[Closed] Waiting at the top of the trail

Quick ask never hurts, they might just be leaving a gap for a slower, less experienced or nervous rider. I'll tell people if I'm leaving a gap for that reason.

Only had this happen once, at the start of Summer Lightning.
As the only signed trail on Leith Hill, I guess it could be a little bit fairground but it was a group of 6 or so and they didn't look to be in a rush to set off. I was solo.
Rode in to the sound of 'oi, we were waiting'
No idea what they were waiting for as I didn't see anyone after that.

Fair point on gaps for slower riders but they only need 20 seconds or so with the length of trails around here.

Surely, if everyone did that, there'd be queues forming at certain sections?. Some people take it all a bit too seriously, That's their problem as far as I'm concerned. You want to crack on, they think they're more 'enduro' than the last people who went. Unless, of course, it's their private land, in which case I guess you abide by their rules. Otherwise they have no right to expect you to follow their decisions.
As far as I'm concerned, if they want a clear trail for their precious little run, then they'll have to wait until one appears, but not at the detriment of anyone else.

Didn't realise this was a thing. I just assume they're having a breather or waiting for a mate to arrive and roll straight past. 🙂

As far as I'm concerned, if they want a clear trail for their precious little run, then they'll have to wait until one appears, but not at the detriment of anyone else

Quick ask never hurts, they might just be leaving a gap for a slower, less experienced or nervous rider. I'll tell people if I'm leaving a gap for that reason.

Didn't realise this was a thing. I just assume they're having a breather or waiting for a mate to arrive and roll straight past.

That was what I thought until someone had a go at me!

Personally, I don't mind following slower riders,

If I'm leaving a gap for a slower rider who needs space for confidence and I tell you that would you wait? Nothing to do with being enduro just not being a dick.

No I wouldn't wait. I wouldn't ride up their arse, but I wouldn't wait. Trails are for sharing.

Sorry, but it's not a thing. If someone has an issue with you doing one continuous ride then that's their problem not yours.

Some slower riders get really stressed at the thought of holding others up and end up not enjoying the ride, hence leaving the gap and asking people to chill out and respect that.

This. If you're riding right behind my Mrs, it really spoils her ride as she's stressed she's holding someone up and it affects her riding. She'll let you past if she can but that's not always possible.

So many groups congregate at the top of sections on trail centres, it'd be daft to ask each one if they are waiting for a reason or not.

I'm often on a tight schedule so I'm happy to nip in front usually.

Anyway, I can't remember the last time I got caught up at a trail centre - apart from by my own mates.

[/Awesome]

Of course nobody could wait and you could just go buzz the back wheel of a slower less confident rider.
We humans are great at communicating, we have language. When I roll up to a group waiting at the start of a trail, I just ask "mind if I go through please lads?"
They'll say either "you'll get help up mate" or "yeah, crack on buddy"
Jeez. It's not difficult.

Anyway, I can't remember the last time I got caught up at a trail centre - apart from by my own mates.

It's been years since I have ridden a trail centre and by the sounds of it I'm not in a hurry to go back.
Are the tyre buzzers the same people who sit on your bumper at 80 mph on the motorway even when the middle lane isn't free to pull in to?

Some total bells hammered past me at swinley yesterday, skidding round berms and easily catching the kids I was giving space for :/

I rarely visit trail centres but I certainly wouldn't be asking some folk hanging around if I had their permission to ride. Having said that, If I caught up with a slower rider, I'd just slow down too. You don't have to be so close that you are pressurising them and you don't need to be 20 seconds behind either.

I rarely visit trail centres but I certainly wouldn't be asking some folk hanging around if I had their permission to ride.

If it was me I would ask you to wait, nothing to do with permission just being nice to one another...

And I would think that you are a self important ignorant arse piece and say no if I even acknowledged you.

Asking strangers to interrupt their ride to please you is not nice and is certainly not polite.

Good for you, deciding to ride up somebody's arse despite having it pointed out to you that the people who know how fast the ride think the gap isn't big enough then we all have to wait for you then set off. It's not a race.

I can't imagine how tedious a ride around Cannock would be If I had to stop and ask people if they were waiting at the start of sections.

Just ride but be polite to those that you catch up to on the trail surely?

Are you hard of thinking? I have these things called good manners which you appear to be missing.

No I wouldn't wait. I wouldn't ride up their arse, but I wouldn't wait. Trails are for sharing.

If I caught up with a slower rider, I'd just slow down too. You don't have to be so close that you are pressurising them and you don't need to be 20 seconds behind either.

No idea this was a thing either. I just like to ride my bike down hills. Good job I don't use these trail centre things much, too much etiquette and egos involved by the sound of things

...just being nice to one another...

Some people don't get this sort of thing.

Is it true they are installing a ticketed queuing system at the top of Spooky Woods?

mikewsmith - Member
It's not a race.

I don't obey unwritten rules that other people have made up for their convenience and to pressurise me. I certainly don't waste time feeling guilty about breaking them.

If this rule was important it would be written down and clearly visible.

No idea this was a thing either

Me neither 😕 Is mountain biking going the same way as road riding with all these stupid unwritten rules 😆

If I'm out with a group of mates I'll often wait a few secs at the top of a trail if I know the person infront is a bit slower but if another rider came along and carried on past me it wouldn't bother me one bit.

Has anyone blamed Strava yet?

It's strava's fault.

Is it true they are installing a ticketed queuing system at the top of Spooky Woods?

I was at GT last Sunday and queued for what seemed like ages at the car park ticket machine at 0930.....I was expecting the worst however on setting off, the trails were busy but good behaviour, even the guy with the dog...., and I peeled off onto the black after Buzzards Nest. Thereafter I only saw 2 other bikes the whole way round the black...

Shared sections were busy lower down mind...

Is this the same as the weekend jump track etiquette at swinley where you have to weave through all da yoot chillin on their jump bikes on the run in at the top to actually ride the thing?

If it looks clear I'll go, if I catch someone up I'll ease off and pass politely when it's safe, if I get caught I'll move over. It's just playing on bikes after all.

As with most things, these sorts of arguments can be avoided by following the simple rules - don't be an arsehole and say hi to your fellow rider and follow that with some more words.

I have stopped at the top of downhill sections to 'gap' slower riders, it's an inevitable part of trail centre life - 4-6 riders on hire bikes nervously threading between the rocks, don't need me behind them braking and making them more nervous.

Occasionally, whilst waiting some more guys have come along, some stop, some ask to go through, some we say "slower riders ahead" or whatnot, if they want to go ahead, I just let them, some people don't like to stop when they ride.

There was one guy though, oh he was a special case - big group of us waiting for a dozen or so new riders on hire bikes to get going, he looked us up and down and said "I think I'd better go first" I've never chased someone so hard in all my life - he pulled over to let us past ha ha.

If people are waiting at the top of a particular section and I want to continue on I do so, be it a trail centre or not. I'll usually at least acknowledge the rider(s) by saying a hello or something. If they mention they are waiting around for other riders in front (say a family or kids) then i'll probably wait with them a while.

If i'm waiting and people pass me then that's fine too.

I've never had an issue with anyone when out and find most folk are polite and chatty if you are too.

Some slower riders get really stressed at the thought of holding others up and end up not enjoying the ride, hence leaving the gap and asking people to chill out and respect that.

I have stopped at the top of downhill sections to 'gap' slower riders, it's an inevitable part of trail centre life - 4-6 riders on hire bikes nervously threading between the rocks, don't need me behind them braking and making them more nervous.

Just using this as an example, do people not just find that they pretty much always catch up that person/group they gave space to anyway, but just a bit further down the trail than they would have done if they hadn't sat at the top for 2 minutes, hence making it a bit of a pointless gesture?.

Occasionally, but not often, it's hard to say this without sounding slightly arrogant - but it's about, trying at least, to judge your pace to theirs, Hire Bike, Hire Helmets and non cycle-specific clothing matched with a look of fear and terror - I'd give them the full 5 mins.

I'd have thought.

But surely just give them fifteen feet space,

On the flip side leave a gap by all means, but if that's what you're doing be sure to make it obvious, be sat on bike, pedals ready, etc, all set to go, not stood to the side of the trail having a natter - which there seems to be a lot of at trail centres and other busy trails.

TBH 15feet is probably a minimum for people you know ride at a similar pace to you, mixed ability group (or strangers) on unknown trails you need lot's more space. If the rider ahead stalls chances are you will too and you get the ripple effect behind you as everyone else dabs. 15' may just be enough for a dab/recovery, but if the person ahead has to jump off and push up a techy/steep section unless they jump out of your way chances are slim to none of you getting over the obstacle. I've had it before where I've caught up the rider in front and backed way off to give them space and me a better run at stuff. The riders behind have come right up behind me, leaving no gap, so if I fluff my line they're knackered. Their choice but they better not tut if I screw up 🙂

15feet is not a lot of space at all and if you catch up

TBH, I'm playing devil's advocate, because like most people, I'd stop, chat with people and make an assessment whether to ride straight thru or wait for them to set off first.

Weirdest thread ever. I never stop on a ride and assumed the hanging around at the trail head was for having a breather/chat ect. If your waiting for a gap thats your choice but don't expect others to join your imaginary queue. If I catch someone, I hang back pass if its safe, but more normally unless the rider in front pulls over I wait untill the end of the section. I've been riding trail centre's since the beginning and never had a problem.
I'll mention it, if you ride at trail centre's unless your a riding god sooner or later people will come up behind you. No one's being rude it's part of the sport and something you have to get used to, if you can't perhaps trail centres aren't the best place for you to enjoy your ride.

I'll mention it, if you ride at trail centre's unless your a riding god sooner or later people will come up behind you. No one's being rude it's part of the sport and something you have to get used to, if you can't perhaps trail centres aren't the best place for you to enjoy your ride.

LOL I am a riding god!

If somebody points out that you are waiting for a good reason and the somebody jumps in then I think that trail centres might not be for them, it's not going to be the best place to enjoy your ride.

Pretty much agree with everything in taxi25's post.

I ride Cannock at least every other week and never have a problem with waiting, slower or faster rides.

I'm usually passed by and pass a similar amount of riders and as long as everybody is curteous then there shouldn't be any problems.

If your in a big group of mixed abilities it makes sense to leave gaps. IME anyone who nips in between said gaps is normally rubbish and gets caught pretty quickly then you can have fun shouting at and buzzing them 😆 Tapping their rear mech is quite fun if you can manage it.

I'd just always assumed they were having a rest / chat / generally faffing. Can't say I ever remember being subsequently caught up by any of the trail loiterers 🙂

When kids were younger, a family trail centre visit would entail a fast solo lap followed by babystitting handover so both me an mrs could get a good blast around family duties. Hanging around queuing for trails to clear wasn't an option time wise. Sorry

Passing on the trails is rarely a problem anyway. I think the only tyres we buzz are where somebody you've just caught on a climb insists on deliberately diving into the next section assuming my kids are going to be slow.....

taxi25 - Member
but don't expect others to join your imaginary queue

That's pretty much it for me. In game design, players who invent imaginary rules that aren't encoded in the system, and try to enforce them, are called "scrubs".

Waiting won't make much of a difference in a busy place with long descents. When someone gets on my tyre, I'll find a spot to pull over. When it's the other way round, I'll try not to be right on their back stressing them out, and if the difference between us is big enough sometimes shout excuse me or find a sniper line to pass.

If you ride with a big, consistent group over time you'll order yourself by speed for descents, but with random people in public there's no set of rules that's going to make that possible.

Weirdest thread ever.

Amen to that.

I have nothing to add, except. Errr.... WT-actual-F?

Seriously, it's just riding bikes. There are no rules. Just try to be a normal happy human to your fellow humans. And accept that we are all occasionally capable of making twuntish misjudgements occasionally.

I'm not stopping at the head of a trail to join some imaginary queuing system. If you want to do the ride-stop-chat-ride-stop-chat thing, that's great for you. I don't. It's about enjoying the flow of a trail - and for me that means ride-up-as-fast-as-possible-then-ride-down-as-fast-as-possible. Repeat until smiling.

Queuing?
No, we're just waiting for the solo rider that thinks they are fast to pack hunt down the trail and humiliate 😉

I didn't realise this was a thing either.

To be honest, I try and hit my local trail centre (Bedgebury) at 7 in the morning, or later in the evening, once all of the trail traffic has died down. It's the only way you can reasonably expect to ride at your own pace all the way round.

This is not a thing.

If you want to create a magical gap to ride in, you have to wait until everyone else has got out of the way. You want something, you wait - I'm not.

+1 to the last few posts.

I won't sprint into a trail in front of someone, but I'm not gonna ask everyone loitering about within 100 yards if I may go before them. Weird.

It's a bit of a minefield sometimes. I normally ride solo, so on average I'll be faster than a group of three or four say, they may have left a gap to a slower rider, but it's still my judgement whether to 'jump the queue', otherwise we all end up going with the lowest common denominator. It can also be annoying if you've left a good gap to a slower rider so as not to hassle them and they then dive into the next bit of singletrack, the Enduroflouro guys you nipped in front of are now on your wheel thinking you're the slow one asking themselves why you jumped the queue if you're not even that quick.
I have had the derogatory glance and comment, ("bastard! We're going to be held up now!") when riding past a group hanging round at the top of a trail, me on my old short travel fs, no armour and roadie top, them on big rigs dripping in Troy Lee PJs. Nailed it and never saw them again (and they did ride straight in after me as if trying to prove a point).
Anyway, after that boasting 😳 I'm off to GT now.

This is all new to me as well. You guys that worry about all this sort of thing must be riding at some goddamn busy trail centres. Isn't is usually obvious if the guys at the top are waiting to go or just chilling out? Are they on their bikes starring down the trail or sat a few feet away chatting and sucking on camelbacks? Do we not apply common sense anymore?

Are they on their bikes starring down the trail or sat a few feet away chatting and sucking on camelbacks?

TBH only time I've had any congestion issues at a trail centre was during keilder 100. Some quick climbers don't half suck at descending 😉 and the one time I actually tried to "defend my position" while climbing up to the next section of singletrack a speedy guy still nipped in before me....

and promptly left me for dead on the descent too 🙂

Weirdest thread ever

each to their own, there are no regulations on the trail. So much worry over something that rarely happens

I'm never usually in much of a hurry, but I do like a clear trail ahead of me. I can think of several times I've stopped before a section to dig some sweets or cake out and then been joined by a group who are pausing, but you never know for how long. Cue me stuffing all the food in my hand into my mouth, strapping my bag on and setting off in an unseemly haste* with the odd jelly baby trying to escape from my lips 😉

* There's ALWAYS time to say hello though, just remember to do it before you've rendered yourself dumb with cake

If I were waiting for a gap, I wouldn't be too bothered if someone 'jumped the queue'. It was my decision to wait for a gap. If I were in a rush I wouldn't be waiting and an extra 20 seconds won't make a difference. That said, if I saw a large group approaching, I'd probably set off.

There's even a section at Swinley called "Jump the queue".

Been shouted at a few times by the pyjama boys and storm troopers, **** 'em, I'm out for an XC ride, on an XC trail, the only Strava segment I actually look at is the whole loop so it makes little or no difference whether I catch someone or not. If I come across someone slower then I'll drop back to their pace and pick a place to overtake, but I'm not planning on stopping!

I think Blackflag and DONK have it. Common sense, communication and courtesy go a long way and seem to prevail on most of my trail centre visits.

well the OP suggests either the former and OP was oblivious to the fact or the latter in which case the "queuers" were daft to complain.

No indication that they were about to set off, they had watched me coming up the hill towards them for at least a minute and hadn't moved.

I wasn't suggesting this was normal behaviour btw, and I've only had someone have a go at me one time. It was just some comments in the Gnaarly enduro dood thread that reminded me of it!

Ive honestly given this a thought either,I personally like to ride continually without stopping and most people pull to one side when they hear people approaching,as do i,I wouldnt dream of asking a waiting group whether it was OK if I rode though,maybe the groups that I pass are pretty obviously having a chat and a jolly that it`s not applicable anyway.
If they want to wait for clear track then Its their choice,shouldnt affect what Im doing surely ?

there are no regulations on the trail

I'm blaming groups of more than 5. Just because.

I'm blaming people who ride at trail centres.

rider ahead has right of way.
if a slow group has literally just gone down 10 seconds earlier, then feel free to loiter and maybe tell me a slow group has just started the trail.
I'm not exactly going to win many Stava races, so sod it, I'm going to follow the slow riders down. You can wait that extra 10 or 20s and intimidate me instead of the n00bs. I'm not waiting 5 mins for the loiterers to finish loitering, unless I need a 5min break.

If you desperately want an unencumbered run, go do a Strava race when there are fewer other riders about.

I won't sprint into a trail in front of someone, but I'm not gonna ask everyone loitering about within 100 yards if I may go before them.

this basically

and to be honest I usually mosh singlespeedy past the fat enduro biffers on the climbs so I'm nice and clear to dive into singletrack without slowing them down as they have to stop for a little rest before plummeting down a trail on the latest gnarsled of ultimate trail slaying 650B+ oragange-trek-a-lized.

share and play nicely, if you need to overtake someone just use race rules and politely call a side when its safe for you to overtake, likewise if someone is ragging your back wheel, give them a call and let em know that you happy to shift when safe and for them to let you know which side they want. Jeeeesus trail centers can be so full of psuedo alpha male dicks its unreal*

* some riders are decent normal folks, some just turn into the equivalent of an audi drivng sales **** with a bad wax hair job, thinking he's on the apprentice as soon as they put their trail riding PJ's on

Sounds like the problem is a bunch of golfists on bikes... 🙂

That's exactly it. In cycling, groups of four dont have priority over pairs or singles, you dont need to ask to play through and there are no penalties for slow play. And if you've lost your balls....

mate got booted/otb/flung off their bike, by some faster riders, small group, the ones at the back saw, but did not stop

FFS...next you'll be wanting a machine that gives a number and a little barrier that goes up when it's your turn... 🙂

FFS...next you'll be wanting a machine that gives a number and a little barrier that goes up when it's your turn... 🙂

I'd laugh in your face if you thought you had the right to go before me down a trail because you're waiting. That's not mountain biking.

That's not mountain biking.

You're right. Not mountain biking, just common courtesy.

You're right. Not mountain biking, just common courtesy.

What is courteous about expecting people to live by rules that they didn't agree to or agree to allow you to make?

You're right. Not mountain biking, just common courtesy.

If someone is deliberately waiting to give someone space, is it not rude to go through ahead of them, causing them to wait longer? I'd also say if you saw a group of riders who're most likely quicker than you coming up to a trail head it would be common courtesy to either wait for them to go through or ask if they wanted to go on ahead so you can both enjoy your run, uninterrupted?

Depends. I'd actually missed the 'trail centre' point until partway through. I normally ride more natural stuff (different debate) and this sort of thing is quite rare. Usually if there are people waiting at the top on bikes looking ready to go there's someone on the trail already that they know needs a gap and it'd be rude not giving it no matter if you're busy or not. It's usually obvious if they're just debating whether to do this trail or go do something else, having a breather etc.

The trail centre context I picked up on the way through sounds more like lots of groups all obsessed with their own little bubbles and reacting badly to others interfering with their plans tbh, and a bit childish.

Us Brits love to queue, don't we!

I would never imagine having to ask who was going next. I'd never imagine being bothered if someone dropped in in front of me when I was waiting. Usually, if anything, I find it is a polite 'after you, no, after you' with other riders.

BTW, Spooky Wood has a new system now. You need to book your time slot a week in advance. You also need to supply your GPS data of your last run so the system knows when to send the next g?o?l?f?e?r? cyclist down 🙂

Us Brits love to queue, don't we!

That and we're usually pretty polite.

The Canadians are polite too, which is probably why at least half the time if we're sitting at a trail head in the bike park that a group will ask if we're about to head down or if they can ride through.

I'm not the fastest on a DH bike so I'm happy to let others through at the trail head or on the trail. If there's someone slower than me just headed down we'll tell the others why we're waiting and it's all good.

I remember when I was new and slow and at a trail centre for the first time. If everyone had left a gap for me, then there would have been an almighty queue.
When I had space, I moved, when I didn't, people waited.
No drama.
I'm not new anymore, but still slow. Never heard of all this waiting at trail heads for slow people before. Seems a bit patronising.