[Closed] Tubeless set up. what are the benifits ?

Can run lower pressures without pinch flatting.

A huge majority of punctures will seal.

Can be lighter as you don't have a tube.

Less rolling resistance due to not having a tube to deform - only slightly.

More grip as you don't have a tube to deform - only slightly.

Think they ride better, but that might be bollocks.

I have been using UST wheelsets for about ten years now. Before I used to get at least a puncture a week using regular tubes and tyres after converting to tubeless I get one a year. I also think you get better traction with tubeless as the tyre can deform to the terrain better.

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thanks guys for the info im not convinced that its worth spending 50 quid on at the moment what do you class as lower pressures and will they seal 100% or do they leak when not in use

in my experience, the (small) benefits do not outweigh the negatives.
sure you can run 5 psi less, the wheel will weigh 50g less and you may never pinch puncture (I think they are the only stated performance benfits, although are bragging rights a benefit?).

BUT

you have to faff around with sealant, Messy.
UST tyres cost more, Sealant costs more.
You either need Co2 canisters, a compressor or Popeye to inflate the tyres fast enough to pop them on the rim.
You have to wait a a good few hours after fitting a tyre for it to have sealed enough to ride on and it will go down constantly for a few weeks till the sealant has filled all the porous bits of the tyre.
if the pressure is too low, or the tyre sidewall or bead too flexible, it can burp, roll off the rim etc, this requires you to use (shock Horror!) a tube to repair it on the trail, so you get all your riding kit, hands and bike covered in sealant.
You can't just swap tyres over before a ride if needs be.
I've tried it 3 or 4 times over the years and have NEVER been convinced its worth it or that i can feel any difference on the trail, and i have used UST rims, UST tyres, Stans rims and strips and normal tyres etc.

Some people swear by it, i say save the money.

Think it depends on what you ride and where. On my hardtail, riding in the lakes (rocky), I think it was definitely worth it. One puncture in over a year of riding (and that was on the first ride where i slashed a fairly big hole in the tyre).

One bit of advice though - don't brag to your riding mates that you're running tubeless and you wont puncture anymore.....cos guess what....you will

I've just made the jump to tubeless after years with tubes, I'll let you know what I think next week 🙂

in my experience, the benefits outweigh the (small) negatives.

you can run more than 5 psi less, the wheel will weigh 50g less and you will never pinch puncture (but these are not the only stated performance benefits).

you have to faff around with sealant, it can be messy, but the faff is considerably less than the faff of countless punctures on the trail, in the wind and rain and mud.
UST tyres cost money, sealant costs money, tubes and repair kits also cost money.
You sometimes need Co2 canisters or a compressor to pop them on the rim, sometimes they'll pop on with a track pup, it depends.
You don't have to wait a a good few hours after fitting a tyre for it to have sealed enough to ride on although it might sometimes go down for a a day or two till the sealant has filled all the porous bits of the tyre, on a par with a slow leaking thorn puncture in a normal tube.
i've heard stories of if the pressure is too low, or the tyre sidewall or bead too flexible, it can burp, roll off the rim etc, this requires you to use (shock Horror!) a tube to repair it on the trail, so you get all your riding kit, hands and bike covered in sealant, although i've never seen this happen in a decade of riding.
You don't need to swap tyres over before a ride because the lower tyre pressures give you more grip in most conditions, you swap tyres at the start of winter and the start of summer.
I've tried it once about ten years ago and have been COMPLETELY convinced its worth it because i can feel the difference on the trail, and i have used UST rims, UST tyres, Stans rims and strips and normal tyres etc.

Some people swear at it, i say spend the money.

Just for balance 🙂

i been using tubeless for a few weeks now and loving the feel 🙂 🙂

been running tubeless for 18 months, just a warning, there are lots of on going costs,
you will have to top up with sealant, the sealant goes off in the bottle once opened in my experience, so a new bottle say every 6 months at least, valve seals perish so need replacing, yellow tape is ruined if you replace spokes so you need to buy that,

Tubeless feels better and works better.

Try this site for information.
[url= http://petefagerlin.com/yes_tubes/product.htm ]olivers yes tubes.[/url]

UST tyres and rims here... and working well for both of us on all our bikes.... less successful with ghetto conversions or rim strip kits.

Nobby Nic and Mavic rims... both fit with a track pump and the usual sealant. I carry a tube and a tyre boot. Very few punctures in the years I have been using them here and abroad. Been very reliable, even in places where reliability is a factor (Morocco).

Tubeless ready dont work for me on the Mavic rims I have for some reason, so back to full UST. Buy tyres from nextday tyres,com...

No one mentioned repairs with tubeless without taking teh wheel off yet either... as its been a big bonus for fast repairs... especially in bad weather....

HTH

For me the biggest advantage would be the resistance to thorn punctures - but we don't have much hawthorn hedging around here.

I have seen tubeless tyres roll off rims, burp and puncture several times which then becomes and utter pain to deal with and as a serial tyre changer who does not get many punctures it simply is not worth it to me.

If you can't change a tube in an ordinary tyre quickly then its s skill worth learning

im torn on this one, i recently switched to tubeless on a combination of UST rim (rear) and rim strip (front), and have had real trouble getting tyres to inflate without the use of a local garage's compressor(!)
Ive also been covered in sealant twice on the trail when hurriedly having to sort a split tyre (by inserting a tube, ironic indeed).

However, Its only a small difference, but I swear the bike has better 'feel' when running tubeless. Im certain the grip is better too, certainly when hooking into loose terrain uphill.

Ive also literally heard about half a dozen punctures self heal whilst riding, and that puts a big smile on your face.

Plus, reducing rotation weight of your wheels is where youll most notice a weight saving.

So for me, tubeless just about swings it.
Going to have to splash out on a compressor though, but ive been looking for an excuse to buy one for ages. Not being able to easily change tyres on a whim is a bummer though, but its not like I did that very often.

Punctures plain and simple.
I use my bike for everything and on the road or cycle ways around the city I can avoid the grief of punctures altogether.
Just remember to top up the sealant one every couple of months and you can't go wrong.

Jim, unless you need a compressor for other things, the co2 cartridges are pretty good value on ebay....

daver27 - Member

in my experience, the (small) benefits do not outweigh the negatives.
sure you can run 5 psi less, the wheel will weigh 50g less and you may never pinch puncture (I think they are the only stated performance benfits, although are bragging rights a benefit?).

BUT

you have to faff around with sealant, Messy. [b]True[/b]
UST tyres cost more, Sealant costs more. [b]False as UST tyres are not required and how can 50ml of sealent cost more than a tube?[/b]
You either need Co2 canisters, a compressor or Popeye to inflate the tyres fast enough to pop them on the rim. [b]False, done mine with a mountain morph pump when on a ride[/b]
You have to wait a a good few hours after fitting a tyre for it to have sealed enough to ride on and it will go down constantly for a few weeks till the sealant has filled all the porous bits of the tyre. [b]Completely false[/b]
if the pressure is too low, or the tyre sidewall or bead too flexible, it can burp, roll off the rim etc, this requires you to use (shock Horror!) a tube to repair it on the trail, so you get all your riding kit, hands and bike covered in sealant. [b]or even just put the tyre back on?? In 5 years of tubeless this has never happened to me[/b]
You can't just swap tyres over before a ride if needs be.[b]Why ever not, tyre on, sealent in, pump up, ride!![/b]
I've tried it 3 or 4 times over the years and have NEVER been convinced its worth it or that i can feel any difference on the trail, and i have used UST rims, UST tyres, Stans rims and strips and normal tyres etc.[b]Obviously have monkey hands and not doing it correctly[/b]

Some people swear by it, i say save the money.

for my 2p's worth

Getto tubeless works well

Specialized 2bliss tyres seal and inflate easily with a track pump

Kenda / schwable non tubeless ready are a pain to get to seal infact near impossable (for me)

much better er "feel" realy noticed when I rippped the sidewall of a tyre sealant sprayed all over the place and I had to use a tube to get me home ( the bike felt bloody awful)

Is it worth doing??

For me [b]yes[/b]

Kenda / schwable non tubeless ready are a pain to get to seal infact near impossable (for me)

Jim, unless you need a compressor for other things, the co2 cartridges are pretty good value on ebay...

You either need Co2 canisters, a compressor or Popeye to inflate the tyres fast enough to pop them on the rim. False, done mine with a mountain morph pump when on a ride

In my very limited experience, non-UST & some 'tubeless ready' tyres are a bitch to get to seat on initial fitting. I think the rim you are using and whether your tyre has already been used (pre-stretched) also has a bearing.
However, UST tyres are probably easier to inflate, and I reckon its worth the faff anyway as they handle so nice once up (and they stay up).

got lucky over 5 years - good one

Jim, the CO2 cartridges are pretty good. I usually can inflate the tyre with a track pump and use co2 as a back up. One cartridge seats a 2.3 tyre...

Tubeless for 5 years.

Have used UST rims and Stans Rims (with yellow tape).
Always used UST tyres.
Always used a track pump to seat the tyre with no problems.
Have had several punctures and all have sealed (eventually).

As to whether it's worth it, only you can decide that. I wouldn't go back to using tubes offroad.

I think its too much faf for the tiny benefit (which are outweighed by the negatives IMO).

But I actually enjoy the few punctures I do get each year. I see it as a much needed break in riding while I catch my breath and stick a spare tube in. But I do tend to ride with mates who are fitter than me.

Just to further counter someone elses bad experiances-
you have to faff around with sealant, Messy.
[b]Yes but better faffing in a dry warm garage than on the trail side
UST tyres cost more, Sealant costs more.
[/b]Ghetto, I've been running non UST tyres (Conti, MIch and Swb) for 6 years no problems, A years worth of sealant costs less than 3 good tubes
You either need Co2 canisters, a compressor or Popeye to inflate the tyres fast enough to pop them on the rim.
[b]I nornally reseat Ghetto'ed tyres with a track pump, but i must admit to having a £35 B&Q compressor
You have to wait a a good few hours after fitting a tyre for it to have sealed enough to ride on and it will go down constantly for a few weeks till the sealant has filled all the porous bits of the tyre.
[/b]Really? Plus don't you normally check your tyres once a week/before a ride
if the pressure is too low, or the tyre sidewall or bead too flexible, it can burp, roll off the rim etc, this requires you to use (shock Horror!) a tube to repair it on the trail, so you get all your riding kit, hands and bike covered in sealant.
Yes they can burp, once in six years and shock horror it blow back up with out a pump. [b]
You can't just swap tyres over before a ride if needs be
Really?[/b]

Biggest disadvantage i've found is waiting for people to fix/change punctures on a ride.

I've got 1 bike tubeless, has been for about a year (not that it's been ridden much in the last 6 months!)

I can't say as I've noticed any real difference, I haven't been particularly prone to punctures in the past (probably shouldn't have said that!).

For me, I'd say it wasn't worth the initial cost of setting up (I bought a stan's conversion kit although I know there are cheaper ways of doing it!). If I get any issues (i.e. when I need to top up sealant or tyre pops off) I'll be going back to tubes because it seems more simple to me 😛

got lucky over 5 years - good one

like I also said, I think alot of it comes down to tyre/rim choice.
You obviously got it right, well done.

I run ust and my experiences are much more positive than most of the above posts

No1 - only a track pump (a strap and washing up liquid) is needed to inflate
No2 - I don't use sealant and have had only 1 puncture in 8 months
No3 - the less weight on each tyre the better - of course but you only appreciate that when actually riding and not researching
No4 - the downside is they are more expensive

Most of the troubles listed I have never encountered. Make the jump but go ust

topping up sealant is easier than replacing a tube

No1 - only a track pump (a strap and washing up liquid) is needed to inflate :[b] must be a UST thing[/b]
No2 - I don't use sealant and have had only 1 puncture in 8 months - [b]so you'd have had zero punctures if using sealant?[/b]
No3 - the less weight on each tyre the better - of course but you only appreciate that when actually riding and not researching - [b]? so you [u][i]do [/i][/u]notice the weight saving?[/b]
No4 - the downside is they are more expensive - [b]& UST tyres are much heavier[/b]

Q - I can see why the idea of not using sealant appeals, but surely this means you are running a puncture time bomb?

No3 - the less weight on each tyre the better - of course but you only appreciate that when actually riding and not researching

Few UST set ups save weight.

I'd +1 to JoB, definitely a convert.

Having used various systems over the last 10 years Stan's rims are definitely the best, helped if you have a range of tyres you know will work.

It's great if you need it, but if you haven't had a flat for 8 months and you're happy as you are...

Sorry double post

We can all debate over the op but talking from my experiences (that's what we can all do with any degree of accuracy) is sealant isn't needed in a ust. A timebomb? So that means all ust must use sealant? Thats a big fat resounding no.I do cannock chase, notts, peak district and Yorkshire and yes no punctures apart from a tear in the sidewall - a tyre boot saved me, not sealant

The weight difference is noticeable cos I've ridden bikes with tubes in before - think we all have haven't we?

I've noticed the odd thorn sticking out (small) and once remover just seals itself - rubber on rubber - that could be a fetish site

I ride with more confidence when tubeless, not so tippy toey in the rocky stuff, just blast through. Also more grip on techy climbs which is nice. All in all I ride faster with less dabs and less punctures which over rides all the negatives. 😀

I would go back to V-brakes and rigid frame & forks before going back to tubes, due to the frequency of thorn punctures I used to get.

I knew my post would be picked on!

If you carry a tube, fixing a puncture can be done in less than a minute trailside, its clean, simple and quick, if you do it right, so many people don't. if you run tubeless and puncture badly, you will get VERY messy and sticky.

I have destroyed tyres running them tubeless due to burbing. i used stans flow rims with the green rims strip at my last go, i will NEVER go back to it. as far as i am concerned its all hype.

It helps that i only puncture once or twice a year it seems, so for me there really is no contest, Tubes all the way.

Daver27, not picking on you mate, offering a differant experiance.
If you are only getting 1 or 2 punctures a year then you are better off with tubes, i'd say.
The final staw for me was 8 punctures (thorns and pinch flats) between 3 riders in 3 hours (should have been a 2 hour ride) all with six miles of home.

sorry double post

The weight difference is noticeable cos I've ridden bikes with tubes in before - think we all have haven't we?

But UST are (often far) heavier than their tubed equivalents. A standard Rocket Ron + tube weighs less than a UST one. Add in lightweight tubes and there's a marked difference. Plus UST wheelsets are often heavier, the rims certainly are.

I agree about not [i]needing[/i] sealant - I had some very early UST Crossmax, the only tyre one could buy was a Michelin Wildgripper and sealant hadn't even been thought of, I got very few punctures, fewer than with tubes. However... a tubeless ready (or converted normal tyre) weighs far less than a UST tyre, with the benefit of more puncture resistance, so even fewer punctures.

I have about 8 sets of (normal) tyres that will go straight up on either of my wheels with a track pump and I can ride on them 30 seconds later. If I encountered the faff some seem to, with needing compressors etc I'd be less keen I suspect!

It was a joke, just showing the exasperation i had with my experiences of tubeless, showing the darkside of it if you like!

I know it works for a lot of people, but it would appear to not be my thing. 😆

The puncture thing is why i really like it, 4 years and 1 puncture which was actually a badly ripped tyre.

The weight difference is minimal (if any), the ride characteristics and grip gains are noticeable (but you'll want to experiment a bit with pressures which takes time), the lack of pinch flats the significant bonus for me, it takes more effort/damage to flat a tubeless tyre (IME)

Obviously nothing is totally failure proof - you'll still need to take a spare tube and pump with you just in case...

TBH though it's not worth spunking £50+ on Stans strips, not when there are equally effective "Ghetto" methods that achieve the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

Google "Ghetto Tubeless" - there's a few How to pages and some videos knocking about... You Do Not need to spend a fortune...

IME, tubless is great when it works, but an absolute ball ache when it doesn't.

great for thorn punctures, especially in the winter when it's cold and muddy

bad, it's wasteful when you do have a failure, tubes you can take home and repair, tubless you just leave a puddle of latex.

sidewall splits and holes, make it difficult to use the tyre tubless again, still looking for the best repair method.

worn tyres don't work well tubless, you'll get more life out of a tyre running tubes.

you still have to stop on occasion to pump your tyres up, due to breaking the latex repair on a previous puncture (bad jump landings do it for me) or reluctant sealing on a new puncture.

Having a compressor helps especially on big volume tyres, though this can still be a pain as some tyres just don't like playing ball.

I accept ust rims and tyres are heavier due to their double sidewall and most I'm reading was exactly my opinion until my newest bike came with stock ust I was blown away. I've lost very little pressure (don't want to say none as some science buff will probably shoot me down)

I also carry an innertube in case of a puncture as don't want to be messing about with that nonsense on the streets of Nottingham.

Yes ust are heavier but require no sealant
Tubeless are lighter but DO require sealant which is both messy and costly (and builds up in the tyre negating the extra weight loss) - I'm trying to be biased but ant help myself - sorry
Tubes are familiar, friendly and easy

Er .... Guess the debate goes on

Tubeless/UST isn't some sort of panacea...

Any damage bad enough to split a tubeless tyre sidewall would still have wrecked a tubed tyre as well so I can't see that as a legitimate criticism of tubeless.

Nothing is ever perfect.

And whatever tubeless setup you use, you will no doubt run into some frustrating issue or another eventually, but then tubes are hardly infallible either, we've all been on rides where some poor bugger gets through several tubes.

I wouldn't say tubeless removes the issue of flats, simply that IME failures are less frequent with tubeless, obviously the trade off is more faff getting the tyres fitted (just don't try to do it 10mins before a ride) and more mess when you do have to fix a flat, it generally suits people who will ride the same tyres most of the time, rather than "serial tyre changers"...

[i]Any damage bad enough to split a tubeless tyre sidewall would still have wrecked a tubed tyre as well so I can't see that as a legitimate criticism of tubeless. [/i]

any future side split repair is held in position and protected by the tube, even if its as simple as the piece toothpaste tube. IME flexing in the sidewall has the tendancy of weakening permanent repairs and breaking any latex seal.

i went tubeless a couple of years ago, initially ghetto and then proper stans rims. I used to pinch flat nearly every ride despite running high pressures. Since then i've flatted once (thorn) stopped, pumped it up and carried on.

won't use tubes again

I accept ust rims and tyres are heavier

But you said about the saved weight as one of your 4 benefits - are you saying that's not really a benefit at all, and it's psychological?

UST certainly has it's benefits over other tubeless systems, but it's big detractor (IMO) is the weight.

You'll never totally get rid of tubes, there will always be a place for them, but that shouldn't be a high end MTB 😉

I struggle with long sentences but

For me, you swap mid-ride faff for some non-riding faff. Personally, I prefer messing about with my bike in my garage rather than out on the trails so tubeless is spot on.

I've got three bikes tubeless now - two mtbs and a CX.

The two mtbs are a doddle - One with a Bontrager rim/strip, normal tyre and sealant, the other with a Mavic non-UST rim, rim strip and normal tyres. Basically I put it all together, inflate, ride. That's it. No more puntures (pinch in particular) but I do usually have to pump up my tyres a bit before each ride.

My CX bike has been more troublesome probably because of the higher pressures but once it's right (sometimes takes a couple of attempts at fitting, leaving overnight, riding it etc to get it just right and not deflate through a ride) it's great as it allows me to run much lower pressures without getting pinches as soon as I look at a rock.

I can't see myself ever going back to tubes.

That all said, if I rarely got punctures with tubes, I would probably stick with them.

Oh and I'm not convinced that they're faster/feel better to any significant degree.

FWIW - I went tubeless using Schwalbe bmx innertubes and stams sealant for less than £20, on the stock Alex ZX 24 rims that came with my bike, and Schwalbe Nobby Nic's. The tyres are billed as 'tubeless-ready' as far as I know. Not a problem so far, I just carry my spare tube in a ziplock bag, so if I need to swap out the sealant covered 'rim strip' I've got something to put it in to keep my pocket clean..

Minimal weight saving I guess, but the ability to run lower pressures without pinching is worth the minor faff to begin with IMO.

im obviously missing something, why dont you need sealant with UST tyres? what stops punctures?

UST, Stans + Yellow tape + UST or normal tyres, ghetto +normal tyres. Use them all and never going back to tubes except as a trail fix. Go with Mavic or Stans rims and Maxxis tyres and you'll miss much of the faff that many get. Ok so you might not get your fave condomesque tyre on reliably but if weight weenieism is your goal then you should look elsewhere.

im obviously missing something, why dont you need sealant with UST tyres? what stops punctures?

UST tyres are a bit thicker, but that's all. Nothing seals any holes you do manage to put in them obviously.

Just swapped out a Nobby Nic and a Spec Control for a pair of Mud Xs, all the sealant had dried up, managed to pump up the tyres with a normal (not track) pump.

5 thorns in front tyre, 3 in rear, so that's 8 punctures (at least) that I've been saved since I rode over a spike or something that shredded my rear tyre in June.

Ust rims and tyres are heavier than tubeless. Standard tyres with tubes are heavier still. That's what I meant by heavier

As for ust filling holes - nothing does but the magic of air pressure in the tyre. Like Dynamo - magic

So if I use a ust tyre with ust rim should I use sealant? Surely I should....

If I just have ust rims it is my understanding I can use some normal tyres (with sealant), what is the advantage of using a proper ust tyre - just tougher?

Sorry for idiot questions...

Dave

UST tyres are tougher than their tubed equivalents and are therefore heavier.

If you don't use sealant with your UST tyres then you have the same puncture protection as a normal tyre.

I don't know how easy it is to use normal tyres with UST rims, I would assume you will need sealant.

I used Stans Crest rims and can get Nobby Nics, Spec Controls and Mud Xs to seal with out sealant (for how long I haven't bothered finding out), all have gone up and stayed up increadably easily, only 1 puncture and that was a nail or spike that went right through and gouged the centre of the rim, put a tube in and because it was dark I then went on to ride 30 miles in the dark with the inner tube bulging out of the centre of the tread 🙂

Ust don't need sealant. Some use for peace of mind. I use the thought that if it's good enough for motorcycles it's good enough for me

Lots of negativity on here regarding ust (not tubeless). Wonder how many doubters actually run ust's?

I've been using tubeless for several months now. Only downside I can see is that is was hard work inflating.

So many pluses. The ride is noticeable nicer and can run a lower pressure. No punctures, the sealant has fixed all holes. I don't spend for ever fixing tubes and I now have a huge pile of them in the corner of the shed which I just won't use. I cannot see me going back to tubes long term ever again.

Ust rims and tyres are heavier than tubeless. Standard tyres with tubes are heavier still. That's what I meant by heavier

You're sort of comparing apples with oranges, but they're not really.

Schwalbe (and Conti among others) UST tyres are about 200g heavier than their tubed counterparts. A tube weighs about 150g. The lightest UST rim is the XM819, at 450g+. Even Crossmax SLRs are nearly 1500g.

A pair of DT 240s on ZTR Alpines would be about 150g lighter and cost less (if you use the same hubs/spokes with an XM819s the difference is over 250g). Combine with a tubeless ready Rocket Ron (or whatever you fancy) and you can either add 150g of tube, or 50g of sealant and 10g of valve.

UST setups are reliable, they're not light.

Lol

Well they feel more agile and lighter?

Probably because the wheels and tyres you used before were heavier, so for you, they are! That's not to say that UST is lighter than an equivalent tubed or non-UST tubeless set up.

I ran tubes which are heavier which is EXACTLY my point

So you ran UST tyres and wheels, with tubes? Of course UST was lighter!

Jes - your now making this up. Forget it

sticking with tubes as i only get about 2/3 punctures a year so not really a prob even on the side of the trail at night can get the whole shebang done in about 10 mins inc a quick wee break in the middle 🙂

I love my mavic 819's with ust ready nobby nics and one more positive is the cushioning effect of softer Tyres due to the lower pressure which can help soak up bumps

Coming back into MTBing after 10 years off, does anyone use latex innertubes nowadays? How do they compare to going tubeless?

I always swore by them as they are lighter, comfyer and (fingers crossed) punctured less.

does anyone use latex innertubes nowadays

No. 😉

Pretty much died a death really, as they were more faff than butyl ones folk who were interested in the performance went tubeless!

Thanks guys for the replys didnt think i would start a war 🙂 i might just go for mavic 823's and rebuild the wheels