[Closed] Waterproof & breathable without costing the earth?

Depends what's spendy to you.

Sports Pursuit had some paramo velez adventure smocks for £115 which is a great price for that particular jacket.

I have a slightly heavier weight Paramo jacket and the materials are amazing. Very very breathable.

Polaris gear has always been a good fit, price and quality for me.

Again depends what you mean by spendy. Rapha hardshell jacket currently reduced to £175 from £260, fantastic reviews, feels great to wear, but I guess that's spendy.

To paraphrase My Bontrager its generally 'cheap, waterproof, breathable' - pick two.

No such thing in my local climate (SW Scotland)

12 deg and pishing? if it keeps you dry from the rain, then it'll be soaking inside from sweat, unless you're a skinny, non sweaty racing snake, which you aren't.

Best I have had, and I've had lots, is a Gore Alp-X soft shell. unless it's really pissing, then it's spot on.

To paraphrase My Bontrager

You have your own Bontrager? impressive Gary!

Simon theres two types of Velez: Velez Adventure Light Smock or the Velez Smock. The latter will be too warm for riding? Same rain/elements protection skin though? I prefer to layer +/- up underneath. Plus the sizing. Only XL available- I'm XL in Montane due to my shoulders but more a large on my waist- how do they size up in the real world? (I'm 43chest/34waist).

The Velez is a baggy fit at the best of times. I have an Adventure Light. I've never tried cycling in it though as its a bit of a sail (and I'm more the short/stout sort of build).

Don't bother with waterproof and breathable, they don't work (can't due to physics). Best bet is to get a very light hardshell and keep it your pocket till it rains, then accept you'll get soaked with sweat.

The adventure light would probably be the best choice for cycling as its lighter than the normal velez and thus I imagine a bit more breathable. As has been mentioned they are a fairly casual fit. I am a large generally and large is spot on for me.

Skin, costs nowt, highly breathable & very waterproof

I reckon either of the Velez would be too warm for cycling.
I have the adventure light and I wouldn't want to ride in it, and as above, they are a bit flappy so you may as well stick with what you have.
Brilliant for walking in though and at that price I might just get another!

too baggy on the midsection

fat club is over there >

How about a Madison Apex?

I saw a Vaude jacket advertised in the section between this new post box and the forum posts recently. If I hadn't just bought a Mavic waterproof (which might fit your bill) I'd be looking at that. Can't find it now though.

Think this is the new Mavic

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mavic-sprint-h20-jacket-aw14/rp-prod89544?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom&gs=1&gclid=COu2_YablsMCFeHKtAodCXcA8A&gclsrc=aw.ds

Karrimor Alpiniste from Sports Direct. Don't know about the sizing but its cheap and made with event fabric.

I just bought a [url= http://www.stif.co.uk/mtb/product/fox-downpour-jacket/11924 ]fox downpour from stif[/url]. Only ridden a few times in it. Doesn't get hot, has zip vents if it does and it keeps the rain out. Don't know it that's what you're after though.

EDIT: ^^^ That mavic looks nice.

Got this for XMas, was delighted with it, until I ripped a big hole in it 3rd day out. Repaired now, hopefully good as new.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sugoi-icon-mtb-waterproof-jacket/

Some of the ^^££ are abit too much for me. Especially when you DO fall off!!

Pace 3x3.
Vulpine jacket from out the sale....bargain at £xxx.....I actually bought one to wear for MTB as I have one for road riding lovely jackets......super breathable and waterproof so far.....only thing is until my pace 3x3 dies a complete ripped to shreds death I can't bear the thought of coating the Vulpine in Chase Paste so wear it out and about as a nice casual jacket.
How about a Funkier TPU jacket from merlin, superb price and funkier stuff seems built for us big boned types. My mate has one and rates it for the money.
Polaris stuff seems to be quite impressive to in value terms, I just got one of their AM jackets (vapour) as I shredded my old Rab Generator. It's actually a bit better for heat regulation than the generator and not quite as hot.

Don't bother with waterproof and breathable, they don't work (can't due to physics)

That's not true at all. They can and do work, due to physics, but there are limitations.

Let me know if you want the full explanation.

Let me know if you want the full explanation

Science, innit.

Paramo now do the Ciclo jacket for guess what.... cycling

Gore fibres are used in space suits, so that makes it rocket science.

Get a decent soft-shell. They're not that expensive. You don't sweat to death in them, and while they don't keep you absolutely dry, I find they're miles better than horrible sweaty hardshell jackets.

Heres an idea. Why not try something on before you buy it? I know its a pretty revolutionary idea. It might just catch on though!

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/hardshell-jacket/product/HSJ01 ]Rapha hardshell jacket [/url]in the sales? Because you're worth it 😉

Paramo want 200 of your finest notes too.

Binners- do you spend your free time driving around bikeshops trying to see what they have in stock in your size?

Neither do I. We are both getting loaded after pressing 'buy now' on a internet site 8)

For breathability in the UK especially you want eVent or Endura's PTFE I think. They have tiny actual holes that let air in but not water. Other fabrics have a water permeable membrane that works much less well when it's not very cold but very humid - ie most of the time here.

The downside of eVent is that it needs reproofing a bit more often, and more washing too. If using any waterproof jacket on the MTB I think a rear guard is essential, and a good front one too.

But as above - only necessary in really heavy rain. Otherwise, stick an extra layer on under a windproof shell.

Erm.... I do when looking for something like a decent waterproof. Or shoes. Or helmets. Something where the fit is important. Don't bother with owt else. Just order fat bastard size. . 😳

Your best bet is to just get really drunk, and then have a look on't'interweb. Drunken purchases always work out well 😛

I think Andy Kirkpatricks writing is very illuminating on this

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_truth_about_breathable_waterproofs

Read his stuff about soft shell too

As a sweaty bastard (Tm) Ive pretty much accepted the idea that waterproofs are not for me unless it's truly I'm pretty much stopped still, and that polar proof is my friend for 98% of the rest of the time.

Your best bet is to just get really drunk, and then have a look on't'interweb. Drunken purchases always work out well

No because I'd end up with Tatiana and Stanka at the airport ringing me saying hello mista Mark we are your wives you ordered 😯

What you actually need is Epic cotton made jacket. The fibres are treated before the jacket is tightly woven. Air holes in the weave but won't let water through but sweat vapour escapes. That's why I mentioned the Vulpine jacket. The seams are not seam sealed and theoretically as they are a stitched point they could leak water however I've been in proper downpours on the bike in mine with water beading straight off and no ingress through any seams.
Check out what they have left in the sale or look for epic cotton jackets on Google.

Paramo to hot even the adventure light for English weather / temps, I know from experience! Sold them for good money on eBay they hold their money if you do get one,

I've never found anything that's properly breathable and waterproof for high-energy type stuff.

I've got a Nike windproof thing that's shower proof and keeps the worst out. I keep it washed and proofed with Nikwax Stuff. I use it for almost every winter ride. I've got a Endura PTFE jacket that's used for foul weather and is as breathable as it comes but is still no use if it's warm and wet. i've tried various other goretex/pertex/event/paramo/vapour rise/SuzzTex(r) stuff and it all works to a point but none is perfect for me.

Other people's experiences may differ, everyone rides differently and "runs" at different temps.

It's really simple: if your high work rate produces more sweat than the transfer rate of the membrane, then you'll be soggy inside your jacket.
The best jacket in world is no good if you're sweating buckets for 2hrs non-stop.

Highly breathable, highly water resistant garments excel in these conditions as you don't get as wet from the inside. But if it's pissing down for an hour and you're riding as hard as you can all the time you'll get wet.

Fresh dry kit back in the car or house is the simple answer.

is still no use if it's warm and wet

Depends what you mean by 'no use'.

If I'm out in heavy rain I use a goretex jacket. It doesn't come close to shifting all my sweat and my base layer is sodden, but I'm warm and it's a lot better than being soaked with cold rain from the outside. So although it's definitely not breathable enough to keep me dry, it's better than the alternative.

However this only apples when it's really really raining.

My Madison Apex does a sterling job on cold wet road rides, it's the only jacket I've used this winter for commuting. For warmer wet rides I tend to just get wet instead.

For anyone interested on Paramo stuff I've found jackets / trousers using Pertex Vapour Rise (Rab did some jackets with it) is very similar in use, although seems to be a bit lighter and more comfortable. I use a vapour rise jaacket for commuting and it's brilliant, but it's a bit too warm for a proper ride.

So Molgrips feel free to explain the concentration gradient that will drive sweat out into a typical UK hill rain situation where relative humidity is ~95%?

Mister P is it too warm for circa 6-12degrees ?

Just picked up an altura vapour, found it online for £60, down from £140.

Im reasonably impressed by it. Stretchy material and cut a bit more like a jersey, feels good on. Keeps me comfortable enough in bad rain. IE i am aware im a bit moist inside, but not dripping, boil in the bag feel.

I think the biggest contribution to the comfort though is the fit and the strength. Never liked the feeling of being aware im in a jacket.

I still go the advice is no matter what you're wearing, in heavy rain, you are going to get moist inside or out, it's about getting a setup that's comfortable.

Also, there's no reason to wear a proper waterproof unless it's proper raining, i swear by a gilet most of the time. I've never understood the though process of "im going out on my bike, i therefore always need a proper jacket on", what's the point?

So Molgrips feel free to explain the concentration gradient that will drive sweat out into a typical UK hill rain situation where relative humidity is ~95%?

I said they work, I didn't say they work everywhere. In fact I did say that PU membranes don't work well in the UK which is what you are alluding to I think. However eVent does not require a humidity gradient to work which is why it is ideal for the UK.

eVent just about works for walking/climbing but for cycling it's even worse - it will need washing and proofing after each ride as the inner face fabric will be heavily contaminated with sweat, dirt and other bodily fluids if it was a really scary or demanding ride

When you say 'just about works' you mean you don't feel damp with sweat?

My bar is set lower. I get damp with sweat wearing a tshirt, so I don't expect to be drier wearing a waterproof. When I say 'it works' I mean water vapour leaves via the jacket. You're never going to be sweat free.

As I said before it's a trade-off between being damp with your own warm sweat or with the freezing cold rain.

[url= http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/hooded-rain-jacket/product/HRJ01 ]Rapha Hooded Rain Jacket half price £120 in the sale here[/url]

Spots pursuit are great for waterproof at cheap prices. Dare2b also have some decent, if heavy jackets in their range.
Marmot precips can be had for cheap too.

I said they work, I didn't say they work everywhere. In fact I did say that PU membranes don't work well in the UK which is what you are alluding to I think. However eVent does not require a humidity gradient to work which is why it is ideal for the UK.

eVent suffers from exactly the same problem as other fabrics in that the outer layers gets saturated with water in typical wet, dirty biking conditions and the breath-ability is reduced to chuff all. Regular washing and proofing helps but I'm holding out from some sort of clever nano technology stuff to make truly water repellent fabrics.

I've got an altura attack jacket, they're not super-cheap- you'll pay £75 for one- but they are damn fine. Useless in summer showers, it's a bad weather jacket but I live in it for winter, and autumn and spring rain. Tough, too, it took a big road crash to kill my first one. Breathable and also has gigantic vents. Yes you can get sweaty, but there's a lot of backward thinking on this, people think "breathable" means you don't get sweaty, when it means no such thing, it just means the sweat can get out. You can get sweaty when you're nekkid and nothing's more breathable than nothing.

For warm weather, gillets are best imo, they keep the important bits dry and keep the arms out as radiators.

eVent suffers from exactly the same problem as other fabrics in that the outer layers gets saturated with water in typical wet, dirty biking conditions and the breath-ability is reduced to chuff all

Well that's what DWR is for. I wear an eVent jacket as my every day waterproof, and it does need reproofing fairly regularly. Water usually doesn't bead off after a while but it doens't soak in either. It still breathes.

I'm not saying they are perfect, but they have their place and for me, they are better than the alternatives IN THOSE SITUATIONS.

Northwind in that case better to pack a clean thin top in a carrier bag in your backpack- showers over..swap tops.

Leftfield- how about hikers/walkers jackets that are thinner/not as billowy as the Paramo? i.e Berghaus - any other (budget?) goretex hiker ones?

Leftfield- how about hikers/walkers jackets that are thinner/not as billowy as the Paramo? i.e Berghaus - any other (budget?) goretex hiker ones?

Ok shortlist to try (I had ordered the Madison Apex yesterday but Tredz emailed me to say big delay/so cancelled order):

Event fabric
http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-elite-alpiniste-2-event-jacket-mens-442087

Goretex:
http://www.blacks.co.uk/mens/022003-berghaus-mens-velium-ii-gore-tex-active-jacket-light-blue.html
(Extra 15% off online)

I wear Paramo for everything but the bike (unless it's really cold and wet). For the bike I'm a convert to thicker stretchy double-weave windproof fabrics like Mountain Equipment Exolite 2, which has been replaced by Exolite 275. If it's really wet I have an Altura Pocket Rocket. If I lived further north (rather than the south coast) I'd probably get one of the light Buffalo smocks or jackets like this:

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/active-lite-shirt/

Or this:

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/fell-jacket-2/

My mountain biking stuff gets so filthy that I'd rather avoid technical garments that need washing in soap flakes / techwash and regular reproofing. If you want truly waterproof and reasonably breathable then that's unavoidable.

hora - you'll find that standard walking/mountaineering jackets probably won't have arms that are long enough, will be baggier on the torso and arms and have a shorter drop tail.
That's why cycling specific kit is better on the bike as it is designed for outreached arms and spray from the back wheel. I reckon a decent cycling softshell will fend off the worst of the weather and if truly pissing down then you might need a waterproof but a cheap one will do.

Have you looked at Galibier.cc clothing?
e.g. http://galibier.cc/product/tourmalet/

Hora - that Goretex jacket you linked to isn't Active Shell, it's a 3-layer (less breathable) version. I reckon the eVent one will be a lot more breathable, and no less waterproof.

I use the Velez but only for cold weather mountain biking, when its around freezing with just a Helly Hansen base layer underneath.

Works fantastically and the side zips let you dump heat quickly if need be. Above 5C its getting too warm for me to use it though.

Above 5C or so I use a Rab Vapourise Lite smock. Technically not waterproof but amazingly keeps you comfortable in all but the very worst rain. I will also carry a Montane Featherweight smock to throw over the top if it does get really wet or cold, again not waterproof bu the two combined is as near as dammit

as a Zinedane Zidan heavy sweating at any pace above sloth meander I have found no breathable waterproof to cope with keeping me dry and the rain out, closest has been
OMM Kamleika which is pretty good but a bit fragile for MTB

after that accept a different approach a Scott Gore Active Windstopper good for most days bought from Start cycles

or a
pertex top that is windproof and breathable

with manmade synthetic baselayer/thin fleece or merino wool mid

then

gilet ideally windstopper or pertex depending on how cold or wet

The Vapour rise idea is great but having ridden in the day in Buffalo I prefer layers.

Good luck

edit also have for really terrible days or for trail centres waiting and chatting rides a Raceface jacket huge pit zips and really robust but without the pit zips not breatable, pit zips are good

Have you looked at Galibier.cc clothing?
e.g. http://galibier.cc/product/tourmalet/

Wow that looks a bargain and stylish too for roadbiking. I'm going to order one of those purely for the roadbike.

I clicked through to reviews on their site and also hit this:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/jackets/polaris-hexon-waterproof

I wore the Karrimor jacket on Wed for the first time on the bike. Its long enough at the back for on the bike, bunches up a little at the front but not enough to bother me. I never felt overly sweaty but only had a long sleeve base layer on. The pockets are nice and big and allowed plenty of air in. Haven't tested its crash proofness but it feels substantial. I got it for less than £70 and very pleased with it. I'd probably only use it on the bike if I was heading into the hills and the forecast wasn't good. For most other times the thin Karrimor softshell I got for £30 keeps me warm and dry without getting hot.

I have the Pace 3x3 Event jacket and it seems pretty good, but I don't think it would be robust in a fall.

I also have an endura venturi Event jacket and that is thicker than the Pace and is more robust (have fallen in it a few times and only got one little hole in the elbow now) and I have worn it on the road when working hard climbing and in heavy rain, and was quite happy with it.

I wash the jackets regularly in the liquid soap flakes stuff you can get from ebay for £5-£7 a bottle.

Trouble with active shell and lightweight event is it is not robust for a fall.

Fall/damage doesn't bother me if you can buy swatches and glue/fix it back up. No one offroad looks at your fashion in bad weather!

The reviews of the Galibier jacket make a point of stressing breathability. However it's advertised at 4k MVP and the Endura Venturi at 28k MVP.

Quite a discrepancy there...?

Must be a typo on someones page? I'm very hesitant about spending big money on Endura after having two pairs of shorts fail on me in the usual places.

For anyone interested on Paramo stuff I've found jackets / trousers using Pertex Vapour Rise (Rab did some jackets with it) is very similar in use, although seems to be a bit lighter and more comfortable. I use a vapour rise jaacket for commuting and it's brilliant, but it's a bit too warm for a proper ride.

Almost right. 'Vapour Rise' is a range of garments by Rab. They use a variety of linings, and use Pertex Equilibrium woven outers. They are very breathable.

Have a look at Gore Golf jackets to avoid the cycle tax.

I have a Epic cotton jacket, it's good but water comes in after about 30mins of heavy rain

I did- the golf ones are also spendy. The Nike one is simply gorgeous. Funnily enough I had some Nike winter cycling gloves years ago- the best I've ever had and the footballing adidas ones that I found a few weeks ago in the cupboard are far better than alot of cycling-specific ones..

As a result of this thread, and in the interests of research, I dug a very old Goretex cycle jacket out of a pile at the back of the wardrobe. It's a lovely, dry, cold day but the jacket is now drenched inside. I'd forgotten just how far modern fabrics and membranes have come on.

Fall/damage doesn't bother me if you can buy swatches and glue/fix it back up

not much point buying a jacket with all the techy taped seams and the like them.

I had an old race face jacket that wasn't a techy breatable jacket, more just a nice nylon type of thing, with reinforcement on the elbows, etc, and had pit zips.

I wore it when I first started mtbing so it was out for 3 to 4 hour rides a day in the heavy rain and mud (I was very enthusiastic when I started), with a single long-armed HH lifa underneath.

It did me OK - probably because of the pit zips and the fact that everything was synthetic.

I also used to use some Ronhill jackets, which are good value.

not much point buying a jacket with all the techy taped seams and the like them.

Disagree. A nice breathable waterproof jacket is still almost entirely as nice and breathable with a bit of gaffer tape on the elbow.

the jacket is now drenched inside

PU membranes like Goretex rely on water condensing on the inside of the jacket, so it'll always feel wet - even modern ones do. The question is can the membrane shift that condensation fast enough to allow your base layer to wick the sweat from your body fast enough to keep you dry.

TNF do a Summit Series jacket in Pertex Equilibrium for £50. It's not cycling cut but it is slim, and I do most of my cycling on or off road wearing Summit series stuff (there used to be a factory shop near my in-laws). Cut is fine for cycling.

So we're back to Pertex Equilibrium again a lá Rab Vapour Rise, Montane Dyno, TNF Iodin, Lowe Alpine Northern Lights etc. etc.

dyno is a fantastic cold weather jacket- piss poor for rain protection though. So tell me Pertex(?) is the one to avoid? Cos its fantastic but its terrible in even light rain- the arms get wet way before the body. The body is fantastic though with blocking wind. For anything 2ish degrees upto 12degrees its my go to dry/damp jacket for riding. Rainy though? No.

There are many Pertex fabrics.

This should help
http://www.pertex.com/products/

PU membranes like Goretex rely on water condensing on the inside of the jacket, so it'll always feel wet - even modern ones do

My old Gore AlpX does this. Staying comfortable (not dry) is as much about the layering under jackets like these as the jacket itself (e.g. a decent merino base and a suitable jersey.)

Same goes for road. I usually don't bother with a waterproof. It's more about staying warm and comfortable when wet than keeping dry. Especially if it's just for a couple of hours and you're working quite hard.

Edit... Hardest thing I reckon for clothing to cope is the typical stop start nature of mtb group rides and all the hanging about that tends to take place between bursts of activity. Best to crack on!

Sprayway gore tex acid yellow coloured-jackets in tkmaxx for £49 avoid or at that price worth a punt? Can't find any info etc on them online though in this colour so assume its 2-layer.

PSA for Polaris Graphite on SportPursuit. £150 down to £80. Gets 5* review on bikeradar.

http://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/polaris-jan15

If you're not a member you *can* [url= http://www.sportpursuit.com/join/james_hatfield_11251 ]use my invite[/url] but don't feel obliged - this kight be against STW rules?

Event fabric... Montane Direct Ascent Event jacket baby!

Blacks have them reduced to 120 + there's a 10% off code hanging around on google so that's £108 for a £225 jacket. Event fabric - why the 'hate'(?)

Mud really only splatters not complete covering so no need after every ride. I'd only use it a couple of times a month as I own a Montane Dyno as well

[quote=molgrips ]

the jacket is now drenched inside

I bought the Event Montane and now sorting my front mudguard (hip pack sorts the rear)

You might find the Direct Ascent's cut a bit long for biking use. That Berghaus Velum you linked to earlier, which is made from Gore-Tex Active - decent fabric - would maybe be better option if the Montane jacket's cut doesn't work for you.

Then again fit is pretty individual, but it's definitely aimed at walkers rather than climbers and longer than average. Climbing jackets tend to be cut shorter to work with a harness, so may work better on a bike.

I checked that at go outdoors last night 🙂 Thankfully I'm built like a Orangutan trunk v legs. Its slightly longer on the rear too which is a bonus.