[Closed] wagon wheel fans-haha not one on the podium!

Tom_W1987 - Member
Why wasnt graves running the new sb75?

Yup sticking with my 26 inch wheels. On the flattest dh track (its not even a proper dh track, its not far off being an enduro level stage) on the world circuits....the 29ers and 650bs couldnt get close.

I remember half you guys saying a while ago that this was where the big wheeled bikes would prove their dominance.

+1
Yeah and north wind was one of the guys spouting it, and now he's trying to riggle out of it with all sorts of excuses! 😆

Oh go on Pussy, try and back that up.. I've been saying the same thing for ages, to the point it's getting pretty dull typing it 😉 I'm about the last person you can claim is a wagonwheel evangelist...

Despite the majority of b*llocks spouted on here, the wheel size thing probably did make a difference. After eating sh*t in the first corner Ropelato was 10th & 15th in the second & third splits.

This a guy that usually hovers around the top 40 on a DH bike. Whichever way you look at it, he was quicker than 'normal'.

I'm ambivalent to wheel sizes, but the bigger wheels clearly worked in his case. To suggest they don't based on the fact that GM won on a 26" is hardly conclusive. He would have probably won on a 650 V10 if they had one. What would you have done then?

Maxxis make 650b dual plys for sure, you just can't get hold of them yet Northwind.

If Minaar thought there was any time to be gained from 650b Santa Cruz would have banged out a prototype in no time. However, it seems that the majority of the riders for companies that have done aren't riding them at races, given the choice.

Yeah Hob, he managed to get a time in practice that would have put him about 12th in the race....on a track that's suited to shorter travel bikes.

Jared Graves doesn't usually come anywhere near 3rd either and he did that on a 26 inch bike. I get the feeling a light short travel bike gave some of the more enduro focused guys an edge as they probably aren't so used to riding full on race dh bikes.

So, the bike industry can still collectively go **** itself. Wheel size looks like it had nothing to do with anyone's result in this race.

I only caught about 5 mins but found it bizarre that the commentators behaved like 10 year olds giggling at Max Bender's name. And to make things worse, one tried to pretend it was a joke about bending wheels. How silly!

You've never met Warner have you?

I admit to knowing zilch about DH - riders or TV coverage. Just found the whole episode surprising. The coverage seemed very short for each run and not exactly thrilling. Did it get better or longer?

That's an unfair comparison. They've stupidly made the SB75 only 130mm with a steeper head angle.

So? Surely it should perform just as well as the SB66? I mean the wheels roll over so much better you don't need that extra travel burdening your extra rotating weight? And the head angle, nahh that doesn't need to be as slack because according to the marketers it doesn't need to be...teh big wheels make it ride like a slacker bike. Right?

Tom_W1987 - Member
So, surely it should perform just as well as the SB66? I mean the wheels roll over so much better you don't need that extra travel burdening your extra rotating weight? Right?

EDIT- Damn your edit.

Why not though? Half the bike companies producing 650b bikes have been knocking off a good 10-20mm of travel here and there. Then they are selling the bikes as being as capable or better than they were before.

I'm walking away. I cba to be dragged into a long, rambling wheel size debate.

Tom_W1987 - Member

Maxxis make 650b dual plys for sure, you just can't get hold of them yet Northwind.

If Minaar thought there was any time to be gained from 650b Santa Cruz would have banged out a prototype in no time.

Sorry, I could have been clearer there- they don't have a production tyre, nothing to promote with race wins, it's all just advertising. Maxxis haven't drunk the koolaid like Schwalbe have (hmm, it's almost like Schwalbe wanted to push into a new market because they were uncompetitive and uncool in the old one, while Maxxis were happier with the status quo, eh 😉 )

Thing is... It's not as simple as you say. Even assuming for the sake of argument that 650b as a wheel size was significantly better and would have gained him time, it'd still be competing with all that development and evolution of the 26er V10, what are the odds that a new design would be competitive straight away? not to mention being a new factor for the rider to deal with. The wheel size doesn't just have to be better, it has to be a hell of a lot better to become a safe bet. Which makes it tempting for less competitive riders and manufacturers to roll the dice but not so tempting for the favourite.

Well, the 650b tyre is listed on their site so I assume it's going to be out very soon. The point is, they haven't even bothered bringing different prototypes to the various tracks to try to actually find out whether they can gain a performance advantage or whether more work is needed. Development has to start somewhere Northwind.

Besides, 27.5 doesn't seem a hard size to quickly prototype with compared to the vastly different geometries needed by 29 judging by the amount of bikes that are continually being spotted.

I don't agree with the statement "a hell of a lot better". If the wheel size wasn't slowing them down and offered an outside chance of gaining a slightly faster time, they'd take it. As it is, I'm willing to place a bet that the bikes have actually been slower. Remember the timed pinkbike tests a while back? As Fabian Barrel said, 26ers generate speed whilst 29ers (maybe 27.5) hold speed, he seemed to prefer the former.

The jury is still out for me and will be for a few years, until I'm happy to part with my hard earned cash.

Tom_W1987 - Member

If the wheel size wasn't slowing them down and offered an outside chance of gaining a slightly faster time, they'd take it

Absolutely. But like i say, there's lots of reasons a 650b bike might go slower, other than "650b is slower". Main thing is I don't think you can infer much from people not choosing 650b, because there's plenty of other good reasons not to other than "the wheel size is slower"

Agreed the jury is out though- nothing new from this weekend, just more of the same. But that was always going to be the case, if Stevie had won I'd be saying "He won because he's stupidly fast, not because of his wheel size" 😉

Don't you think it's just an indictment of how we're being ripped off by the industry as a community though? They know enough about geometry now to get it right close to first time when moving up to 650b wheels but they still provide **** all of a difference.

If it isn't good enough for pro's yet, why are we being sold it? The technology is obviously immature and not yet ready for the market. I've been mountain biking for 20 years (since I was very small) and this is the first time the industry has really ground my gears.

Sorry Northwind, I'm just a skeptical jaded cynic.

Almost agree with that- at the very best and most optimistic, 650b isn't ready to take over in the way it's taking over. At worst, it's emperor's new clothes. I have 6 26 inch bikes, guess where my money is 😉

But... I don't think we're being sold 650b, exactly. I think the public have sold it to themselves. There was a lovely wee comment in that santa cruz vid where they admitted that what drove them was punters who wanted a 650b bike despite having never ridden one. Looks like "we" get the wheel size we deserve! Today changes nothing there really.

Tom_W1987 - Member
Why wasnt graves running the new sb75?

Nigel Page bigging up 27.5/29 was dull but he is part of the industry.

Nothing proved, I'm sure that if one of the other sized had won we would be extrapolating the end of 26" by now.

The best rider on the day won.

Yeah, couldn't we start harassing...say...Nukeproof...to carry on catering to 26 riders? That way they could corner the market.

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]Yeah, couldn't we start harassing...say...Nukeproof...to carry on catering to 26 riders? That way they could corner the market.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Exclusive-275-Nukeproof-Mega-AM-and-TR.html

yeah theyre carrying on the 26 inch models for a while though.

I remember the bike industry trying to flog monocoque frames as the "next" best thing that would revolutionise the industry ! sometime in the early 90's i think,

suffice to say that petered out, i know my opinion is worth **** all on here and when some one posts anything that resembles the truth on here they are labelled a troll.

So, and this is only my opinion, Big wheeled bikes roll faster ? they still need pedalling and they have to go round corners, try walking down a spiral staicase with a full size ladder and then try it with a step ladder,

i'm not trying to preach to the converted and the same has to be said with most things, the reason why you ride it is because you bought it and you bought it because you thought it was the "best" / "right" bike for you. Whether you were told it or whether you worked it out for yourself only you know, but if you ride a 26" bike and 29" bike back to back and find it quicker 'MTB" ing then can you clearly define "MTB"ing ?

Because i cant ride a 29er on the rough choppy switchback stuff that i ride ? am i doing it wrong or has my BMX background influenced the way i ride ? flowy, floaty, manualing, hopping, hip jumping methods ?

has the influx in Road biking determined this bigger wheel size with its new breed of rider ?

For me the whole reason i ride is because its an extension of a BMX, i'm not keen to move on from this ! i'm not sure others are too ?

its all well and good stating that the hardwares not cooked, nothings ready to support it ! once its ready it will spell the end................... the riders have to feel comfortouble on it !
Sure they have to do as they are told but at the end of the day competition is fierce and no one wants to miss out on a podium because they were made to ride a bike that they cant compete on ?

Jared Graves doesn't usually come anywhere near 3rd either and he did that on a 26 inch bike. I get the feeling a light short travel bike gave some of the more enduro focused guys an edge as they probably aren't so used to riding full on race dh bikes.

I wouldn't exactly call 180mm travel fork up front 'short' but obviously the better pedaling platform did work for him in the bottom part of the course.

He made a choice and put the effort it to make it pay off. To me, it's great marketing angle for Yeti, though I wouldn't be so sure an off the shelf SB66 would cope with a 180mm fork.

It's going to be interesting to see if next year more riders will have a choice of wheel sizes for each event.

discoduck - Member

I remember the bike industry trying to flog monocoque frames as the "next" best thing that would revolutionise the industry ! sometime in the early 90's i think,

suffice to say that petered out

Except for Orange, anyway.