[Closed] Tubeless?? Why would I change?? Other guys in the club have done

I had my first tubeless problem yesterday, after about 2.5 years of running it that’s not bad in my book and it was all down to me rather than the kit, I’d let the sealant dry so I had a lump of latex cottage cheese and a 3mmish hole in the tyre when we arrived at Afan yesterday, the hole had obviously occurred on a previous ride and was partially sealed but I didn’t fancy riding with a holed and almost sealant free tyre, so I whacked a tube in, see that’s the major advantage, you can always put a tube in I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry at last one spare tube, so it’s not like you’ll be stuck in the arse end of nowhere with a flat, it’ll either seal itself or worst case for an “on the trail fail” it’s not really any different to a tube going, in that you’ll still need to just put a tube in to get you home, it’s no more difficult...

Tubeless isn’t perfect but then neither is running tubes, the weight saving thing is a bit of a myth, maybe if you’re running heavy dual ply tyres and thick tubes to avoid flats then a thinner walled lighter tubeless tyre and a couple of Oz of sealant may save you some weight and still be as resistant to flats, but there isn’t really any major weight saving to be had from tubeless if you’re already running sensible tyres…

The Feel/Traction/smoother ride/better grip claims are debatable (I think it is marginally better myself) given the absence of a tube you have a thinner wall which deforms more easily and a slightly larger volume in any given tyre when run tubeless rather than tubed, thus there is marginally more give in the tyre improving traction and absorbing trail buzz and hits a bit better, in theory at least…
But don’t run silly low pressures, sensible pressures should give you a good ride and grip, run it at sub 20psi if you want but it will just be draggy and eventually roll off the rim just like a tubed tyre would if you did the same…

I will concede it requires more maintenance than a tube, in that you will need to periodically check and top up/replace the sealant (which I really should have done over the weekend) and you’ll want to keep an eye on pressures between rides just to be sure everything is OK, ideally investing in a proper compressor makes life with tubeless far less bothersome, but it also means that puffing up tyres my other bikes which have tubes is a damn sight quicker too so win win really…

You will notice the benefit if you ride rocks and roots a lot and get pinch flats as a result, you’ll notice the benefits if you tend to catch thorns as any half decent sealant will seal those holes too, I’ve tried slime filled tubes and ultimately found them to be shite and heavy tubeless, even “Ghetto” pisses all over that particular “Solution”…

If you just ride tow paths and tarmac then don’t bother, just get a good high TPI tyre and pump it up rock hard…

see that’s the major advantage, you can always put a tube in I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry at last one spare tube

I don't.

Call me weird but when I got my 823 rims I actually read the bits of paper that came with them. They detailed the technique for getting the tyres off without levers so I practised a few times when I should have been working. It worked and I've never used a lever since on any tyre.

Huh? You said that UST tyres were designed to be removed without levers. That's not true, but as there's a risk that you could damage the tyre bead with levers, they tell you the proper way to remove tyres. This works on non-UST tyres too, which are usually far looser than UST tyres.

Huh? You said that UST tyres were designed to be removed without levers. That's not true,

Mavic UST have a deeper trench in the middle to fit and remove tyres without levers. This wasn't put there by accident. I no longer have my handy bits of paper to hand but that's what they claimed IIRC. If you disagree so strongly and it really matters to you I'll try and find the info for you.

been messing around with tubeless again, but can never get the bloody tyres to seat.

for me, 'going tubeless' means 'not riding'

I had my first bad experience of tubeless last week. Was on a run up Carron Valley, came down a rocky decent and "BANG......TSSSSSSSS!!" I had blew a hole about half an inch wide on a sharp rock. There was no way Joe's was filling it. Tried to get the valve out of my Mavic 819's, to put in a tube and it was solid (and still is) Had to carry the bike down the rest of the train. Was not in the least bit amused. Now going to order some of the screw in stans valves from Merlin to see if I can stop this from happening again. Regardless of being tubeless I still always carry a tube, as I said there is a limit to what any of the tubeless solutions can fill.

As for comments re needing a compressor I only use one the first time I put a new tyre on. The rest of the time fit the tyre as got round the outside of the tyre and pop it into the groove. Once you see most of the gaps are filled between the rim and the tyre pump like mad and it will go up. If you are using a track pump it is even easier. you do sometime need to rotate the rim to let the stans/joes etc fill any small gaps.

One other piece of advise, use UST tyres. I found that non UST Spesh tyres were quickly annihilated the outside rim. I use Panaracer and Mavic's tubeless and had no problems.

To be fair, a stone nasty enough to make a 1/2 inch tear could well have taken out a tube if it was in there too. I carry a tube and a tyre boot with me as I did when riding tubed but in the year since going tubless, I have not had to use them. Stans (flow & 355) with yellow tape and maxxis lust and Bonty tubless ready tyres here and always blown up from the 1st stroke of my track pump. I was running my rear a little soft the other day and cocked up a landing to flat and felt the familiar thud of the rim bottoming out. Forgetting I was tubless I was already slowing down anticipating a pinch flat when the grey cells kicked in and remembered I was probably fine - happy days!

The only negative (and it's a small one) I have found is if you are a serial tyre changer and faffer for the conditions the process is a bit messy with sealant sloshing around.

i`m in 2 minds about tubeless.

1) its a ball ache to install.
2) its a ballache to swap tyres.
3) you defo need a compressor OR add loads of weight to your wheels by putting loads of tape on the rims.
4) its more expensive than a tube.
5) you HAVE to run higher tyre pressures. 20-25psi on a tubless tyre = burps and ripped tyres

benefits.

1) less thorny punctures
2) lighter weight tyres can be used

i think i like it as it allows me to run lighter tyres.

took me 3 attempts to get a set of tyres running good tubeless. had 2 blowouts (UST Tyres) and 2 ripped tyres (1 ust, 1 non ust).

Me and the Mrs went tubeless after 6 thorn punctures in less than a mile and not had another since started with a Stans kit on pro2 717s with intense non tubeless tyres which was ok but a bit faffy but since got some crossmax st's and some bonty acx tubeless ready tyres and they feel much stiffer and lighter and the ust rims are a doddle to fit tyres on

normally run 2bar in most tyres.

with tubeless ran 2.75 bar but all the grip of 2 bar but with the rolling resistance of 2.75.

puntured the casings and never bothered converting them again. may well do when it comes to winter tyres.

Still not convinced by tubeless despite the "benefits."

I run my tyres hard - 50+ PSI - I very rarely get punctures.
I have never had a pinch flat
My tyres weigh 410g, my tubes weigh 100g (tried 50g Supersonics but they are hopeless) - most tubeless tyres with sealant seem to weight much more yet everyone says tubeless is lighter.
I swap tyres quite often.

What am I missing?!

1) its a ball ache to install.
2) its a ballache to swap tyres.
3) you defo need a compressor OR add loads of weight to your wheels by putting loads of tape on the rims.
4) its more expensive than a tube.
5) you HAVE to run higher tyre pressures. 20-25psi on a tubless tyre = burps and ripped tyres

1. Not that bad to install, once you get used to it, its fairly quick. And you get so few punctures and its so reliable, its like saying you'd rather have a mud shack instead of a house as its easier to set up.

2. Again, once you're used to it, its like a 2-3 minute job changing tyres.

3. I've set it up on 5 different sets of wheels now. Never used a compressor, and have either used a rim strip, which weigh like nothing, or about two layers of tape, which again, weigh nothing.

4. Ghetto or gorilla are just as cheap/cheaper. If you've bought tubeless rims (I'd be running stans rims even if I weren't running tubeless - they're fantastic), then its the cost of a bit of sealant, some tape, and a valve. Maybe a couple of quid more expensive.

5. I've run lower then 20psi in the Alps and Wales and I've never burped. Or ripped.

I still burp dual plys at 30psi on a UST rim on the front, couldn't ever get rear tubeless to work at any useable pressure. tubeless only works well for mincers IME

GW....WTF!

nickegg - Member
GW....WTF!

+1

WTF?

pretty self explanatory I'd have thought!

genuine question - do any of the world cup downhillers use tubless?

No not really

I tried tubeless using Bonty wheels, Schwalbe tubes, pain in the ass to fit & didn't notice any difference (using stans fluid)
Also tried Stans conversion on DT4.2's with Nobby Nics, eventually sat on the rim & sealed, but not 100% convinced.
Reverted back to xxlite tubes-95g each & no problems with running narrow mud tyres either, which I can't do tubeless.

1. Not that bad to install, once you get used to it, its fairly quick. And you get so few punctures and its so reliable, its like saying you'd rather have a mud shack instead of a house as its easier to set up.

2. Again, once you're used to it, its like a 2-3 minute job changing tyres.

3. I've set it up on 5 different sets of wheels now. Never used a compressor, and have either used a rim strip, which weigh like nothing, or about two layers of tape, which again, weigh nothing.

4. Ghetto or gorilla are just as cheap/cheaper. If you've bought tubeless rims (I'd be running stans rims even if I weren't running tubeless - they're fantastic), then its the cost of a bit of sealant, some tape, and a valve. Maybe a couple of quid more expensive.

5. I've run lower then 20psi in the Alps and Wales and I've never burped. Or ripped.

1. No. Its 100% definatly more faff than bunging in tube. Ive persevered with tubless despite setbacks but its still not as convenient.

2. ha ha ha. No way 2 mins a tyre. perhaps if you are using UST rims and tyres. Never for Ghetto. maybe 2 mins for a tube. i'm still running a front mud tyre as i cant face the faff of swapping it.

3. some tyres/rims are easier to seal some just dont. they all take tubes though and you dont have to get messy finding that out.

4. no. a tube costs £4. replacement ghetto rimstrip costs £4 plus latex. i've not re-used a ghetto rimstrip successfully yet but i admit i'm still learning and have ideas which may help in future!

5. lucky you! i`m with GW. in my experience you have to run higher pressures or mince about.

GW goes big compared to a great many of us though.

So unless 'you go big' you're considered a mincer....okay.

I don't go big!

On nights out I used to go big early to avoid the rush.

I've been running mavic crossmax UST tubeless for years now, with Bontrager super juice. Much better system then inner tubes IMO.

Just waiting for my Nobby Nic's and stans no tubes to arrive today.

On the ease of changing tyres - a pal of mine got a flat in his tubeless running without sealant - dunno what system ( I think UST). I broke a tyre lever getting the tyre off - and I do know how to change tyres. It was the tightest tyre / rim combo I have seen

I think the key thing is puncture resistance. If you get loads of puncture 'cos where you ride is hawthorn hedging or whatever than tubeless would be good. if like me puncturing is a rare issue and I also like to change tyres a lot then tubes are so much easier.

TJ - did you try and help blindfolded? if not, it would have been clear what system it was and if doing it properly you shouldn't have needed a tyre lever, nevermind broken one.

[i]I had my first bad experience of tubeless last week. Was on a run up Carron Valley, came down a rocky decent and "BANG......TSSSSSSSS!!" I had blew a hole about half an inch wide on a sharp rock. There was no way Joe's was filling it. Tried to get the valve out of my Mavic 819's, to put in a tube and it was solid (and still is) Had to carry the bike down the rest of the train. Was not in the least bit amused. Now going to order some of the screw in stans valves from Merlin to see if I can stop this from happening again. Regardless of being tubeless I still always carry a tube, as I said there is a limit to what any of the tubeless solutions can fill.[/i]

tbh I always carry a plier-type multitool

TJ: I'd be surprised if it was UST as IME UST is the only tyre/rim combo i've managed to get on/off without levers.

GW - Member

TJ - did you try and help blindfolded? if not, it would have been clear what system it was and if doing it properly you shouldn't have needed a tyre lever, nevermind broken one.

I assure you GW that I do know how to change tyres. 4 of us were there and tried and none could get the tyres off. They simply were too tight on the rim and not enough slack was available even with the bead in the well and so on.

Not tried getto but i do have XT tubeless wheels and have used a whole variety of tubeless tyres and all have worked perfectly, easy to get on and not too bad to remove, they have sealed first time (with a track pump) so absolutly no faff. The main benefit is no freekin flats....to be fair i dont pick up that many off road but on the commute oh my god it was at least one or two a week sometimes more....i swear the council deliberatly drop thorny branch cut offs in my path..swines. since i went tubeless a year ago the only time i've flatted was a 4" nail through the wheel and i let the latex dry out once appart from that it's been two years riding with no flats...god bless stans i say.

TJ - UST is mavic's acronym for their tubeless rim system and carrys a "UST" logo, their rims are instantly recognisable from the nipple inserts. UST rims are a piece of piss to get tryes on and off.

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most other systems use a rim strip - it'd prob have been the extra material of the rim strip that caused you greif getting the tyre off - you might have noticed it if you'd been able to get the tyre off 😛

Cheers GW.

I run Stan's ZTR Flow rims, Roval tubeless rim tape, Stan's valve cores and Specialized 2-bliss tubeless ready tires (Fast Trak, Eskar, Purgatory, Captain, Clutch SX) with 2.5 cups of Stan's Solution

super easy to install (5 mins a tire), inflates every time with track pump and no detergent, no tire roll or burping, have regularly changed tires, never found it an issue...

no problems really? and the performance gains are very noticeable, both in terms of ride feel / traction, and lack of punctures / pinch flats

but I can understand trying to set it up on random rims and tires which are not designed for tubeless, or doing ghetto setups, can make people give up with tubeless?