hash what’s put infront of them
Agreed. Don’t forget though that the mtb media is largely funded by adverts and access to test products from the very same companies that fund the racing.
I will now go and put my foil hat away
Qualifying now
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/elite-qualifying-results-from-the-andorra-dh-world-cup-2023.html
As well as being powerfully built, Vali looks so much more natural and stylish on the bike compared to most of the others. I think she’s just better equipped for World Cup DH as they’re all in the gym these days.
Without intending to ‘fat shame’ she’s really not really powerfully built, she’s actually just overweight.
She’s winning because she’s a product of a lifetime of being in an environment that has fostered her development, much like Goldstone.
If you live it & breath it from the point at which you can walk, with a dose of natural talent & drive to achieve, thats where you end up.
Qualifying now
is Qualifying not available to watch ? I cant see it on my Discovery+ ?
Nah mate, fraid not... only on live timing.... weirdly.
Pinkerton was wild!
the sound is loads better than it was on Discovery+ on my TV. On the TV all the background noise was equal to the commentators, it was impossible to hear them.
I think it was in and out to be fair. I watched bits where all I could hear was a load of garbled commentary in another language right over the main commentary.
Super Bruni killing it in qualis. 2 and a bit seconds. Edit; oh not that much. But still first.
What’s happened to Cami? DNF and a long course hold to sort her out. Fingers crossed she is ok
That was mighty fast from Bruni.... Vergier not far off... the rest... .need to find some speed !!!
What’s happened to Cami?
She crashed on the bridge gap jump due to wind
Thanks
Elite practice
How did Gee Atherton get on ?
Gee was about 15 secs off the pace of the fastest. Qualified I think 90 something. Guess that’s him out of the race sadly.
Without intending to ‘fat shame’ she’s really not really powerfully built, she’s actually just overweight.
Wow. Really? Her body shape may be very different to someone like Seagrave but to say she’s not powerful but just overweight is literally fat-shaming 😳
She’s a world champion who puts a huge amount of gym work in and I’m sure she could out squat or bench press pretty much anyone in normal life.
How’s about we judge any riders by their skills and results and just not mention their bodies?
She’s a champion for many reasons but dedication and skills are probably the top factors.
Wow. Really? Her body shape may be very different to someone like Seagrave but to say she’s not powerful but just overweight is literally fat-shaming 😳
She’s a world champion who puts a huge amount of gym work in and I’m sure she could out squat or bench press pretty much anyone in normal life.
If you read what I actually wrote, I didn’t suggest she wasn’t actually strong. 🙄
I have no idea if she is or she isn’t, but you apparently are aware she is, as she ‘puts a huge amount of gym work in’.
I’m not disputing her ability to ride a bike, but clearly you didn’t read that bit either.
What's the schedule for tomorrow? I've seen a few posts saying there's no semi final? Is there a weather system rolling in and they've curtailed the racing??
Yup, sounds like just the one race race run #retro
GCN+ haven't updated the schedule on the app yet.. hope they pull their fingers out!
New update: race suspended until 12 CET
https://twitter.com/UCI_MTB/status/1695328530270147032?s=20
Oh.
Here at the top of the circuit and wind is still picking up. Anyone know what’s happening with the xc? Only have basic coverage..
she’s really not really powerfully built, she’s actually just overweight
It is difficult for females to achieve big strength without putting on fat. Naturally, that is. Holl may be at the strength she needs and the lowest strength to weight she can get to. Looking at the way she rides she is clearly a total powerhouse.
Looks like racing to start at 1.30 bst now.
Fingers crossed for fair conditions 🤞
Blimey this is all a bit confusing.
Good news about Cami though, apparently nothing broken just very sore. Saw a couple of comments yesterday saying she’d broken her hip…
It is difficult for females to achieve big strength without putting on fat.
Same with Sian A’Hearn… she looks solid, pretty sure I heard Jack Moir say she benched (or deadlifted?) more than any of the YT guys on their training camp.
Live broadcast is go!
The rain could make things interesting
Anybody watching on GCN+ via chromecast the audio always about 5 seconds out every time I've used it, it's really annoying.
I've given up casting from GCN+, just watch it on the tablet or laptop now. Casting it was shit
Anybody watching on GCN+ via chromecast the audio always about 5 seconds out every time I’ve used it, it’s really annoying.
Click on the live icon on phone/tablet and it should be on time with broadcast, mine is ok after doing that anyway
<p>The rain for the last 10 or so made a big difference. You could see the rocks and roots getting slippier and slippier.</p><p> </p>
You could see the rocks and roots getting slippier and slippier.
Why didn't the commentary mention it????
😂😂😂😂
Couldn’t hear the commentary from where I was standing…
I take it they may have mentioned it as well?
Well, so much for my prediction that no one will be able to touch Vali for the next 3 years 🙂
I hope Cathro tells us what was happening in the final sector. Looks like loads of riders lost between 0.5 and 1.5 seconds in the last few turns.
Also, I have to say, I didn't miss the semi-finals at all. Just watching everyone come down in one go is vastly preferable, imo.
New format showing an issue. No semis so no extra points. Those that had a better qualifying result started later in the worst of the weather and finished out of or low in the points. Had there been a semi they still would have been in the worst of the finals weather, but would at least have salvaged some points from semis. Such a short course keeps racing close, but exaggerates any deterioration in the course. Only 4.5 seconds between top twenty.
Good race. I thought Cedric had improved since before the break.
Top few runs and winning runs in the videos below.
I quite enjoyed the Rick and Cedric commentary.
Mens
Womens