Tyres. I want to try them all, but I know it doesn't make any sense

You can't always tell. No expert on MTB, but I'll only notice from a more XC tyre to an enduro type - rolling vs much better grip - I opt for the better grip, especially off camber.

Road tyres, I can feel it more, but I care less now (long time road cyclist). Robust tyres roll less well, and are a bit dull in feel. Better ones do indeed roll better and feel better and 'sing' with the light inner tubes, but are prone to holes.

But compound to compound on a similar tyre, you'd have to be pushing them far to notice. The carcase will make a difference for DH etc. on robustness.

Can’t remember the last time I repeat bought the same tyres, always like to try something new. Never schwalbe though, don’t want their ridiculous names in massive letters on my bike, don’t care how good they may be

Away from tyres specifically, I'm usually pretty open to trying new (sometimes niche) products. I've tried various handlebar shapes and sizes, wheel and tyre sizes, bikepacking bags, pedals, grips and so on - even tents, tarps, stoves and so on. Some I stick with, some just get moved on after a wee while, though I do try to give them a decent "testing" interval. Part of it is if you don't try it all, how do you know you've currently got the best setup? 

Magic Mary front, with Rock Razor (dry conditions), or Hans Dampf (wet conditions) rear (is all you will ever need)*.

The ridiculous names in big letters instantly make you 167% more rad.

You can thank me later.
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*In the STW tradition of recommending 😉

But compound to compound on a similar tyre, you’d have to be pushing them far to notice. The carcase will make a difference for DH etc. on robustness.

Compound contributes more to rolling resistance than carcass I believe, and I do notice that when pedalling. Descending I notice the difference between hardish and medium/soft, but I doubt I would to ultra soft unless it was on maybe wet rock.

I’ve tried various handlebar shapes and sizes, wheel and tyre sizes, bikepacking bags, pedals, grips and so on – even tents, tarps, stoves and so on.

I've done handlebar backsweeps and grips, well worth it and you can sell them as one ride old as that's enough to figure them out.

Part of it is if you don’t try it all, how do you know you’ve currently got the best setup?

Absolutely. If I hadn't tried other things I'd still be on 8 degree backsweep bars and DMR DeathGrips.

It's one reason why I'm skeptical of forum recommendations. Most people haven't tried many other comparable things especially recently. I see a few recommendations for things proper journalist testers have low opinions of.

If I hadn’t tried other things I’d still be on 8 degree backsweep bars

It annoys me that there's so few options for 12-16 degree backsweep bars.

I see a few recommendations for things proper journalist testers have low opinions of.

Ah, that's another thing. I don't read "proper journals" and rely on testing things out for myself, or based on the opinions of other folk that I know have similar tastes / interests to myself.

Oh god yeah, I'm a tyre addict. I mean, it's just a part of the hobby I enjoy, always thinking about those little differences and trying to get it <just right>. Even when I hit one that I think stands out- like, the shorty and dhr2 maxxgrips, the conti argotal, the rockrazor- I still always think "OK so let's go one better".

Tyres no, I'm pretty content with Terreno Dry on the gravel bike and GP5000 on the road bike. I could probably go lighter or more supple than the Terreno but I imagine that would just result in more punctures, I'm heavy on my tyres!

Part of it is if you don’t try it all, how do you know you’ve currently got the best setup?

This is exactly the trap I've fallen into with saddles! I thought I had found my perfect saddle (Fizik Antares) but then took a few months off the bike and it's all change again, now on Terra Argo on the gravel bike which is a fundamentally different sort of saddle, and experimenting with an Aliante on the road bike. I shudder to think how much I might have spent on saddles in the last couple of years, but at least can recoup 60-70% of cost second hand...

I like simple tyre ranges, Maxxis confuses me so much I'll likely never buy them, currently on Bontrager tyres.

* and I won't buy tyres you need a mortgage for.

I am a bit tyre curious, but not to the extent that I will spend a fortune on trying then all. But I will pick up secondhand tyres for the purpose of trying something new. There's always folk clearing out tyre stashes.

Interesting Maxxis comment. I feel I understand the Maxxis MTB range pretty well but trying to translate that to Schwalbe has always put me off

Maybe the new (semi) radial tyres will sort that

Anyone else like this?

A bit, but I figure that most decent tyres have capabilities that most average riders probably aren't going to exceed in suitable conditions for the tyre, so I'm not overly worried. Once I've found a combination that works for me, I'll just repeat buy, but maybe with the occasional speculative wander into other territory.

For ages, for me, that meant DHFs up front and something faster and less grippy out back. That got thrown a bit because there is no 29'x2.4 DHF, but mostly thant's how I roll. Tyres are so expensive now, that swapping anything that broadly works for the latest spangly tread seems a bit mad. It doesn't mean I'm not fussy - I am - or curious, I am too, but I'm not about to try 'everything'.

If Maxxis would just make a 29 x 2.4 DHF I could run that with a Rock Razor on the back and be broadly happy. I'm sure there are other 'better' combos, but in the real world, I think it would make relatively little difference to me. YMMV.

Anyone else like this? I don’t know why. It’s just tyres, not any other components. And I’m already happy with my current tyres.

*raises hand*

I always seem to find something new to try out.

But I'll caveat that with tyre inflation (geddit?) has modified my buying to exclude the most fashionable/pricey brands - so I've not tried the new Contis and don't get many Maxxis these days.

Tyres currently in use (or part-used waiting to go back on) across my bikes include: Schwalbe, WTB, Spesh, Michelin, Onza, Maxxis and a brand called Terrene.

But I’ll caveat that with tyre inflation (geddit?) has modified my buying to exclude the most fashionable/pricey brands – so I’ve not tried the new Contis

Considering how you ride, i find it slightly bonkers that you've not ridden what's arguably the best tyres on the market.

I stick with what I'm comfortable with - run a combo of High Rollers/Minions/lately Assegai for literally decades now. Tried Schwalbe on a bike for a few weeks once and just didn't gel with them - amazing how very different they felt. Not just me either - big group of mates all ride Maxxis tyres I think.

I have tested over 50 tyres and in retrospect most are quite bad.

Manufacturers often claim superior performance due new rubber compounds and yet after some wear it becomes evident that in some tyres grip has come clever block shapes instead.
Credit where it is due, tyre carcasses seem to have been really developed over last few years.

This is me hands down. I do my own head in pondering what to use.

Rear tyre I’ve kind of settled on a dhr2 or kryptotal rear but I have just bought a high roller 3 to try over winter.

Front, I used to be a magic Mary ultrasoft fan boy, but found that the assegai maxxgrip is better in the dry and shorty maxxgrip better in the wet. But you get times when it’s a mix of both. Magic Mary is brilliant for mixed conditions but I do prefer maxxgrip double down casing so I’ve got a high roller 3 on order to try, but should I try argotal?! And then my friend raved on about the Michelin DH22 so should I try this… it never ends!

The problem (or not) is that there is so many good tyres now.

Maxxis confuses me so much I’ll likely never buy them

I feel the opposite. All those options are essential, because we all ride in different places, in different ways, on different bikes.

I'm one of the "big volume light sidewall grippy rubber wide spaced" people... whereas others need faster rolling but heavy duty sidewalls.... or grippy but smaller volume... or wide spaced but faster compound... and all the various combos in between. Throw in the British seasons... and there's a time and place for all of the options.

Convert to Specialized tyres here - T7 for the back or less wet conditions, T9 for the front, Grid Trail casings (plus inserts much of the time), 2.3/2.4" (actual) width, cut spike style up front, intermediate rear. Riding mostly natural trails with lots of mud and wet roots when it's wet, or unpredictable loose over hard when it's dry means that there's no such thing as a perfect tyre. Nowadays I tend to blame the wrong tyre pressure rather than the tyre when I'm struggling (or I just blame me!)

Considering how you ride, i find it slightly bonkers that you’ve not ridden what’s arguably the best tyres on the market.

Thanks for the flattering inference, but I'm just an average mid-pack kind of rider - and as Gav said:

The problem (or not) is that there is so many good tyres now.

I feel like most of the tyres I've got are more than "good enough" for me now. For example, the cheap Spesh tyres in T9 are right up there for wet or dry conditions (they lack a great mixed option though) — and I don't think there's a better all rounder than the WTB Verdict.

Inserts have made a big difference too, as I used to pick tyres much more on whether they were likely to get holed or not.

I'm sure I'll get round to Conti at some point though 😀

Just had our drop of Albert Radials in.

Trail pro 29 x 2.5

Not ridden it yet but first impressions...

Weight 1200g pretty much on the nose.
Looks a lot like a generalist tyre. Similar to the Kryptotal front but with some of the blocks squared up rather than chamfered, which will give better climbing although sacrificing rolling speed.
Fairly close spaced tread pattern so not going to go deep into the slop.

Will be riding one this weekend... Hopefully no one will die.

I disagree with Mmaner - there are a lot of good tyres out there.

I've got a lot of different sets on the go. I even whisper it, mix brands.

The very good:

Magic Mary - very quick for the grip, clears well.

Bontrager XR4 - very comfy, quick, rear tyre, surprisingly grippy, no odd behaviour. This is what you want on the rear of your hardtail.

The good:

DHF WT 2.5 - real carvers if you want to throw the bike around, quicker than you'd think, less flexible than the Mary's but very happy to have on my enduro bike which is mostly fair weather.

Nobby Nics 2.35 trail - again, no weird quirks, not quite as quick, or comfy as the XR4s.

The So So:

Put a Rekon on the rear of my hardtail as a summer option - put the NN on the front. You know, not much faster than the Schwalbe, but packs up a whole lot quicker...

The poor:

Maxxis Aggressor - poor at everything, can see why they brought out the Dissector, which my mate rates, they should get rid of this pattern now.

Maxxis Aggressor – poor at everything, can see why they brought out the Dissector,

I followed youngest_oab up and down Comrie techy trails a couple of weeks ago on Dissector Exo MaxxTerra.

I couldn't believe how much his rear tyre struggled for grip uphill - real moments of sudden 'let go' compared to my serene  and constant grip from Minion DHR. Downhill he had a few real sideways slips on slippery rocks - yet his front Butcher and my Minions just rolled. It was really noticeable.

Happy to try any tyre that has ‘Maxxis’ written on the side. Not really for any loyalty to the brand as much as simply not having the time to learn about every other manufactures names or acronyms for the carcasses, compounds, IRL sizing, and tread patterns.

Just got an Assegai and Dissector in DD maxxgrip flavour, because I enjoy pedalling through treacle.

I'm not sure there's ever a perfect tyre as conditions/ground are so changeable/varied within a ride.

Wondering if you'd not get better enjoyment, ROI and immediate results dicking around w tyre pressure? I've been surprised the last couple of weekends out with others riding more aggressive winter tyres that they were running a bit too hard, and struggling for grip on greasy chalk, but me running low pressure on a summer fasttrak had no problems at all. Even in a bit of slop not a lot of difference between grip levels. Have to say I was a bit surprised and impressed with grip levels, and wondering if as it gets wetter I just drop it the tyres a couple psi rather than go to the faff of swapping.

I did half my summer-winter tyre change before today’s ride and immediately regretted not swapping the rear too. On that bike I’ve taken to running a Magic Mary soft front and Eliminator T7 rear in the drier months and a Hillbilly T9 front and Butcher T6 rear in the wetter ones.

I thought this time I could leave the Eliminator on the back but it’s just not toothy enough for singlespeeding uphill in the mud. And now I’m wondering if I should try the DHR2 2.3 or the DHR2 2.4 (both dual compound) I have in my emergency tyre stockpile…

The dhr is much gripper than a Dissector.

The Dissector is the fast rolling replacement for High Roller 2s and Aggressors I'd say it was more of a dry conditions tyre, not sure what your trails are like at the moment.

DHRs are a classic, but I prefer a looser, more drifty rear. Horses for courses.

struggling for grip on greasy chalk

Does anything 'grip' on greasy chalk though? My experience is not. That said it's all about your local riding conditions - assuming you're riding locally that is. As a Dark Peak-based person, I've long realised that mostly we don't get 'proper' mud, more a sort of gritty, slurry that most tyres will cut through to an extent. On top of that, wet gritstone is still pretty grippy, so you can trust it. Contrast the Lakes, where a lot of the rock is treacherous when wet and means I have to recalibrate my brain every time I ride there.

But it does mean I can run a fast, less grippy tyre - eg: Rock Razor - on the rear locally, paired with a toothier front, as that does the steering and gripping, particularly under braking. I could run a grippy rear - DHR2 for example - but my calculation is that I lose more in rolling speed over a full, hilly up-and-down ride than I gain in grip. If there was a rear tyre that gripped like a DHR2 and rolled like a Rock Razor or Racing Ralph, I'd use that instead, but it's FTW (Fantasy Tyre World) territory.

Fwiw, I think people under-estimate the grip you get from a lot of XC-type tyres. I ran a Wolfpack / Ralph combo on my FlareMax for a few months and not only didn't die, but found it 'surprisingly capable'. I blame reviewers to an extent. The thing where bike testers and brands have brain-washed people into thinking downhill tyres are 'trail tyres', seem to test them on e-mtbs half the time, and pretty everything that's not a full-on, super tacky 2.6" downhill casing tractor tyre is described as 'fast rolling'. Or 'surprisingly fast rolling', the surprise, presumably, is that they move at all.

I genuinely believe that a lot of people who believe that they are really unfit are simply struggling to overcome the prodigious rolling resistance of the downhill-type tyres that are becoming the norm on trails even when the rider isn't using a fraction of the grip they provide.

I genuinely believe that a lot of people who believe that they are really unfit are simply struggling to overcome the prodigious rolling resistance of the downhill-type tyres that are becoming the norm on trails even when the rider isn’t using a fraction of the grip they provide.

It'd be worth testing/trying. I used to love a Maxxis Aspen for example or a Rapid Rob (before they changed), they were ace in just about everything i needed. But now i run Super Soft DH Contis lol

I do think a lot of people are 'over tyred' and not needing or getting 'maximum grip' from them. But isn't that the same as all our frames / forks / brakes / body armour / etc?

It's the thing we've been sold - that a heavy Enduro bike is needed for all riding.

I disagree with Mmaner – there are a lot of good tyres out there.

You list few good ones but since the rest are * I believe my argument stands. 🙂

Though IMO only last version of Nobby Nic (looks like mini Magic Mary) is worth anything, first ones were really * as they punctured way too easily and had no grip in wet roots.

Tyres must be tested in local trails, I don’t understand Maxxis Aggressor either but I hear they are great on Moab slickrock but I haven’t ridden there ever.

As far as understanding the range goes, WTB are as simple as it gets IMO...

Tough/Light for carcass, High Grip/Fast Rolling for compound. Easy peasy 🙂

I run a Light/HG Vigilante on the front and Tough/Fast Trail Boss on the back of my Blue Pig. Perfect all year round combo for me anyway.

chiefgrooveguruFull Member
Convert to Specialized tyres here – T7 for the back or less wet conditions, T9 for the front, Grid Trail casings (plus inserts much of the time), 2.3/2.4″ (actual) width, cut spike style up front, intermediate rear. Riding mostly natural trails with lots of mud and wet roots when it’s wet, or unpredictable loose over hard when it’s dry means that there’s no such thing as a perfect tyre. Nowadays I tend to blame the wrong tyre pressure rather than the tyre when I’m struggling (or I just blame me!)

I’m interested in that Spec. experiment for the Occam, same trail type - which tyres please?

but since the rest are * I believe my argument stands. 🙂

In what way are they *?
Do you just mean they don’t suit your particular riding? If so, that doesn’t (necessarily) mean they are bad, just they’re not right for you.

UK conditions are a nightmare for tyre manufacturers. So many soil types and microclimates in a relatively small area. Go 50 miles in any direction and everything changes.

I quite liked the 2.5 Aggressor on the back for the Angus glens. Big volume and worked well on loose, chunky land rover tracks. Same tyre at Dunkeld was a liability.

I do think a lot of people are ‘over tyred’ and not needing or getting ‘maximum grip’ from them. But isn’t that the same as all our frames / forks / brakes / body armour / etc?

Most of us will never really test the grip limits of a tyre - our relatively poor technique will generally mean that we fail to extract the maximum. Same with frames etc. But if you can get 75% of the maximum then that will still be different from one tyre to another. Then there's the confidence factor - if you're not confident in tyres suspension brakes etc you'll approach trail features differently. So even if you're not getting every last drop of performance out of them you'll still ride better if you believe they are better.

“it’s all about your local riding conditions – assuming you’re riding locally that is. As a Dark Peak-based person…”

When it comes to trail riding I’d say there’s basically three types, and they’re very much driven by location:

If you ride somewhere with bigger rockier hills or mountains you can go on an XC ride and still have lots of interesting MTBing that benefit from bigger bikes, rather than XC bikes.

Or you might ride trail centres.

Or you might ride the cheeky trails found in the woods all over Britain, which vary hugely in terrain and dirt but tend to be more of a case of pedalling up a fire road (or pushing up if it’s steeper) and then coming down the trails fast, and riding them fast involves cornering as well as you can. (And they’re not armoured berms, they’re a mix of flat dirt and whatever berms someone has bashed into shape with a spade in their spare time).

This third case is what I ride most of the time. And lighter casing versions of downhill tyres are what work best if I want to go down them fast - yes a better rider will get more grip out of a quicker rolling tyre but I know whenever I try a more XC tyre I miss the cornering (and on the steeper stuff, braking) grip of something with big side and centre knobs.

Send me out across some big hills where I’m not “smashing turns” and more on rock than loose dirt or mud interspersed with wet sniper roots and I’m sure I’d pick something that rolls faster. Or send me to a trail centre with its grippier well-draining surfaces and berms and I’d be in far less need of cornering grip.

And with any of these, if you’re timing a lap of up and down then you always save more time on the ups with a faster tyre than you save on the downs with a grippy one - but for many of us it’s about the fun (and speed) downhill and we won’t notice it taking a bit longer to get back to the top of the hill.

Problem for many of us is that 3 rides will often be 3 completely different ones. As the cases above i could be local on Weds, FoD on Fri and Dyfi on Sat... ideally you'd argue you want different rubber for all 3 rides if being really picky about it.

ideally you’d argue you want different rubber for all 3 rides if being really picky about it.

Are you Benji's brother?

---lol emoji---

Most of us will never really test the grip limits of a tyre – our relatively poor technique will generally mean that we fail to extract the maximum.

I'm sure we've all slid the front wheel in a corner, locked up under braking, or spun the rear on a slippery or technical climb. Yes all can be attributed to poor technique that would be avoided by a more skilled rider but all are exceeding the limit of the tyre.

Learning the limit of your tyre and riding within them is part of the fun of it. This can be entirely subconscious, or as spreadsheet nerdy as you want. You could be changing tyres weekly or run the same set for a year and replace with an identical pair.

Conditions vary massively - I did the FOD Mini Enduro yesterday and I don’t think I’ve ever ridden trails as churned up as that. It had been a very wet week so I went with a T7 Hillbilly 29x2.6 grid trail up front and a Conti Kryptotal enduro / soft 29x2.4” rear. Glad I did as anything else I own would have been a shocker I think. I caught the guy in front of me on one run - he was all over the place - Magic Mary upfront and maybe a slightly worn Magic Mary on the rear. Not a clue on casing / compound as everything was caked in mud all day.

Maybe I could have run an even more grippy rear (Argotal?) but what I had worked about as well as it could I reckon. At times you were entering corners kind of locked up the wrong way (opposite lock) and drifting round to the correct way - which was pretty fun - you could rely on the hillbilly to grip and turn mostly as it was biting through all the slop.

"you always save more time on the ups with a faster tyre than you save on the downs with a grippy one"

I'm not sure why I wrote that considering yesterday my rear tyre wasn't bad downhill but was struggling to find the traction uphill in the muddiest bits! That's why I'm thinking I'll have to swap it to something with taller and less ramped tread (Eliminator to Butcher) and the Butcher's side knobs have a bit more space and the centre knobs corner better too (in those moments where the bike's not leant enough), so I'll have a downhill gain as well as an uphill one on the muddier days.

I’m not sure why I wrote that considering yesterday my rear tyre wasn’t bad downhill but was struggling to find the traction uphill in the muddiest bits! That’s why I’m thinking I’ll have to swap it to something with taller and less ramped tread (Eliminator to Butcher) and the Butcher’s side knobs have a bit more space and the centre knobs corner better too (in those moments where the bike’s not leant enough), so I’ll have a downhill gain as well as an uphill one on the muddier days.

You want one of those new WTB Judge things, I read somewhere - over there on the right actually - that they're maybe 'the perfect rear tyre for winter', plus they're a bargain at just 80 quid each and weigh only 1600g.

Swapped to Conti tyres this time last year, they are great from a mechanical traction point of view. But found them harsh, was running the DH casing as wanted the supersoft up front (and they only do that in a dh casing). Persevered for a while and then back to backed on maxxis. Bike felt more predictable and after so many years on maxxis, felt normal again. I'll try them again once they come out with the arogtal and krypto in the enduro casings, as that could be the ticket. For now, its High Roller 3 front and DHR back, maybe with swapping to HR3 back and wet scream up front.

"You want one of those new WTB Judge things, I read somewhere – over there on the right actually – that they’re maybe ‘the perfect rear tyre for winter’, plus they’re a bargain at just 80 quid each and weigh only 1600g."

Perfect for someone much quicker than me on much gnarlier trails!

DHR2 2.3 dual Exo, Butcher 2.3 T7 Grid, or DHR2 2.4 dual Exo are my already owned (and less than £40 each) choices...

Most of us will never really test the grip limits of a tyre

On any steep, greasy chute cris-crossed with roots and a couple of sharp turns thrown in for fun, even the average rider will overcome the grip of pretty much every front tyre there is. Trouble is, that 's precisely the point at which you need to trust it most, and it's just a matter of when not if...

I wondered iwth my low pressure FastTraks doing better on greasy chalk than mates running DHR or nobby nic was if it's a bit like an all season car tyre with more contact and sipes to give me more grip, whereas they are just getting contact on the top of the nobs and so just spinning out

Indeed I find compound as important as huge tread.

And I'm happy to trade some slippery fun down for more speed when I'm pedalling...ymmv