[Closed] Very interesting article on Cassettes

Does it? From skim reading it all that does is states the obvious.

hopefully it'll get updated with deore and slx cassettes, thanks for the headsup tho.

[i]Makes interesting reading.[/i]

The world would be a very dull place if we all liked the same things... 😉

It does but it doesn't match my own experiences.

Here's how I read that article.

"This freehub is rubbish"

Although they don't say what it is.

we feel that the damage seen is unnecessary and due to poorly designed Sram cassettes.

i spent about an hour bashing a 105 cassette off a bike the other night. whats all this 'badly designed sram' bollocks? they're all the same...

That looks like a Hope [i]alloy [/i]freehub.
Here lies the problem.

Looks like a Tune freehub body to me, which was help to explain the damage too!

The damage is caused by individual sprockets, irrespective of the manufacturer. The only cassette which will not damage your freehub body is a SRAM Red or XX.

hmmm does seem a bit sram bashing, deore/lx/slx dont get a mention

The XTR is an M960, so it's obviously pre-2007 and thus pre-SLX.

HG50/HG70 would obvious mash freehubs and thus wouldn't be in keeping with their apparent SRAM: bad/Shimano: good thing.

Am I reading that right, they reused a damaged hub?

Good review shame not any current Shimano models.

Interesting how different people take different things from the same article, I didn't see it as SRAM bashing, just bashing any cassette that doesn't have a solid spider tube (or whatever you call it) it has certainly ruled out some of the cassettes I was considering.

not a good review in my eyes. basically it says individual rings can damage soft ali bodies.

hardly groundbreaking is it?

It has the feel of a GCSE coursework project. Some [s]interesting[/s] facts, but outweighed by assumptions and conjecture.

Experience tells us that steel freehub bodies are largely unaffected by whatever cassette or singlespeed sprocket you use, whereas alloy ones need to be protected.

[i]It has the feel of a GCSE coursework project.[/i]

As good as that. Piss poor amateur review trying to be pro is what I'd call it.

It's worth noting that XT/XTR only has the first five or so sprockets on a smooth spider. The rest are loose, and yes they do stick. But it's not that bad - a few knocks get it loose.

Posted by EyeBike on 2006-12-06

OK sorry it's not very interesting at all, and to some people a bit obvious, but I found it useful for narrowing down the bewildering choices of cassettes out there and I thought I'd share in case anyone else was in the same position.

why don't Hope put a steel face on some of the splines? It would still be almost as light and wouldn't suffer from this at all.

FWIW i wish I had seen this 6 months ago before I buggered up my Pro 2's freehub body

EDIT:
like this one
[IMG] [/IMG]

pic borrowed from here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=620173

Some chap on Weight Weenies put staples along his splines to have that effect, interesting way of achieving something similar, not sure how well it'd work, but he seemed to think it was working.

I think American Classic are spot on with their solution. I think they're the only ones to be doing it though.

I wouldn't say it's fascinating reading, but relevant to me. I bought a SRAM PG980 (I think), which has an alloy spider. Said alloy spider only stretches to about the 4th sprocket though, so my Hope freehub will undoubtedly suffer. Ah well, you live and learn!

It'll suffer totally irrespective of what cassette you get frankly, unless you get an XX one! If you have XT/XTR then the smallest sprockets will dig in. I had to get the Dura Ace cassette of my 240 freehub on Sunday, some of the sprockets had made it halfway through the splines!

Just building up my first Campagnolo darkside machine, and noticed that the splines on a Campag freehub are much deeper. Apparently they don't get notched.

I wouldn't worry about it. I've had alloy/ti freehub bodies for a while, you have to knock them off a bit but it's ok really. No significant probs.

Makes interesting reading

No, no it doesn't.
😐

IMO it's silly to make a freehub out of cheese when a well 'ard metal would only be a few grammes heavier 🙁

Quite a few grammes heavier. I'm surprised the likes of Hope don't offer a choice (I know you can get steel ones after market). I'll personally live with having to take my cassette off with a hammer for the weight saved, I imagine a number of folk would feel the opposite!

Tune do a titanium freehub to get around it, more expensive than the stock one and heavier!

Early Shimano 10 speed hubs had much deeper splines to get around it, but it meant reverse incompatibility, so they relented and went back to shallower splines. The cassettes are still deeper though.

shimano 10spd splines are taller to fix this problem. have to buy shimano cassettes only for my wheelset (i.e. i cant run sram on them...)

interesting eh? hmmmmm.

I think Hope do (or did) offer a choice?

Smaller sprockets have much less torque on them so digging in isn't as big a problem.

I've had the odd mark but I've never written off a freehub body. As long as the biggest sprockets are on a carrier there is no problem.

£250 ish for a xx cassette v £50-£150 for a freehub body... difficult choice?

The difference between PG970 and PG990 cassette is about £22, a new free-hub for Pro 2 is £55, so if the hub lasts 3 cassettes, you have already saved money; and even if the body is a bit chewed up like in the pictures, you can still put on a cassette with a solid spider and keep going. I am on a fourth or fith cassette at the moment ...

Smaller sprockets have much less torque on them so digging in isn't as big a problem.

Surely this sentiment that's been echoed through this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong??

Unless you're riding in the wrong gear with an uneven pedal stroke - the max torque transmitted through the transmission will be similar throughout the gear range.

Smaller sprockets have much less torque on them so digging in isn't as big a problem.

I think this is a red herring, as on many cassettes, the sprockets are all clamped together (or on a common carrier), so the force is distributed across the freehub splines

the max torque transmitted through the transmission will be similar throughout the gear range.

No. Power, yes; torque no. That's the whole point of gearing, and it's why you can accelerate quicker in lower gears.

I think Hope do (or did) offer a choice?

You can retro fit the steel freehub body, you can't order it with a steel one (I don't think...).

£250 ish for a xx cassette v £50-£150 for a freehub body... difficult choice?

Well it rather depends if you have an XX groupset or not! It's not much use if you run XTR, nor is an XT cassette much use if you run 10 speed! I was merely meaning that that style of cassette, with the entire cassette being one piece, does seem to totally avoid the freehub problem. It's certainly not enough reason to make me pay £300 for a cassette mind!

That's the whole point of gearing, and it's why you can accelerate quicker in lower gears.

Bearing in mind, the average Joe doesn't accelerate out of the blocks like a 4X racer - I don't see your point.

IME, Ti freehub bodies gouge too, and anyway, the problem is only one of cosmetics - If you take a file to the displaced metal it doesn't cause a sticking cassette problem again.

Until the next time you come to remove the cassette, agree that it doesn't really matter though!

http://www.langsettcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b104s307p7027&rs=gb

Hope Pro II freehub - 80g alloy vs 148g steel

Even XTR cassettes mark the hubs, but its the lightest 'affordable' option.

"Lakes_Puma

I found it useful for narrowing down the bewildering choices of cassettes out there"

Nah, there's only 4 choices. Deore if you're cheap, SLX if you're slightly less cheap, XT if you're not cheap and XTR if you're minted. Oh, OK, 5 choices- SRAM if you don't mind paying slightly more for an equivalent product.

retro83 - Member

"FWIW i wish I had seen this 6 months ago before I buggered up my Pro 2's freehub body"

Hope amusingly put a little note in with my Hoops saying that any damage caused by spiderless cassettes is only cosmetic. How I laughed.

"simonfbarnes - Member

IMO it's silly to make a freehub out of cheese when a well 'ard metal would only be a few grammes heavier"

I think that's just because the alloy freehub body is the only thing that makes Pro 2 rears light- with the steel one it comes out much the same as an XT, and that'd be one hard sell.

I don't understand how anyone can worry about the damage to the freehub. The freehub will far outlast the extra cost of these spider cassettes. By the time the freehub body is damaged beyond repair it would need replacement for bearings/prawls anyway. This is my experience of using cheap cassettes on alloy hope bodies.

could this be the answer - cheaper than xtr too

[url= http://clee-cycles.co.uk/cc/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/24_75/products_id/131?osCsid=f9f0edb07071c02eff8aa042d91af64e ]here[/url]

Just no.

[img] [/img]

A rather common occurence I understand.

Any cassette will mark the freehub, XT/XTR less than some.