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Saw a pic of a singular on flickr (LordonOne's) with some dugast tubulars, aside from looking uber pimp what are the benefits of tubular wheels? If memory serves roadies use them because theyre lighter (could be wrong never been huge on dark side stuff) but are they like tubeless inasmuch as they [i]feel[/i] nicer too? From what ive seen they're prreeeeeeeetttty expensive so just curious.
One of the arguments in favour of them is on the track. As they are glued to the rim, if a puncture occurs then the tyre stays on the rim which is obviously safer. A regular tyre could roll off with the extreme cornering.
I don't think they are as popular on the road as they used to be but some still love them, citing a more supple feel than clinchers. Nightmare if you get a puncture obviously.
actually it was the punctures that made them more road race friendly you just whip the whole thing off in seconds and slap another one on
Rolling resistance and grip. They have a much more supple casing than standard tyres which means they roll much more smoothly and grip incredibly well for what they are. Ride feel is really very nice indeed. They aren't really [i]that[/i] much more expensive than high end 'normal' tyres. They aren't especially light, around 600g for the 29" ones as in that pic.
Punctures are a bugger as I found out at 24/12... I have some caffelatex sealant in them now which seems to be working a treat. The most noticeable thing with those wheels though is the stiffness of the rims. For a set of pure race wheels they are definitely very nice. Gluing them on is a pain, but I'm getting better at it...
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cheers sam, that ti frame is lovely too
i think a bit of sex wee came out
I [i]really[/i] need to find somewhere i can get a niner carbon fork for less than 300 notes 🙁
Sorry guys but some rubbish being talked...
Punctures? whipping them off? No.
They are stuck on with glue, so you peel them off carefully, then put your old spare on and ride very slowly and carefully back to the race HQ, otherwise you fall off on the first corner as the old tub rolls off..
..and rolling resistance? Go google, and you'll find that tubs have a higher rolling resistance than high end clinchers...
Mending a puncture involves cutting the stitches, finding the puncture, mending it, sewing the tyre back up, then re-gluing it.
I'm pretty sure a big benefit is that tubulars can be run at much higher pressures if you want ultra-high on the track.
..and rolling resistance? Go google, and you'll find that tubs have a higher rolling resistance than high end clinchers...
Those tests pertain to road tyres anyhow, and I think you'll find that the best results are from 'hard glued' (i.e. shellaced) tubulars. At least that's what I recall from the Jobst/Rinard tests I saw some years ago. The the best of my knowledge no tests have been done regarding off road tyres. Pretty much all pro 'cross racers are on tubs, and they are becoming increasingly more common on World Cup xc racers' bikes as well.
Mending a puncture involves cutting the stitches, finding the puncture, mending it, sewing the tyre back up, then re-gluing it.
Either that or just throw in some sealant and pump it back up - worked for me and haven't had any further flats since...
I'm not saying they're perfect or for everyone. I just wanted to give them a try and they do work well for the application.
Tubs are great to ride on. The ride beatifully but I'd say that they are strictly for road racing. I'm not sure about rolling resistance but they are marginally better road racing, more esp criterium racing, where they are best for hard cornering. I'm with Crikey though. They are a complete pain to get on/off (on road bikes) and I've never changed one quickly or not got covered in glue.
I don't use tubs any more. Too much of a pain really to bother. To reduce rolling resistance and get a similar feel to road tyres, I use latex inner tubes for road racing. I do wonder how much of the good feel of high quality tubs is due to the latex inners they use? If I was going down the tubs line I'd go for one of the new road tubeless tyres.
The tubs in fixie thing is pure posing.
Tubs for 'cross are used for the same kind of reasons as tubless mtb tyres. They can be run at comically low pressures for grip and low rolling resisitance, but without any fear of them rolling off the rim (as long as they are glued properly) as there is no inner tube, just a completely sealed tyre.
Also the same better 'feel' as tubeless.
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Found the rolling resistance tests I was talking about. Some interesting discussion on the links from there. The critical thing I guess to take from this (for mtb/offroad applications) being that at low pressures tubs are among the best performers. More crtically though, the tests are performed on a smooth steel drum. It would be interesting to see a test over variable terrain comparing tubed, tubeless and tubular tyres.
+ves
look great
lower profile
less rolling resistance
allows you to run higher pressure
more confidence on cornering
lighter weight
-ves
cost a bloody fortune
Difficult (and expensive) to repair
a faf to fit
oh and did i mention they're expensive?
I ran high-pressure 22mm tubs on my TT bike for the last two seasons and, TBH... I didn't notice a great deal of difference over clinchers. Only real difference is you can run tubs harder so there's less rubber in contact with the road and therefore less rolling resistance. Good quality tubs at the right pressure can (allegedly) start to 'zing' at some point, but I never felt it.
However... off-road:
I'm currently running some Dugast tubs (32mm) on my 'Cross bike and there is a WORLD of difference over similar-sized CX clinchers. Increased grip is the main factor. Obviously you can run them at lower pressures (I go <35psi rear, <30 front) which instantly give you a bigger footprint. Sure, running them soft means you feel the rim a few times as you're hammering round, but it doesn't matter - you're not going to pinch-flat. If you run the tubs at too high a pressure, you lose their benefits and may as well be using clinchers.
Also the sidewalls are 'made of magic' (I can't do the science or explain it). At low pressure they enable you to corner and lean the bike at unfeasible angles. This season I've been lapping faster as the race goes on because I take corners faster and faster. Each time you approach a bend you scrub off less speed than last time thinking "I can't possibly take this corner this fast.... Oh wait... yes I can... I'll try it faster next time". Repeat. Repeat.
Had to switch to spare bike (with clinchers) during a couple of races this year and, by comparison, I was all over the place having 'got my eye in' on tubs. Think Bambi on ice.
Tubs are ace but I wouldn't use them for anything over a 25. 170psi in a road tyre is the way forward 🙂
cheers guys this thread is going well, interesting to see that even for such a well established component there is a lack (for mtb) of quantative info but those that use them off road really feel the benefit. Won't be on my shopping list for a very long time if ever but keep the replies coming
is no inner tube, just a completely sealed tyre.
Other than Tufo they do still have a (latex) inner tube.
Sam, are those 29er wheels with tubs? Can't imagine you using 26" 🙂
epicyclo - MemberSam, are those 29er wheels with tubs?
Yep - well closer to 28 really, 700x45.
where do you get them from out of interest? are they the same ones on that lovely cross bike prototype?
crikey - Member
Sorry guys but some rubbish being talked...Punctures? whipping them off? No.
They are stuck on with glue, so you peel them off carefully, then put your old spare on and ride very slowly and carefully back to the race HQ, otherwise you fall off on the first corner as the old tub rolls off..
stuck on with glue, or tub tape. It takes all of 10 seconds to remove a tub. (ime) And not very long to pop one back on. (about a minute or two, ime).
other than that, i would say they are nicer to ride, wheels come up lighter (on the road anyway). and better grip.
Run a tub at 150 psi, and stand clear when it goes pop. It's the most sickening thing you can hear. One of my tubs blew out as the man was counting me down in the Nat 25 Champs one year. 5, 4, bang, shit, 2, 1, go. Technically I got a DNF, because I presented myself on the start line, and that's always better than a DNS. But it was a bloody long way to High Wycombe just to get a puncture.
My boss got road rash from his ankle to shoulders when his 'tub' came unstuck descending on a roadie giro thing. Sounds like he didn't glue it properly, but he blamed the heat.
Can't imagine how you'd glue these things back on in a muddy mtb race.
but he blamed the heat
Quite probably true. On a hot day, with sustained braking downhill the glue can give way. Tub off rim, rider off bike. Well known event.
Yowsers. Well it certainly didn't help his time, that's for sure 🙂
as said, it is known in the heat.
tufo make glue specially for high heat countries!
My boss got road rash from his ankle to shoulders when his 'tub' came unstuck descending on a roadie giro thing. Sounds like he didn't glue it properly, but he blamed the heat.
As above, but it's not due to atmospheric heat but the rims getting hot under braking. Another good reason for disc brakes on road bikes 🙂
Can't imagine how you'd glue these things back on in a muddy mtb race.
True, not really possible. Speaking to Richard at Dugast (which is where I get them Dave) they've had the Swisspower team on them for the past few years and he reckons they only get one or two punctures a season. Guess I was just unlucky and/or significantly heavier/less smooth riding than a pro 😉 . I'm feeling a lot more confident riding them with sealant in that's for sure.
I was oggling that lovely Swift at the Cycle Show; very, very nice bike. Love the forks. Sweet.