[Closed] Tubeless?? Why would I change?? Other guys in the club have done

Great on the back, especially. You can rattle down rocky descents with a vastly reduced risk of a snakebite.

Also if you're plagued with thorns where you ride.

Hi BigJohn. I have never run tubeless always Slime tyres with Panaracers, never had a flat no matter where I ride (touch wood) so I really am struggling to see any gain - though the club boys bang on about how good they are

I don't notice any difference other than the snakebite thing.

Slime tubes are pretty heavy... so you'll see the same benefits, but lighter, which can only be a good thing? 🙂

Better traction with tubeless apparently, I noticed a difference when I made the change about 6 years ago would never go back to tubes now as used to hate having to carry one and then change it whilst riding. Never had a puncture since running tubeless but do so with Joes No Flats or similar. If you want to do it to remove the puncture problem then its worth it, there are other benefits too from my exp.

It's also like having a little bit more suspension, tyres at the same pressure will have a little more "give" in them over lumps and bumps making fora smoother ride.

Given how cheap ghetto tubeless is I'm convinced. I did it on one bike just to give me something to do out in the garden fettling with bikes, but I've since done it on two bikes and one unicycle - 'tis a much better overall experience than tubes imho.

anyone selling a rear hope/tubeless wheel?
I've got a tubeless front wheel and I don't know if its my mental state or the wheel but my last ride on it was bloody fun.

Cheers fellas, I'll give them ago .. but they are wheel specific , yes?? So I will need either a conversion kit or new wheels??? I prob go for wheels anyones I should take a look at????

A

Given how cheap ghetto tubeless is I'm convinced

Take me a minute to fit a tube. Looked at the vids for the Stan's stuff and decided that it looked like way too much faff. €4 for a spare tube to go in the backpack sounds like a better deal to me. Sods law - I'll probably get my 1st flat in over 1000km now.

What wheels do you have now? May make a difference.

Tubeless is a bit overhyped IMO, for a lot of people anyway... If you constantly get flats then that's more of a benefit but I'd say that for most folks flats are a rare irritation. Still nice to get rid of that, though of course you can still rip a tubeless tyre. But, I think there's a lot of waffle on the subject. I can't tell any difference in traction, rolling resistance or "suppleness", perhaps there's a difference but comparing 100g of sealant with 100g of tube I can't feel it.

And an awful lot of people who'll tell you it's lighter have never actually done the maths, my proper tubeless (on stans and traversees) is lighter than a tube, but my ghetto tubeless wasn't. Most times people make comparisons with cheap or DH tubes so you hear "My ghetto tubeless is only 200g, that's half as much as a tube". Or twice as much if you use light tubes.

"What like 10x the price of a tube?"

How do you figure that? Ghetto tubeless means buying a BMX tube and a tub of sealant, and possibly a roll of electric tape. A pint of sealant does 4-5 tyres (doing ghetto you'll want a little more than normal in my experience) so that's £2 a go for sealant. £2 for a tesco BMX tube. 50p for tape.

Not that I recommend it, I was never happy with it on my 717s, but some do.

I've had no punctures since going tubeless using UST rims and UST/TLR/LUST/etc tyres and stans sealant, thats a good enough reason for me.

Tried tubless for a while cos i started riding harder and therefore more punctures (snake bites).It was great but being a novice with them i pulled a thorn out my tyre and it went down - durr brain i know! Only problem is we dont have a compressor so have to go to friends to pump them up. Back to using innertubes now 🙁

How much are compressors, anyone know where i can get a cheap one from?

If you constantly get flats then that's more of a benefit but I'd say that for most folks flats are a rare irritation

I'd have to agree 100% with Northwind on the first part of that.... and disagree 150% with the second part (from a personal perspective).

I guess I'm just clumbsy but I'd more often than not pick up a pinch flat on each and every rocky downhill before I went tubeless. None since. 😀
Only downside is tearing sidewalls instead of pinch flatting so I've now gone for a heavier UST on the back (formerly standard single ply).
I wouldn't profess to notice any difference in use due to tubeless. I just don't have the pinchflat problem any more.

No punctures in 4 years. Never had a problem with them, easy to inflate, just refresh the fluid every 6 months or so - Running Mavic 819's and UST tyres. Really can't understand why some folks have issues (ok they are trying the 'ghetto' way) They are pretty much fit and forget

I went tubeless via the Stans route with my 719 fims and Schwable Nobbby Nick tyres

First ride out and I had a 1" gash to the sidewall the sealant did slow the air comming out, so I did not suffer a blow out, but back to a tube to get me home

I think the main reason to change, and probably the best, is to give people something to talk about whn not riding! I changed because i was bored!

I fitted UST Nobby Nics to Flow rims and it is the best upgrade I have ever made. Better tyre profile and grip has meant the biggest improvement to my downhill skills ever. Just fitted a shiny pair of 2.2 tubeless Rubber Queens - can't wait to try them.

I ghettoed the nevs that came with my bike to overcome frequent puncturing. When it works it works well. Can be frustrating to do tho.

How much are compressors, anyone know where i can get a cheap one from?

CO2 cannisters work just as well and are a fraction of the cost.

I've been running ghetto for a while now after getting 3 snake bites on a single ride. Not had a one since running 30-35 psi and plowing down whatever rocky descents are put in front of me on my hardtail.

Slime tyres with Panaracers

Was always tube man. New bike was tubeless so went with the flow. 6 months on would I have changed to tubeless knowing what I know now? Answer yes. And I also know I would not go ghetto or any other half arsed bodge tubeless.

Advantages? Well most would not go back to tubes. Low pressure, great rolling extra grip and banish punctures?

I've really rated the ghetto setup (tesco BMX tubes/Stans)on my 717's, you need to you can run much lower psi than with tubes.
Not tried a welsh trail centre yet where I've had had snake bites running with tubes but in theory it should be good.

Thanks for the advice all, I think I'll give them ago, anyone recommend a new boy set of wheels and tyres?? mainly XC riding with some limited technical stuff ia my style.

Cheers

The stans rims on Hope Hoops are great. I like the Flow for it's wide platform and reasonable weight. Other will suggest the 355 as being strong enough and lighter weight but I think the Flow feels more stable in hard corners. For tyres, I'm liking the Maxxis ADvantage UST for general stuff. However, they are really sensitive to pressure. I hated them until I realised I had to drop below 30psi for both and I weight over 200 lbs fully kitted up.

Many varients, but the safe and simple approach - XM819 rims and UST tyres with 50ml of Stans latex in each.

I don't think tubeless is over-hyped.

There are alot of different ways to do it, and its something that many people don't seem to understand terribly well, since many of the issues - side wall robustness, bead lock, air burping, carcass flexibility, etc... are totally new concepts and don't really get a look in when using tubes.

All of this results in alot of discussion, which could be interpreted as hype, but isn't really.

It also results in just about every possible positive and negative experience going, since its likely that only a few of us are doing it in the same way, with the same kit, same techniques and same riding styles.

I've had three punctures in 7 years - all which would have been no better had I been running a tube. I'm sold on tubeless and don't even carry inner tubes any more - my repair kit is entirely focussed on fixing tubeless tyres.

I have rolled a couple of tyres off the rim, but I'm trying non-tubeless tyres on stans rims without any rims strips, so I'm really pushing the limits of what's safely doable really. There are so many tyres on the market, its nearly a constant rolling programme of R&D!

Why would you change? If you're happy with tubes, I can't see you would. Tubeless is either for those that must have the latest thing, those that are convinced it does have benefits over tubes and those that are curious to see if it does have those benefits.

I'm running ghetto tubeless on my hardtail and very pleased with the results. One puncture in eight months, repaired without even taking the wheel off.

Perhaps on full suss it isn't noticable, but with large volume tyres I can definitely feel the extra cushioning from my tubless rear tyre. I'm running 719 rims with Bonty big earl wets. Rider weight 15 stone with kit, camelbak.

Just last week I was in Torridon when a tubeless UST tyre decided not to seal a puncture. A bit crap when it was such a struggle to get the tyre off to fit a tube, while the rest of the party hung about bored.

I've been keeping an eye on tubeless on pals bikes for a while, and I've seen enough to know that it's not for me. An extra minute fixing a failed tubeless on a Scottish hill track in bad weather is unpleasant.

Tubeless is the way forward.

Had a couple of punctures mid race, runnign tubeless results in the boy behind gettind sprayed with latex for a bit before the hole seals, lose a small amoubt of pressure but nothing major. If was running tubes that would have been a stop to put in a tube.

Less hassle, all you need to do is top up the fluid periodically. Run them on all my bikes now. Expensive - try ghetto tubless, works exactly the same

Just last week I was in Torridon when a tubeless UST tyre decided not to seal a puncture. A bit crap when it was such a struggle to get the tyre off to fit a tube, while the rest of the party hung about bored.

Putting a tube in a UST tyre is exactly the same as a normal tyre. Sounds like you need to brush up on your skills. UST system is a piece of cake. Ghetto is a faff initially but easy once you are used to it. Both are worth it IMNSHO!

No justifiable reason IMHO. I tried a Joes tubless kit last year, front worked well, but on the first ride out the rear tyre blew off the rim twice. Sorted it once with a CO2, but second time I put a tube in, and it has been there ever since.

Now get worried riding off road that the front will just blow off randomly and cause me to face plant/die.

If I had the money (I don't currently) then I'd get a proper tubless UST set up ahead of a ghetto/tubless kit a la Joes or Stans.

See, missing frontal lobe is a classic example of what I'm talking about. - Tubeless is rubbish because my tyre blew off the rim.

He doesn't (at least here) consider that the tyre bead may have been too slack, or he may have run it under inflated, or the bead interlock between his rim and tyre may not have been good enough.

In order for him to put any of those issues to bed he would have had to, potentially, tried different tyres or rims and repeated the faff everytime he changed something - costly and a pain in the arse, especially if undertaken with little critical thought on what the difficulties are.

Its easy to see why people are put off.

IMO he's drawn the right conclusion though - A decent bead interlock is key and this is best achieved through a UST/LUST/2bliss/TLR bead, and a rim thats designed to grip the bead - again, UST or Stans (there must be others now too).

If you don't get punctures and have no trouble keeping up with your mates why would you bother to change anything?

Tubless is great when riding but it is a faff to get set up to begin with. If you don't use UST tyres it's also a bit of a lottery as to what will seal and what won't. I've had tyres blow off the rim while others from the same manufacturer have been trouble free.

I am quite a fan of tubeless and have tried the ghetto method which worked but was a faff but have now settled for the Bontrager rim strips/valves. These have worked really well on Bonti wheels(obviously) and on WTB laserthings (both 19mm width - My 17mm wheels would not take the strip others might)
They give your rim the UST profile that makes inflation V easy and sopports the bead against the rim - even when fully deflated.
Bonti and Conti tyres were used.

In order for him to put any of those issues to bed he would have had to, potentially, tried different tyres or rims and repeated the faff everytime he changed something - costly and a pain in the arse, especially if undertaken with little critical thought on what the difficulties are

Science officer (is there a Spock missing from that?) is quite right, IMHO for tubeless to work it has to be done in either a ££££'s not a problem rim/tyre/rebuild every few weeks way, or a £££££'s not a problem UST rim/wheel/tyre combo.

Might still try a different tyre on the rear and see if I can get the faffing set up to work, but not that arsed really. Bike rides fine with a tube in, so it'll take some time before I move on. Rims are even disc specific rims so won't even have the excuse of a worn out braking surface to change rims in the near future.

Named for my slightly scientific education and outlook compared to some of my more 'artistic' riding buddies.

Nothing to do with Star trek, sadly. That would be much cooler.

Devs, it wasn't me with the puncture, and UST tyres are tighter on rims.

If you don't get punctures and have no trouble keeping up with your mates why would you bother to change anything?

+1

If you don't see the point, and have no problems with your current set up, why change?

I'm a definite convert, I have about 5 sets of tyres that I know will all inflate and seal with a track pump first time, I can run them all very low if I want and get tonnes of grip, I've had hardly any punctures, think it's about 3 in 8 years of tubeless (first UST, then Stan's), of which at least 2 just required the tyre to be re-inflated.

UST or Stans (there must be others now too)

Bonty wheels (Rhythm Elites) with Maxxis tyres are working well for me (finally went for it!)

Only minor irritation is the valves which don't seat very securely so tend to leak air as you pump them (hard not to jiggle them about). Not helped by the asymmetrical rims (the locknuts don't lock properly).

They've stayed up the rest of the time though.

I did it to get rid of irritating pinch flats, and for me it honestly was like night and day grip-wise, you can run sensible pressures, yet the bike seems to almost pedal itself on the flat, and pinches are impossible, you may get a burp, in which case you just top it up with more air. If you rip the tyre in half on a stone, bang a sweet wrapper in the carcass, bung a tube in and the gunk will seal everything up to get you home.

Ghetto is a complete ball-ache to set up though. It is just about worth it, but it is a complete faff. When I went to re-ghetto the wheels on my race bike, I could not get them to re-inflate, and my CO2 jobbie had broken, so i had to run tubes for the bristol bikefest ...

I could not believe just how much more skittish, skippy and hard to handle my bike was running tubes. It wasn't entirely down to the forks, the back end was all over the shop, I seemingly couldn't keep it on the deck. thats all down to the fact I had to run 40psi in the front and 50psi in the back. I was the only rider out of 4 teams not to pinch flat, but it was only due to running stupidly high pressures. Last year on ghetto it was 100% better and still no pinches.

So yeah, go tubeless properly.

Devs, it wasn't me with the puncture, and UST tyres are tighter on rims.

UST rims are designed so that you never have to use levers. They are tighter if you don't do it properly but as I said, a wee brush up on skills is required there by your pal.

Hmmm... that's not strictly true. Using levers can damage the bead, but as you've said, they're tighter than normal tyres, they weren't 'designed' to be easy to remove without levers. The technique to remove them is exactly the same as a tubed tyre, just a lot of people have never learned how to do that either!

If you can remove a UST tyre by hand, you can do virtually any tubed tyre too.

UST beads are definitely closer, but I've yet to resort to levers for them.

The technique to remove them is exactly the same as a tubed tyre, just a lot of people have never learned how to do that either!

+1

For the benefit of those people: work the bead off the hook and into the well in the centre *all the way around the tyre*.

This give some slack in the bead which will now pop over the rim much more easily.

Call me weird but when I got my 823 rims I actually read the bits of paper that came with them. They detailed the technique for getting the tyres off without levers so I practised a few times when I should have been working. It worked and I've never used a lever since on any tyre. Ghetto systems can make it tougher but not needed to resort to levers with them yet either although I am a bit of a big ham fisted grunt who's good at that kind of stuff!

I had my first tubeless problem yesterday, after about 2.5 years of running it that’s not bad in my book and it was all down to me rather than the kit, I’d let the sealant dry so I had a lump of latex cottage cheese and a 3mmish hole in the tyre when we arrived at Afan yesterday, the hole had obviously occurred on a previous ride and was partially sealed but I didn’t fancy riding with a holed and almost sealant free tyre, so I whacked a tube in, see that’s the major advantage, you can always put a tube in I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry at last one spare tube, so it’s not like you’ll be stuck in the arse end of nowhere with a flat, it’ll either seal itself or worst case for an “on the trail fail” it’s not really any different to a tube going, in that you’ll still need to just put a tube in to get you home, it’s no more difficult...

Tubeless isn’t perfect but then neither is running tubes, the weight saving thing is a bit of a myth, maybe if you’re running heavy dual ply tyres and thick tubes to avoid flats then a thinner walled lighter tubeless tyre and a couple of Oz of sealant may save you some weight and still be as resistant to flats, but there isn’t really any major weight saving to be had from tubeless if you’re already running sensible tyres…

The Feel/Traction/smoother ride/better grip claims are debatable (I think it is marginally better myself) given the absence of a tube you have a thinner wall which deforms more easily and a slightly larger volume in any given tyre when run tubeless rather than tubed, thus there is marginally more give in the tyre improving traction and absorbing trail buzz and hits a bit better, in theory at least…
But don’t run silly low pressures, sensible pressures should give you a good ride and grip, run it at sub 20psi if you want but it will just be draggy and eventually roll off the rim just like a tubed tyre would if you did the same…

I will concede it requires more maintenance than a tube, in that you will need to periodically check and top up/replace the sealant (which I really should have done over the weekend) and you’ll want to keep an eye on pressures between rides just to be sure everything is OK, ideally investing in a proper compressor makes life with tubeless far less bothersome, but it also means that puffing up tyres my other bikes which have tubes is a damn sight quicker too so win win really…

You will notice the benefit if you ride rocks and roots a lot and get pinch flats as a result, you’ll notice the benefits if you tend to catch thorns as any half decent sealant will seal those holes too, I’ve tried slime filled tubes and ultimately found them to be shite and heavy tubeless, even “Ghetto” pisses all over that particular “Solution”…

If you just ride tow paths and tarmac then don’t bother, just get a good high TPI tyre and pump it up rock hard…

see that’s the major advantage, you can always put a tube in I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry at last one spare tube

I don't.

Call me weird but when I got my 823 rims I actually read the bits of paper that came with them. They detailed the technique for getting the tyres off without levers so I practised a few times when I should have been working. It worked and I've never used a lever since on any tyre.

Huh? You said that UST tyres were designed to be removed without levers. That's not true, but as there's a risk that you could damage the tyre bead with levers, they tell you the proper way to remove tyres. This works on non-UST tyres too, which are usually far looser than UST tyres.

Huh? You said that UST tyres were designed to be removed without levers. That's not true,

Mavic UST have a deeper trench in the middle to fit and remove tyres without levers. This wasn't put there by accident. I no longer have my handy bits of paper to hand but that's what they claimed IIRC. If you disagree so strongly and it really matters to you I'll try and find the info for you.

been messing around with tubeless again, but can never get the bloody tyres to seat.

for me, 'going tubeless' means 'not riding'

I had my first bad experience of tubeless last week. Was on a run up Carron Valley, came down a rocky decent and "BANG......TSSSSSSSS!!" I had blew a hole about half an inch wide on a sharp rock. There was no way Joe's was filling it. Tried to get the valve out of my Mavic 819's, to put in a tube and it was solid (and still is) Had to carry the bike down the rest of the train. Was not in the least bit amused. Now going to order some of the screw in stans valves from Merlin to see if I can stop this from happening again. Regardless of being tubeless I still always carry a tube, as I said there is a limit to what any of the tubeless solutions can fill.

As for comments re needing a compressor I only use one the first time I put a new tyre on. The rest of the time fit the tyre as got round the outside of the tyre and pop it into the groove. Once you see most of the gaps are filled between the rim and the tyre pump like mad and it will go up. If you are using a track pump it is even easier. you do sometime need to rotate the rim to let the stans/joes etc fill any small gaps.

One other piece of advise, use UST tyres. I found that non UST Spesh tyres were quickly annihilated the outside rim. I use Panaracer and Mavic's tubeless and had no problems.

To be fair, a stone nasty enough to make a 1/2 inch tear could well have taken out a tube if it was in there too. I carry a tube and a tyre boot with me as I did when riding tubed but in the year since going tubless, I have not had to use them. Stans (flow & 355) with yellow tape and maxxis lust and Bonty tubless ready tyres here and always blown up from the 1st stroke of my track pump. I was running my rear a little soft the other day and cocked up a landing to flat and felt the familiar thud of the rim bottoming out. Forgetting I was tubless I was already slowing down anticipating a pinch flat when the grey cells kicked in and remembered I was probably fine - happy days!

The only negative (and it's a small one) I have found is if you are a serial tyre changer and faffer for the conditions the process is a bit messy with sealant sloshing around.

i`m in 2 minds about tubeless.

1) its a ball ache to install.
2) its a ballache to swap tyres.
3) you defo need a compressor OR add loads of weight to your wheels by putting loads of tape on the rims.
4) its more expensive than a tube.
5) you HAVE to run higher tyre pressures. 20-25psi on a tubless tyre = burps and ripped tyres

benefits.

1) less thorny punctures
2) lighter weight tyres can be used

i think i like it as it allows me to run lighter tyres.

took me 3 attempts to get a set of tyres running good tubeless. had 2 blowouts (UST Tyres) and 2 ripped tyres (1 ust, 1 non ust).

Me and the Mrs went tubeless after 6 thorn punctures in less than a mile and not had another since started with a Stans kit on pro2 717s with intense non tubeless tyres which was ok but a bit faffy but since got some crossmax st's and some bonty acx tubeless ready tyres and they feel much stiffer and lighter and the ust rims are a doddle to fit tyres on

normally run 2bar in most tyres.

with tubeless ran 2.75 bar but all the grip of 2 bar but with the rolling resistance of 2.75.

puntured the casings and never bothered converting them again. may well do when it comes to winter tyres.

Still not convinced by tubeless despite the "benefits."

I run my tyres hard - 50+ PSI - I very rarely get punctures.
I have never had a pinch flat
My tyres weigh 410g, my tubes weigh 100g (tried 50g Supersonics but they are hopeless) - most tubeless tyres with sealant seem to weight much more yet everyone says tubeless is lighter.
I swap tyres quite often.

What am I missing?!

1) its a ball ache to install.
2) its a ballache to swap tyres.
3) you defo need a compressor OR add loads of weight to your wheels by putting loads of tape on the rims.
4) its more expensive than a tube.
5) you HAVE to run higher tyre pressures. 20-25psi on a tubless tyre = burps and ripped tyres

1. Not that bad to install, once you get used to it, its fairly quick. And you get so few punctures and its so reliable, its like saying you'd rather have a mud shack instead of a house as its easier to set up.

2. Again, once you're used to it, its like a 2-3 minute job changing tyres.

3. I've set it up on 5 different sets of wheels now. Never used a compressor, and have either used a rim strip, which weigh like nothing, or about two layers of tape, which again, weigh nothing.

4. Ghetto or gorilla are just as cheap/cheaper. If you've bought tubeless rims (I'd be running stans rims even if I weren't running tubeless - they're fantastic), then its the cost of a bit of sealant, some tape, and a valve. Maybe a couple of quid more expensive.

5. I've run lower then 20psi in the Alps and Wales and I've never burped. Or ripped.

I still burp dual plys at 30psi on a UST rim on the front, couldn't ever get rear tubeless to work at any useable pressure. tubeless only works well for mincers IME

GW....WTF!

nickegg - Member
GW....WTF!

+1

WTF?

pretty self explanatory I'd have thought!

genuine question - do any of the world cup downhillers use tubless?

No not really

I tried tubeless using Bonty wheels, Schwalbe tubes, pain in the ass to fit & didn't notice any difference (using stans fluid)
Also tried Stans conversion on DT4.2's with Nobby Nics, eventually sat on the rim & sealed, but not 100% convinced.
Reverted back to xxlite tubes-95g each & no problems with running narrow mud tyres either, which I can't do tubeless.

1. Not that bad to install, once you get used to it, its fairly quick. And you get so few punctures and its so reliable, its like saying you'd rather have a mud shack instead of a house as its easier to set up.

2. Again, once you're used to it, its like a 2-3 minute job changing tyres.

3. I've set it up on 5 different sets of wheels now. Never used a compressor, and have either used a rim strip, which weigh like nothing, or about two layers of tape, which again, weigh nothing.

4. Ghetto or gorilla are just as cheap/cheaper. If you've bought tubeless rims (I'd be running stans rims even if I weren't running tubeless - they're fantastic), then its the cost of a bit of sealant, some tape, and a valve. Maybe a couple of quid more expensive.

5. I've run lower then 20psi in the Alps and Wales and I've never burped. Or ripped.

1. No. Its 100% definatly more faff than bunging in tube. Ive persevered with tubless despite setbacks but its still not as convenient.

2. ha ha ha. No way 2 mins a tyre. perhaps if you are using UST rims and tyres. Never for Ghetto. maybe 2 mins for a tube. i'm still running a front mud tyre as i cant face the faff of swapping it.

3. some tyres/rims are easier to seal some just dont. they all take tubes though and you dont have to get messy finding that out.

4. no. a tube costs £4. replacement ghetto rimstrip costs £4 plus latex. i've not re-used a ghetto rimstrip successfully yet but i admit i'm still learning and have ideas which may help in future!

5. lucky you! i`m with GW. in my experience you have to run higher pressures or mince about.

GW goes big compared to a great many of us though.

So unless 'you go big' you're considered a mincer....okay.

I don't go big!

On nights out I used to go big early to avoid the rush.

I've been running mavic crossmax UST tubeless for years now, with Bontrager super juice. Much better system then inner tubes IMO.

Just waiting for my Nobby Nic's and stans no tubes to arrive today.

On the ease of changing tyres - a pal of mine got a flat in his tubeless running without sealant - dunno what system ( I think UST). I broke a tyre lever getting the tyre off - and I do know how to change tyres. It was the tightest tyre / rim combo I have seen

I think the key thing is puncture resistance. If you get loads of puncture 'cos where you ride is hawthorn hedging or whatever than tubeless would be good. if like me puncturing is a rare issue and I also like to change tyres a lot then tubes are so much easier.

TJ - did you try and help blindfolded? if not, it would have been clear what system it was and if doing it properly you shouldn't have needed a tyre lever, nevermind broken one.

[i]I had my first bad experience of tubeless last week. Was on a run up Carron Valley, came down a rocky decent and "BANG......TSSSSSSSS!!" I had blew a hole about half an inch wide on a sharp rock. There was no way Joe's was filling it. Tried to get the valve out of my Mavic 819's, to put in a tube and it was solid (and still is) Had to carry the bike down the rest of the train. Was not in the least bit amused. Now going to order some of the screw in stans valves from Merlin to see if I can stop this from happening again. Regardless of being tubeless I still always carry a tube, as I said there is a limit to what any of the tubeless solutions can fill.[/i]

tbh I always carry a plier-type multitool

TJ: I'd be surprised if it was UST as IME UST is the only tyre/rim combo i've managed to get on/off without levers.

GW - Member

TJ - did you try and help blindfolded? if not, it would have been clear what system it was and if doing it properly you shouldn't have needed a tyre lever, nevermind broken one.

I assure you GW that I do know how to change tyres. 4 of us were there and tried and none could get the tyres off. They simply were too tight on the rim and not enough slack was available even with the bead in the well and so on.

Not tried getto but i do have XT tubeless wheels and have used a whole variety of tubeless tyres and all have worked perfectly, easy to get on and not too bad to remove, they have sealed first time (with a track pump) so absolutly no faff. The main benefit is no freekin flats....to be fair i dont pick up that many off road but on the commute oh my god it was at least one or two a week sometimes more....i swear the council deliberatly drop thorny branch cut offs in my path..swines. since i went tubeless a year ago the only time i've flatted was a 4" nail through the wheel and i let the latex dry out once appart from that it's been two years riding with no flats...god bless stans i say.

TJ - UST is mavic's acronym for their tubeless rim system and carrys a "UST" logo, their rims are instantly recognisable from the nipple inserts. UST rims are a piece of piss to get tryes on and off.

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most other systems use a rim strip - it'd prob have been the extra material of the rim strip that caused you greif getting the tyre off - you might have noticed it if you'd been able to get the tyre off 😛

Cheers GW.

I run Stan's ZTR Flow rims, Roval tubeless rim tape, Stan's valve cores and Specialized 2-bliss tubeless ready tires (Fast Trak, Eskar, Purgatory, Captain, Clutch SX) with 2.5 cups of Stan's Solution

super easy to install (5 mins a tire), inflates every time with track pump and no detergent, no tire roll or burping, have regularly changed tires, never found it an issue...

no problems really? and the performance gains are very noticeable, both in terms of ride feel / traction, and lack of punctures / pinch flats

but I can understand trying to set it up on random rims and tires which are not designed for tubeless, or doing ghetto setups, can make people give up with tubeless?