Jesus. I can't believe this is still running.
I did take a picture of the bike when i got it out of the box but annoyingly it was the wrong side so can’t confirm
You're totally overthinking this. Just growasett, go back to the shop and request a refund or repair. Its quite simple.
Is it one of those cheap jack mass produced ebikes?
no but may as well have been.
Just growasett, go back to the shop and request a refund or repair. Its quite simple.
Steady on. I already did this as soon as i recieved the email. i simply started this thread because i was unsure where i stand.
They took a week to respond to my original complaint so i'm not holding out much hope of a speedy resolution.
Jesus. I can’t believe this is still running.
you don't HAVE to read it if it upsets you 😉
They may well have thrown in a ticked PDI sheet but that doesn't mean it's actually been PDI correctly or at all. The issues sound like a bike that hasn't been checked properly, or has "factory" torque values, which are quite often too low.
As mentioned already, on a Shimano HL2 chainset the main central bolt is just a plastic pre-load bolt. The pinch bolts are what actually hold the arm on the axle. If the arm is correctly installed you could in theory run those cranks with no pre-load bolt at all. I've never had a correctly installed Shimano HL2 crank fall off.
If it's a rear wheel motor ebike the wheelnuts will have a high torque value and some sort of non-turn hooked washers to prevent the axle from trying to counter-rotate to the hub and slip in the frame (like hub gears do). If the wheelnuts aren't tight enough, or the non turn washers are a poor fit the axle could potentially turn in the dropouts. It might only be a couple of millimetres rotation each way, but over time the back and forth forces from accelerating and braking will loosen the wheel nuts.
Based on your confirmation of original post, consumer rights act.
As I posted above it's not a discussion, it's you telling the retailer you're exercising your legal right.
Either a replacement or a full refund; you may be better going for refund and then patronising your LBS.
Either a replacement or a full refund; you may be better going for refund and then patronising your LBS.
I think you are right.
Steady on. I already did this as soon as i recieved the email. i simply started this thread because i was unsure where i stand
Soz pat. I phrased it hyperbolously in a rubbish attempt to emphasise that I totally think they're not being fair and i think you have a very good case for them to just sort it TF out. It came across critical of you ( actually it didn't just come across like that it was written like that, by me, my bad 😉)
Go gettem.
If it’s a rear wheel motor ebike the wheelnuts will have a high torque value and some sort of non-turn hooked washers to prevent the axle from trying to counter-rotate to the hub and slip in the frame (like hub gears do). If the wheelnuts aren’t tight enough, or the non turn washers are a poor fit the axle could potentially turn in the dropouts. It might only be a couple of millimetres rotation each way, but over time the back and forth forces from accelerating and braking will loosen the wheel nuts.
Yea when i went to change the tube, to say they were hand tight would be being generous. At this point i'd ridden the bike about 8 miles. fortunate to get a puncture perhaps.
found a section from the manual in case anyone was still doubting the wheel nuts 🙂 🙂
was £2.5k so not top of the range e-bike by any means but not exactly a BSO.
PS Not named the bike specifically only because i think its not the bikes fault in this case.
my bad 😉
No drama.
Although i think this has been my longest running thread to date, so quite pleased about that 🙂 🙂
They're trying it on with you imo. I have a fair idea how mail order PDI processes should work.
Every mail order retailer should have a check list from the PDI - records frame number, mechanic, date and items checked. Ask to see that if you don't already have a copy of it with the bike delivery. Check the items that caused problems. If they were ticked as done properly then I'd reject it under CRA - the whole PDI is questionable if a HT2 crank fell off on the 3rd ride and the wheel was loose. HT2 cranks just don't fall off or rotate on the splines like that when fitted properly, not even if your first two rides were 300k audaxes.
RTFM.
For Installation to the Bicycle, and Maintenance: HOLLOWTECH II type
• If the inner cover is not installed correctly, the axle may rust and become damaged, and the bicycle may fall over and serious injury may occur as a result.
• The two left crank arm mounting bolts should be tightened in stages rather than fully tightened at once. Use a torque wrench to check that the final tightening torques are within the range of 12 - 14 N·m. Furthermore, after riding approximately 100km (60 miles), use a torque wrench to re-check the tightening torques. It is also important to periodically check the tightening torques. If the tightening torques are too weak or if the mounting bolts are not tightened alternately in stages, the left crank arm may come off and the bicycle may fall over, and serious injury may occur as a result.
Had the exact same issue with an inbred I bought from On-One about 10 years ago. Had deore cranks and the preload bolt fell out one ride. This was after having it for about a month.
Dropped them an email and they sent me £10 to order one as they didn't have any in stock. Because the pinch bolts were tightened correctly the crank arm didn't come loose.
^ yes you should read the manual, it's still very possible that this is a case of insufficient PDI. Most bikes are sold with a recommendation for a check up after a period or amount of riding that would be more than 60 miles.
(I should have been more diplomatic in post above and not said 'trying it on' as that implies intent, most likely that the offer seems a fair compromise based on what customer care staff know of the details. It wouldn't take much to establish whether the PDI was credible or not and that could change the offer made or the OPs position.)
RTFM.
Well, yes, you'd hope whoever was assembling the bike would have done this. The fact that they are referring to something as a 'lock nut' when it is made out of soft plastic and has zero 'locking' responsibilities suggests they haven't bothered.
The two left crank arm mounting bolts should be tightened in stages rather than fully tightened at once. Use a torque wrench to check that the final tightening torques are within the range of 12 – 14 N·m.
This is the bit you'd expect to have been done and checked before the OP received his new bike.
Furthermore, after riding approximately 100km (60 miles), use a torque wrench to re-check the tightening torques. It is also important to periodically check the tightening torques.
This is the bit he should be doing.
Perhaps the 'FM' should include a line about not trusting any retailer to do the job they have promised to do prior to handing the bike over.
Of course it's theoretically possible that pinch bolts might slacken off in the tiny timeframe between correct installation and a few kms of riding, but there is a far more likely explanation (and the bullshit response from the retailer supports this).
Of course it’s theoretically possible that pinch bolts might slacken off in the tiny timeframe between correct installation and a few kms of riding, but there is a far more likely explanation (and the bullshit response from the retailer supports this).
Well, if the 'RTFM' section up there is correct, it says the bolts need checking after 100km. Since OP hasn't ridden 100km, it's failed. It's either, therefore, a failure of the part so a Shimano warranty issue or (far more likely IMO) a failure of their PDI.
The good news is, in either case you can tell the retailer to just sort it out. And no, you shouldn't be paying.
I'd probably sprinkle on a bit of faux anger at being supplied a "clearly unsafe bike" with multiple problems identified. It's absolutely not reasonable to expect most commuter-style bike buyers to check and re-torque all the bolts on their brand new bike.
The details of how/why it fell apart are irrelevant. A new bike fell apart after 3 rides, it's defective, not fit for purpose, as posted above the Consumer Rights Act means you can return it. You don't have to prove it's their fault, they have prove it isn't.
Yes and no. Bikes vibrate when you ride them, and you don’t need an engineering degree to work out what vibrations do to bolts.
I'd expect at least a year before a lightly used and correctly assembled bike would need anything more than a clean.
Hell, my race bikes have gone almost that long without having anything other than consumables replaced. (Yes, i have an engineering degree. And a string of bike mechanicing related qualifications.)
Most of the provisos in manufacturers instructions (check after 4 weeks/100 km etc) are arse covering exercises. If they are seated/greased/adjusted/fitted correctly in the first place, they are an irrelevance. Unfortunately, most people who assemble bikes aren't interested in doing it right, just quickly.
As this has been bumped after the best part of a week, @pat12 did you get sorted, or are the shop still not playing ball?
Can you name the shop so we know who to avoid? 😁
They have come back to me and said they need to go to the manufauturer for a warranty claim but its not guaranteed. "we will do what we can to support our customers."
I've responded last week to say i'm not really interested in what the manufauturer says, i'm returning the bike to them for a refund under the sale of goods act as its neither fit for purpose, free from minor defects or safe.
Not heard anything back yet 🙁
Yeah, you didn't buy it/have a contract with the manufacturers, (and a contract doesn't have to be written, payment accepted for goods or a service is a contract) so you want your resolution from the shop, and it's up to them to get THEIR refund from the manufacturer.
Ultimately you'll be able to do a small claim, which IIRC is called Money Claim Online these days.
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
I’ve responded last week to say i’m not really interested in what the manufauturer says, i’m returning the bike to them for a refund under the sale of goods act as its neither fit for purpose, free from minor defects or safe.
Double check the exact procedure here but broadly:
Send the correct notice (eg the SoGA no longer applies so you're exercising your rights under the CRA) - I imagine you'll find a template letter online
Meet your obligations - take it to the point of sale or make available for collection (that will mean it needs to be suitable for collection so boxed etc).
Give them a date for drop off or from which it will be available to collect.
Make it clear you'll be claiming a refund by the method of payment of they haven't issued a refund by x date regardless of if its been collected or not (give a reasonable time frame, say 5 days after you made it available).
Send your letter by email and recorded delivery.
