[Closed] Warranty or MTFU? Carbon content...

Do you still have the bearings to show to the shop where you bought the bike?

TroutWrestler - Member

Do you still have the bearings to show to the shop where you bought the bike?

Yes.

are they literally press fit or shoudl there be soem sort of loctite type stuff holding them in? If so, was it there?

wwaswas - Member

are they literally press fit or shoudl there be soem sort of loctite type stuff holding them in? If so, was it there?

Literally press fit, like a headset but the cups are only plastic.

Oh.

If the resistance in the bearing is greater than the friction between the outer race and the frame, then the bearing will turn in the frame - i.e. if the bearing was a lose-ish fit to start with, the bearing may only need to be "quite rough", not "totally seized" in order to spin.

Could be down to the tolerance stack-up between the bearing OD and shell ID, but I think you'll struggle to prove that now as the wear will mean the bearing fit will NOW be sloppy, regardless of what it was to start with.

It still astonishes me that press-fit plastic is considered a suitable way to attach a bottom bracket bearing.

Ouch... *makes mental note about pressfit bottom brackets*

I'm with Bristolbiker... probably impossible to prove either way.

Do you have legs like Chris Hoy?

bencooper - Member

It still astonishes me that press-fit plastic is considered a suitable way to attach a bottom bracket bearing.

I just can't see how forcing bearings into a carbon frame in an area that sees so much use and so much abuse is workable.

If you're out of the saddle alot then surely there'll be too much flex through the bb for this to be sensible? Then throw in all the grit and dirt.

Lapierre / Hotlines have said the bottom bracket must have seized

Bit catch 22 isn't it? My old Zesty BB would seize if you sneezed near it.

Still their fault anyway arguably!

I'd push the warranty side a bit harder if the bearings are fine. Take the frame and bottom bracket to the shop where you bought it.

If you're out of the saddle alot then surely there'll be too much flex through the bb for this to be sensible? Then throw in all the grit and dirt.

I've got a feeling it's like integrated headsets - a system that's been introduced supposedly because it's better, but really it's just because it's cheaper. The radial loads on a bottom bracket are enormous.

Have spoke to Hotlines again and they said they are happy to look at the bottom bracket but I might have more luck if I spoke to Lapierre themselves.

I still have the BB and it has worn carbon on the cups as proof that it is the original and they can always take it apart to make sure I haven't regreased it or anything.

Interestingly the hotlines guy conceeded that it wasn't my fault. He suggested initially that I need to keep checking the bottom bracket to make sure its not slipping but agreed that with carbon once its slipped the shell is ****ed anyway.

Press fit BBs are not very good are they . Trek actually supply an oversize bearing for the Madone BB so that if this happens the frame is still useable . Wouldn't that work for your bike ?

I love this...

"but I might have more luck if I spoke to Lapierre themselves"

Tell you what, why not just do all the legwork yourself. I know you may actually get further going direct, but the point is, you shouldn't have to - that's why you buy from an official dealer, and buy new....

Trek actually supply an oversize bearing for the Madone BB so that if this happens the frame is still useable

You're kidding. I may be a Luddite (though I doubt it) but for 99% of people the 68mm square-taper bottom bracket was perfect. Lasted for a long time, easily replaceable, totally compatible across brands (apart from the very rare Stronglight). This whole press fit / external bearing / splined BB mess might be good for manufacturers, it's certainly not good for customers (or us bike shops who have to fix the stuff).

Sorry, cant stop. Just off to check the bb on my zesty!!!

ridethelakes - Member

Interestingly the hotlines guy conceeded that it wasn't my fault.

Case closed, then. They need to warranty it.

[i]Case closed, then[/i]

that's what I thought and then I thought 'just 'cos it's not the OP's fault doesn't mean it's automatically Hotlines?'

If the distributor agree it's a warranty issue, then they should be looking after him, not pawning him off on Lapierre.

I agree I'm just saying that 'fault' hasn't really been proven just 'It's one of those things' that these BB's damage frames on occasion.

Could equally be the BB design at fault as the frame?

FFS push the warranty

I still have the BB and it has worn carbon on the cups as proof that it is the original

This is good, but whatever you do be very careful about sending it to them because, from experience, such things can get 'lost' by the manufuacturer, and *poof* your proof dissapears into thin air. Take loads of photos of it, send these to hotlines (or if they want it sent to la-froggie get an email telling you to do this) to show them what they are getting and get them to acknowledge the photos then send it registered courier so they cant easily deny what they got and that they did got it.

Hotlines supplied the BB (through the dealer I presume) so they are still in the "Hot" seat

I agree I'm just saying that 'fault' hasn't really been proven just 'It's one of those things' that these BB's damage frames on occasion.

Could equally be the BB design at fault as the frame?

True but they designed a frame to use this BB, if OP didnt do anything wrong then luckily for him consumers generally get the benefit of doubt in these situations - manufacturer needs to show his design/manufacture [s]wasnt defficient[/s][u]was fit for purpose[/u]. Its not like a negligence claim where you have to positively 'show' the other party is at fault.

Looks to me like Hotlines are deffo in hot water on this one.

ut for 99% of people the 68mm square-taper bottom bracket was perfect

couldn't agree more, and I love my new shiny bike bits.

Same problem with a Trek Top Fuel 9.8 after one year of riding. Went back to LBS, they sent it off to Trek and warranty will be honoured in full, new frame on the way.

Big thanks to all at Swinnerton Cycles in Stoke for their continuing support.

I am sure it can be fixed somehow instead of replacing the whole frame.

But I agree it is a warranty claim. Have they not had a lot of problems with press-fit BBs?

I had a similar issue with the bottom bracket in my carbon Trek hardtail where they were loose and you could easily put the press fit cups in and out by hand.

Luckily I noticed not longer after buying the bike and Trek were great, local bike shop sent it back for them to have a look at and got a replacement frame a week or so later.

Jesus that is one to note... have press fit in a carbon frame too...

mind to ride a bike with a seized bb surely you'd notice this well in advance before that kind of damage would be done?? For the rare occasions this might happened?? imo lapierre should just do a warranty replacement!!

mind to ride a bike with a seized bb surely you'd notice this well in advance before that kind of damage would be done??

I wouldn't count on it - you put a lot of torque through a bottom bracket. Fitting or removing one (a threaded one) requires about 1/10th the force that normally goes into the crank on each pedal rotation. So if the bearings bind up and you keep pedaling, it could well pop loose a press fit.

Not to mention all the sideways loading caused by that force shifting from left to right and back again every rotation. Press fits are fine for things that sit there and spin around quickly - they're not suitable for things that turn relatively slowly with a massive sideways force.

Why are you talking to Hotlines at all (I assume you didn't buy direct). This is surely a straightforward fit for purpose / sale of goods issue and your dealer's concern. How hotlines sort him out is not really your concern just as its not your concern how lapierre deal with hotlines.

bencooper - Member

they're not suitable for things that turn relatively slowly with a massive sideways force.

Like headsets? 🙂

So a seized BB will offer more resistance than the frame it's pressed into?
I smell bullshit.

Ben surely if you were rotating the cups in the frame you would notice that you were not on bearings because it was harder- ie if the bearings seized and were locked it would obviously require more force to turn the cups in the frame. I assume if both are turning at the same time [ bearings not siezed but cup still moving] it is less obvious hence the OP's issue.

I do agree it seems like a fix to a non existent problem and has not encouraged me to try them.

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That's an XTR BB cup taken out of my Ti hardtail frame. It was spinning freely in the frame as I rotated the cranks.

Thankfully, the frame is fine. I guess the softer aluminium of the BB cup gave way before the harder Ti of the frame.

I remember when I had a Zesty, being advised by a dealer to just keep pedalling when the BB seized and it'd free up again.

And it did.

Yeah on my second BB on my 09 Zesty, it almost seizes up after a cleaning session but a bit of pedalling frees it up again. Mine's an alu model though else I'd be panicking about now (although I'm still going to check this evening...)

druidh

exactly the same thing when i replaced my bb last night- deore bb in an aluminim frame

was quite surprised as there wasnt any noise or gritty feeling when pedaling