[Closed] Utterly Defeated by Tubeless!

I spent a good few hours trying to get tubeless working on a set of Stans Arch Ex's last Sunday with no success

Tried three different tubeless valves (the final one seemed to be OK, but then the bead would no longer seat)

Two different tyres (High Roller Lust and High Roller Exo (TR))

I used a charger style track pump getting up to 200psi with no luck

The rim tape I'm using is gorilla tape

I also run two sets of Mavic Crossmax SX's (sealed rim) and these seem to go up without issue using the charger pump, sometimes using a normal track pump

The front one was definitely suffering from lack of tape. I think I'll try some of your tape Ben, totally forgot about it!

Just need to summon the courage to try again now 🙂

Not looking forward to that rear one though....

Im going to plug my own product here...

I like the look of that.

Currently using Tesa tape that is supposed to be the same as Stans but I am not 100 convinced. Never had fresh Stans tape but the stuff I just took off an Arch EX Hope Hoop feels a bit different. Could just be old.

When I tape up rims I use my heat gun set to 160 degC and use a microfibre cloth to try and protect my thumb. Do a single cold wrap putting a lot of tension on the tape and pushing it into the well. Then go around with the heat gun and cloth working the tape down from the well outwards and pushing air either torwards the spoke holes or the edges.

First time I did I ended up with blistered thumbs from the friction and air heat. I find the Tesa stuff a bit too thick so this Bird stuff looks much better.

Also tried blue composite bagging tape, it was crap.

Bought some Bird tape, got to support our local STWers

I love tubeless - 1 genuine innovation in a world of pointless changes for the sake of it. That said I would never try to seat a tyre without an inflation device. Why bother with the uncertainty and hassle. Will this tyre/rim combo seat? maybe yes?, maybe no? maybe after 2 hours of frantic pumping or messing about with multiple layers of tape and temporary inner tubes.

Sod that! Make yourself a lemonade bottle inflator - or even better a fire extinguisher inflator for those real stubborn tyres 🙂
One layer of stans tape
pop the tyre on
remove the valve core
Inflate your fire extinguisher to the required pressure for the tyre.... Maxxis about 50PSI, Magic Mary about 80PSI, Ghetto 4in Fatbike Tyre about 160PSI....dont do that one with a pop bottle!!!
Then just press go and watch the magic happen

All you have to worry about now is what to do with all the spare time you now have when you used to be faffing with tyres!

I've just done my front Rocket Ron, the 29er version went on fine, so thought i'd try the 650b version. They're not techincally tubeless, but the 29er version are holding fine up to now.

Just done my wife's wheels (WTB i25 rims with a High Roller 2 / Shorty combo.

Took 3 minutes to do both wheels...

I feel abused by Schwalbe 🙁

Just swapped a pair of Schwalbe G One Speed from one set of Ksyriums (with worn bearings) to another set. Aside from them being unbelievably hard to remove and mount, and not seating the valves properly, leading to immediate leaks, the job was straightforward. Needs very thin tyre levers to get under the bead to lift it off, so will be problematic out on the road.

Superb tyres though, really very good indeed. I've just ordered an Airshot and the fastest tyres in the world, for my first TT of 2017 on Saturday.

Ohh, good luck in the TT TiRed. Giving the tyres a test on Sunday in the PMBA at Gisburn (hartail cat).

Fingers crossed that it's puncture free (for you and me!).

What's the general consensus on using tape with true UST rims and tyres?

I'm getting the impression that people tend to use it anyway.

I fitted a UST Trail King to a UST (fulcrum) rim without tape and despite the fact that it was the loosest tyre ever (this is no exaggeration) it went up okay with a ghetto compressor.

It did take a couple of weeks for the stans to fully seal it but after a couple of re-pumps it held air and has continued to be faultless since.

I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Fingers crossed that it's puncture free (for you and me!).

Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ Tubeless in 23c on Giant pSLR aero wheels if I can mount them! Lots of Stans fluid to help with punctures. It's a 25 with 25 miles of hills there and back to warm up and cool down.

I've ordered some of the Bird tape too.

I'll have another crack once my thumbs have recovered from excessive tyre fitting.

I was really struggling to get Magic Mary onto Hope Tech Enduro wheels. Tried all sorts but I built one of these last night;

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/how-to-make-a-tubeless-inflator-44290/

2 wraps of stans, core out the valve, 80psi into the bottle. First time on both wheels!

After years of relatively easy tubeless tyre usage across MTB, road and CX bikes I am completely stumped by what should be an easy one - Hutchison Toro tubeless ready CX tyres on an Easton Haven UST wheel. Soapy water, Airshot, valve core out, tube in, toestrap to splay the tyre round the valve. Nothing working. Had to give up yesterday and have just had to move them out of my eye line in the workshop to avoid losing more hours of my (working) life.

Might have another go at them tonight, but will be trying more ale with them... Maybe even some gin if things get really sticky.

Wynne, let this be a thread to share frustrations about failed tubeless attempts!

I'm going to order some Bird tape and some more sealant and have another go next week.

For some bizarre reason, in my head, it feels like a massive handicap having tubes back in! Totally irrational, but I can't help it.

...on using tape with true UST rims and tyres?

I'm getting the impression that people tend to use it anyway.

I never did; there was no need with UST rims, so why would you?

these are all tips I have picked up on forums and from mates.

tight new tyres, turn them inside out at least overnight before fitting them, it seems to stretch the bead.

Once on the rim, run a tyre lever around the inside to lift the bead and seat it.

with new tape I put a tyre on with a tube in and high pressure to seat the tape. Be careful with damaging the tape when levering tight tyres onto the rim.

My main issue has been leaks from spoke holes and I use a dab of clear silicone to seal them.

Wynne - you sure there isn't a sneaky hole / gap in the rim tape?

There is no tape - it's a completely sealed UST rim bed. Other tyres have gone up first time on them with just a track pump and stayed up without sealant.

As I say, more gin should sort it.

Well, my plan went well, then badly...

Tape arrived VERY quickly from Bird... all fitted.... I then looked and realised i've used up all my tubeless valves hahahahaha.

What's the general consensus on using tape with true UST rims and tyres?

I'm getting the impression that people tend to use it anyway.

No need, why would you? I certainly don't.

So I just built a ghetto tubeless inflator- thanks for posting the link aldo56!

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/how-to-make-a-tubeless-inflator-44290/

It might not be the easiest way to go tubeless but certainly one of the cheapest!! £3.41 for the plastic tubing (I had some Stan's super goo and yellow tape already). Very happy!

Tips if you are struggling:

1. More layers of tape if tyre is baggy- electrical or gaffer tape will do if you already have at least one layer of Stan's yellow tape on.

2. A good slosh all the way round the rim with washing liquid mixed with (not much!) water. This is also useful for seeing if their any bubbles coming through the sidewall after it's inflated.

3. Take the valve core out to get the bead seated

i had mixed resulst on 2 sets of wheels for my old bike.
first set were a pair of dt swiss rims using stans tape. all went perfectly well.
second set of rims were wider atomlab dhr rims so i used gorilla tape but with no success...air seems to leak out near the valve hole so thinking i had cut the hole for the valve too big i started again
second attempt worked and the tyres inflated but went down overnight and wouldnt inflate again..so again i started again
LBS suggested i sue a proper kit and sold me a caffelatex kit that came with the strips with the valve attached. so i tried that and it worked but the tryes went down overnight so i re inflated them and after about 2 minutes of adding about 40psi to seat the bead the rear tyre blew off...it ripped the bead open and left me covered in sealant....the shocking bit was that the sealant congealed overnight so its hadnt done it job...hence why it leaked air in the first place...i scraped the mess out of what was left of the tyre and it looked like a flipping omelette!!
tried again with more gorilla tape but this time i added more layers to try and reduce the gap but again no such luck!!
ive even tried using 20" tubes but again no joy so i eventually admitted defeat and stuck tubes back in them

new bike came with tubeless wheels already set up but i still have the old bike which i'm going to rebuild onto a small hardtail for gonzy jr...i'll stick the dt swiss wheels back on and i may have another crack at the atomlab wheels again at some point

Aside from them being unbelievably hard to remove and mount, and not seating the valves properly, leading to immediate leaks, the job was straightforward.

It's reading things like this that puts me off - people who run tubeless seem to have a different frame of reference for what words like "straightfoward" and "easy" mean. I think I'll stick to tubes thanks!

gonzy - Member
i had mixed resulst on 2 sets of wheels for my old bike.
first set were a pair of dt swiss rims using stans tape. all went perfectly well.
second set of rims were wider atomlab dhr rims so i used gorilla tape but with no success...air seems to leak out near the valve hole so thinking i had cut the hole for the valve too big i started again
second attempt worked and the tyres inflated but went down overnight and wouldnt inflate again..so again i started again
LBS suggested i sue a proper kit and sold me a caffelatex kit that came with the strips with the valve attached. so i tried that and it worked but the tryes went down overnight so i re inflated them and after about 2 minutes of adding about 40psi to seat the bead the rear tyre blew off...it ripped the bead open and left me covered in sealant....

Have you tried sealing the tyre/rim and then adding sealant after?

Have you tried sealing the tyre/rim and then adding sealant after?

thats how i did them...once the tyre bead has popped into the rim i add the sealant through he valve core...but for some reason the atomlab rims dont like going tubeless...the tyres now refuse to pop onto the rim...to be fair the rim is quite deep so i'm going to have to add a few more layers of tape to the rim to build the height up s the tyre doesnt drop into the rim

Might be TT'ing on my tubulars! My mistake seems to be not tightening the valves enough. Front one wouldn't seal at all with the contents of the airshot gushing out everywhere through the carbon fairings. Have removed tyre with NEW Topeak tyre lever, and tightened valve. It did seal a non tubeless GP 4 Seasons, which I put back on to test the valve - it being easier to take off again!!!

Then called away for a few hrs with the corsa speed back on and valve core out. Oh the anticipation ;-).

I've found Schwalbe OK, particularly on proper Mavic UST rims, but on other rims I have added appropriate layers of tape.

The hope tech enduro rim looks like it has a deep well in the middle, which isn't ideal for getting tubeless to seal as if the beads drop in there it's not going up easily... Obviously remove the valve core if you're having difficulties.

With all tyres , but particularly ones that are loose fitting it makes life much easier if you lift the bead out of the well and onto the edge of the rim . You can do this with your hands if you wish or use a tyre lever to lift the bead .

Positive: Front tyre is mounted
Negative: Valve on my Joe Blow must be of, because the Airshot blew out the internal valve well before 160 PSI 🙁

Mounted, filled with Stans and appears to be holding air. Of course I used a CO2 for the final fill, so have probably frozen the latex solid.

Time for another Silca (lost my original in a move)

Ramsey, that was the last thing I tried before giving in to tubes 🙂

Just need more tape is all (I hope!).

[b]Just had the easiest tubeless fitting ever. Specialized Slaughter Grid 26x2.3 onto Easton EA70 UST rims. Prepared rim and bead with soapy cloth, removed valve core, and pumped up by hand with a track pump. Didn't even have to pump like a crazed maniac, in comparison with past efforts, I barely put any effort into it.[/b]

A previous tubeless attempt to fit an already used Kenda Nevegal Pro on same rims, was nightmare. Tried that "trick" of lifting the bead onto the rim as shown in video above... Absolutely useless, it just doesn't work. Un-seating one side after seating tyre with inner tube has always worked for me using with a track pump.

Just remembered one bright idea I had once to cut an inner tube opposite to the valve and seal each end air tight (using zip ties 😳 ). Then the rim could be seated using this [i]special[/i] inner tube and to remove it, just open up a small gap between rim and bead. 😳

Absolutely useless, it just doesn't work

It so does .

gonzy - Member
Have you tried sealing the tyre/rim and then adding sealant after?
thats how i did them...once the tyre bead has popped into the rim i add the sealant through he valve core...but for some reason the atomlab rims dont like going tubeless...the tyres now refuse to pop onto the rim...to be fair the rim is quite deep so i'm going to have to add a few more layers of tape to the rim to build the height up s the tyre doesnt drop into the rim

Another option is to remove the valve and use a rim-strip to pack it out. Adding more and more weight though :(.

Ramsay Neil's post is good info.

Finally gave in and did mine this weekend. Rims are WTB with a very deep spoke well and standard non UST tyres.

Initially tried packing the channel with draught excluder rubber strips and then a couple of layers of TESA tape.

The Tesa tape is no good if you need it to deform - it's just to rigid and putting a tight tyre on it will cause it to lift if it isn't solidly supported.

Trid again with cloth duct tape, a narrow run in the well and then two runs overlapping and getting right into edges of rim. Went up with my ghetto inflator no problem - bit of leakage around valve but soon sealed up.

Added a few rubber shavings into my sealant by taking a surform to my old rubber mallet 🙂

For tape, I know Gorilla tape isn't universally liked but twice at BPW (mostly because I'm a riding klutz) I needed the tape replaced on a 35mm rim. The workshop have various width gorilla tape, the widest of which is just wide enough for those rims. Been absolutely fine since...

I also love/hate watching expensive stans' fluid exit the rim void as it's blown out with an airline 😉

Talking of which, being a bit of a serial tyre changer at the moment - between chubby and standard - I finally bought a compressor. Budget set at £100, spent £99.95 including delivery and a set of air tools including a decent looking gauged inflater attachment.

Now I have that, going to convert all my rims to Gorilla tape. Mainly so have an excuse to play with the airline 🙂

Absolutely useless, it just doesn't work

It so does .

I've just had the craziest amount of noise coming from my back wheel after changing it to tubeless last night- has anyone else had this? Lots of graunching, clanging, pinging and clanking. It was surprisingly noisy, I stopped several times to check the spokes and rode pretty gingerly to be honest. Went on for about half an hour and now seems to have stopped. Weird!

I also have an Alfine hub so I'm thinking maybe it's that..

Probably does with some tyre/rim combinations

I think this is so true. I tried to cut my tubeless teeth with nobby nics on stans crests. Did everything right; stans valves, tape, fluid. But just could not get the tyres on! Then I tried some non-tubeless continentals and these were OK and finally some some CX Pro cyclocross tyres with a wire bead and had no trouble.

I've found that proper road tubeless tyres on Ksyriums have been a dream. mounted with thumbs or a single lever, inflated with a track pump, ride like tubs! I've also found I'm rubbish at using tape and evern worse at doing up the valves tight enough to seal. Now I only use the conical cross section valves - just used some 80 mm Silca ones on my aero wheels.

Getting there, slowly. But the ride of those G-ONES is just so good that it makes up for any hassle. If the Corsa Speeds don't save me 20 Watts I'd be surprised 8)

I've used two pairs of pliers to grip either side of the sidewall and pulled the beads out closer to the bead hook - hope this makes sense . . Meticulously repeat around the whole wheel until tyre is closer to being seated . . Compressor or ghetto inflator to finish - No point in sweating over a track pump - it generally works easily or not at all IME ..

Fat bike I know - but the method remains, especially if using baggy tyre/rims.

[url= http://www.mtb-uk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=373 ]Tubeless on baggy rims[/url]

Is it really this easy?

I've found on non-UST rims with a bit of a well in the middle that Velox rim tape is pretty good if you need to build up the height significantly.

Has anyone tried the lighter fluid inflation method to get tubeless up?