Apparently Fulcrum 77 DB have only been tested with Pro Ones. And they are apparently good but some people saying they don't last long?
I'm just looking for a general riding tubeless tyre - not too slow but also would like it to be reasonably durable. Any suggestions?
Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance - roll well, fit easily, seem to be durable. I didn't have a good experience with the Pro Ones, though they've been updated since.
Have a look at IRC tyres - Cycle Clinic stock them. They are the longest lasting tubeless I've used. Others I have used:
Challenge Paris Roubaix HTLR - pretty and feel nice but do lose air slowly.
Pro 1 - nice middle of the road tyre
Hutchinson Fusion - much like the pro 1
Mavic Yksion II - was an emergency purchase and I was dubious but it's a nice tyre and easily as good as the pro 1.
IRC Formula Pro RBCC - all weather on the commuter. Excellent grip and longevity. A bit heavier than most of the above but hold air superbly with bugger all leak and utterly reliable.
Hope that helps.
I've got Pro Ones, the old version. No real complaints other than a puncture that wouldn't seal with a worm so I had to take it off and patch it. Didn't ride them much this summer so too early to really say how long they'll last but they don't seem to have worn excessively in ~1000miles.
I had Hutchinson Fusion 11storm tyres before that, slightly slower (not conventional winter tyre slow, but not extra special summer tyre fast). If I was specifying a bike form scratch I'd get those. In reality, the slight weight penalty and rolling resistance probably weren't enough to be perceptible, especially as they're on different wheelsets which more than masked the tyres difference. And they could be ridden through the crap on the road with absolute impunity. The pro-ones do seem to pick up a lot more pinholes even if tubeless does seal 95% of them, the hutchinsons I counted 32 thorns in the back one when I removed it, and it had never lost a PSI once I switched to Stans Race sealent.
Ive been riding pro ones since March. Over 3000 miles, no problems, no punctures, showing some signs of wear on the back. They are fast, and super grippy in all conditions and very often on offer so can pick up a pair for ~£40
Edit - Make sure you get the newer version with the addix compound
Liked the old Pro-ones, very comfortable but unfortunately also very fragile...I hear the new Addix version is much improved but it hasn't stopped one of my riding mates puncturing twice on recent rides so I'm not yey convinced!
Hutchinson All Season just seemed stiff, not very comfortable but held up well.
IRC RBCC were execllent year round, came up a bit smaller in size that the Schwalbe and split one once on a cattle grid (it still sealed). I don't think many tyres would have survived that impact.
I'm now using GP5000TL which seem very similar in comfort to the Schwalbe, they seem to be lasting pretty well too.
Ta.
Over 3000 miles, no problems, no punctures, showing some signs of wear on the back
That gives me confidence as 3k miles is probably enough to last me 12-18 months.
How do they size up?
How do they size up?
From memory bang on, I`m running the 30mm version. Can measure them later if you want me too.
I can only assume that the new Pro Ones are much improved. Mine had appalling wet weather grip, were puncture prone, and the rear was squaring off at 1500 miles. Just after, a large bulge appeared in the carcass.
https://www.merlincycles.com/hutchinson-fusion-5-all-season-11-storm-tlr-folding-road-tyre-700c-116846.html are supposed to be a good balance of performance and durability.
I run tubeless off road on both bikes (who doesn’t!) I want to believe I’ll get a similar experience on my road bikes, but just can’t get my head round it - higher pressures / lower volume so less margin for error and sealing capabilities.
The only time I’ve seen tubeless fail first hand on road (three times) were normal thorn / flint punctures - not rips, slashes or tears and on each occasion the punctures didn’t seal and a tube was needed.
Are tubeless really a better option than tubes on road? I currently have GP5000s in 25s and 28s - when they wear I’m still tempted to try but don’t want to waste dough and be disappointed.
I run pro ones on the good bike and they lasted noticeably less time than the gp4000s they replaced. I reckon you'll still get 2500 miles out the rear though, which given they cost about 25 quid is hardly wallet busting.
I've been on tubeless over 5 years and won't go back, I've not had any bad experiences though. All my punctures (bar the cattle grid incident) were on the Schwalbes and all sealed and held to 50 or 60 psi.
I generally run 70/75 anyway so no bother at all.
Mine had appalling wet weather grip
Yeah forgot to mention this, a bit sketchy on damp corners
Are tubeless really a better option than tubes on road?
IME yes. I've also been running them for 5 years. All punctures have sealed, and I like being able to run lower pressures, especially in winter.
I won't go back to inner tubes - tubeless has been brilliant. Best example is a crit I racwd last year on an unswept airfield after rain. Loads of people punctured and I was just fine - not because of lack of punctures, I got several splooshes of latex on my legs and the frame had several areas of latex splurge at the end of the race, but because it really is effective.
Caveats - check your sealant levels - Milkit valves help in this respect, and carry a good anchovy kit, preloading the steps if yiu don't use a preloaded system. When you use an anchovy let air in gently. First time I used one I used a co2 cylinder all at once and simply shot the anchovy back out the tyre!
Just for clarity (as there are a few different versions and updates) we are talking about Schwalbe Pro One TLE with Addix race compound, right?
"The Pro One TLE with Addix Race compound is Schwalbe's answer to the competition. The casing is now marked as being a 2 x 127 TPI casing instead of the 127 TPI + Microskin fabric of the previous generation. While the Pro One Tubeless did well in our tests, we received a lot of comments about the subpar puncture resistance of the Pro One Tubeless when used in a tubeless set up. It looks like the Microskin didn't work as well in real-life and Schwalbe now simply uses a double layer casing with a V-Guard puncture strip under the tread.
The compound also received an update, the Pro One TLE now uses the Addix Race compound instead of the OneStar compound of the previous generation. Specified weight has gone down by 10 grams for the same specified size but please be aware that Schwalbe downsized the tire to be more true to size when used with wider rims"
have used pro-1’s a couple of times but have moved to Hutchinson fusion 5, seem to be a good balance between durability and grip, i don’t mind tyres wearing out if they are grippy but want puncture resistant and grip first.
think the range is split between race, endurance, wet weather types.
pair i’m running now are the performance ones, will be buying them for my winter bike i’m building.
Mine were definitley the pre-Addix ones, have heard the new gen are much better but no experience myself
Mine were definitley the pre-Addix ones, have heard the new gen are much better but no experience myself
Ditto.
I also have the Ones (not Pro Ones) on my winter bike, solely because they're available in tan wall and I'm a tart. So far so good, but I've only done a couple of hundred miles on them.
Those are the ones, the name just rolls off the tongue 🤣
Can't say I've noticed a lack of grip with the Pro-Ones, then again I find grip on the road is all or nothing anyway. Work out where it is, then spend the whole ride at 9/10ths or follow the guy in front and hope he has cheaper tyres than you!
I've got some yksion pro II in 25mm going cheap, if you want to try them.
I like Pro Ones (pre-addix). Probably got 2200 miles out of the rear before replacing it, front is still going strong. No punctures (or none that sealant didn't sort).
That was probably riding it under-pressurised for a good deal of the time, and a non-zero amount of gravel sections.
I've swapped down to Ones for winter, a fair bit cheaper, not too much of a weight penalty.
Been running tubeless for several years now, both on my posh summer bike, winter bike and TT bike. Here’s my thoughts :
Pro ones (original) :
ran these for a couple of summers (basically because there wasn’t much else out there at the time) relatively fast rolling, and half decent puncture protection. Had a few times where a puncture occurred and all but one resealed. The flies in the ointment for me though were after 1500miles the rear had squared off and the carcass was starting to show. Also the grip in the wet was absolutely shocking,had a few rear end slides so lost all confidence in them. The MK11 versions might of improved on this though. They came up large on my LB rims (17.9mm internal, 25 outside dia) 23mm tyres came out at 25
IRC Formula Pro RBCC TL
Tried these after giving up on the pro ones. Very good tyre, lasted much longer 2500-3000miles on the rear) with excellent grip wet or dry. Not quite as fast rolling but not that noticeable. Ever so slightly heavier than the pros but could put up with that for the better grip. True to size also.
IRC Formula Pro X Guard TL
After really liking the Formula pros I gave these a try on my winter bike. Very, very happy with them. Hard wearing (into
My second winter with them) excellent puncture protection due to the mesh guard running around the tyre. Yes you take a hit on rolling resistance and weight but I’ll take that in winter if it means I keep on rolling. Fixing a puncture that doesn’t seal isn’t fun when you’re cold and wet.
*note* if you haven’t heard of IRC tyres don’t worry, I’m lead to believe that they make the tyres that Specialized sell.
Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ Tubeless Ready Tyre
These are the old MK 1 versions that I use on the TT bike. Super light, super fast but very fragile. A race day only tyre. I believe the MK11 version is a little tougher but I still wouldn’t trust them as an everyday tyre.
Last but not least, the
Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL
Put one of these on the rear of my TT bike for a 12hr TT I did last year (last thing I wanted was to be 11hrs into the race then have to abandon due to the corsa speed having a slashed sidewall) I was so impressed with it I got a pair for the summer roadbike. Excellent tyre, even more longer lasting than the IRC’s with the same grip. Also true to size. It’s also slightly cheaper (you can pick them up for around £40, the IRC’s are £55) so these are my favourite summer tyre atm.
Never had a puncture that didn’t seal with pro ones, evo micro skin versions. In fact only aware of one puncture when I spotted a massive bit of branch spinning on my front wheel with its thorn in planted. Managed to seal when I removed it and spun quickly.
Wear wise, I think they’re good for 2500/3000 miles and a proportionally more for the front.
I've got Pro Ones and Conti 5000TL on different bikes. Both are great but I think Ill go Pro One as the replacements for both when they eventually wear. I reckon that won't be until late Spring though giving them just over a year of use.
All my tires have little white dot near the centre lines as I have obviously got thorns stuck in that sheared off and wore down but with no obvious leakage.
Very happy with both.
Had mixed results with Hutchinson fusion performance, front lasted over 4000 miles but went through two in very quick succession on the rear and both got 5mm cuts that wouldn’t seal. 5000’s are my favourite, front has done 4000 miles and two rears have been replaced after 3000 miles. I run them all year round, front at 72 and rear at 78psi.
if you haven’t heard of IRC tyres
They made MTB tyres back in the day.
It seems like high pressure is the enemy of road tubeless. I'm thinking that I would be able to run 70psi in a 28c if I weigh 90kg ish.
The new Pro One Addix do size up small. I bought an Addix 30mm to replace an original Pro One 30mm & it came out at 28mm.
It said in some blurb that they made them smaller in anticipation of people using wider rims on which they would retain their stated size. I will be having somewhat wider rims I think.
It seems like high pressure is the enemy of road tubeless. I’m thinking that I would be able to run 70psi in a 28c if I weigh 90kg ish.
I run 60psi in my 30mm at 85kg.
Sounds reasonable then.
Tried all sorts to mixed results. Gp5000 weren’t great for me. Will try them next summer on the good bike though as hoping I just had a dodgy tyre. Rear was constantly getting flats that wouldn’t seal. Anchovies would kind of get me home, sometimes, but I’d invariably stick an inner tube in (after the fight to get the tyre of the rim).
Pro Ones decent in the dry, not so great wet grip (crit racing). Not bad, just not confidence inspiring in fast corners. Didn’t get a great deal of use before they started to pic up flats that wouldn’t repair (yes I would clean out and reapply the sealant), maybe 2000 miles at the most. But that’s ok and probably what I’d expect from a fast rolling tyre.
Winter bike is now on Bontrager R3’s. Seem good. Second time with a set of these as winter tyres. Not a fast tyre so wouldn’t use them as best bike/race tyres, but grippy and sturdy enough for winter miles.
A lot of the time though it’s all about luck. I have friends who swear by the Hutchinsons and others who feel like they’re made of paper.
Yeah to virtually everything ⬆️⬆️ from me too. Pro Ones old & new are super fast & defo size up on the large side. My experiences of them riding - they are made from at least 50% cheese, not really in respect to punctures but more wear & tear. Currently on Hutchinson Storm as they came free with new set of wheels - not tried them out yet. Would also never go back to tubes.
I much prefer the gp5000 to the pro Ones I had. I found the pro ones to be much more fragile. Not sure I'm helping, or that there's any consensus?
GP 5000s currently more easily available, some stock issues with Pro Ones it seems.
Does anyone thing it does NOT improve ride quality?
For me the increase in ride quality has been more noticable with wider tyres. On my rim brake bike I can't really go much over 25mm and haven't bothered re-tubelessing either tyre after punctures that wouldn't seal - I don't notice the improvement enough for it to be worth the faff. The road wheels on my gravel bike have some 28mm pro ones on and they do feel better tubeless - I suspect moving up to 30mm will be even more marked.
It's certainly not as night/day as gravel tyres or MTB tyres for me though.
My 32mm clinchers feel pretty amazing to be honest, at least comfort wise. They’re my very bad weather wheel/tyre combo, comfy as anything but slow and heavy. Much more comfortable than my tubeless 28mm, but then again different size.
In terms of pure like for like size wise, tubeless in my opinion is no more comfortable than a 28mm Vitoria Corsa G+.
I have a set of 28mm addix pro ones on the good bike. Very comfortable but required tape to seal them on my 2-way fit Zondas (25mm ones went on and up with no tape nor problem). I'm running 75 psi rear 70 psi front at 80-85kg weight.
Good grip in all weather but my set-up leaks air slowly and requires a check before each ride.
What's the difference between One and Pro One?
Weight and rolling resistance I would imagine...
What’s the difference between One and Pro One?
Don't know the technical differences, but the One is definitely heavier, according to my kitchen scales anyway.
Picked up a puncture on my tan wall One last Sunday, which wouldn't seal. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.
Found some Pro Ones for £40 each.
A colleague is telling me to get Stan's Race sealant for road, he says normal Stan's is a false economy. Makes sense to use better binding thicker sealant on a higher pressure tyre.
What’s the difference between One and Pro One?
about 1mph on your avg speed
Also not sure the one is tubeless where the pro is
A colleague is telling me to get Stan’s Race sealant for road, he says normal Stan’s is a false economy. Makes sense to use better binding thicker sealant on a higher pressure tyre.
Yr colleague is right about the issue. Dont know if hes right about Stans race being the answer, I doubt it.
Some small punctures you get wont seal at optimal road pressures, but they will at lower psi like 40 say so you can keep riding. Don't think there is a sealant out there that will always plug a hole at 80 psi+.
That's a good point. I wouldn't mind if I had to stop and pump up, as long as it seals eventually.
Happy with the Conti 5000 TL 25 mm, puncture less than with the tubed one plus it's among the fastest..
When I searched for GP5000s they were more widely available (and in fewer confusing versions) but were listed at 340g in 28c, whereas I found Pro Ones for only slightly more but they are listed at 270g.
Orange seal seems to be the sealant of choice on weight weenies road forum.
I wonder how many people complain about tubeless not sealing are using poor performing sealant.
Well my mate had issues and it was set up for him by his LBS using Giant stuff. He also had 120 psi in.
I wonder how many people complain about tubeless not sealing are using poor performing sealant.
Caffelatex in mine. In contrast, I've never had a problem with ordinary Stan's sealing.
Caffelatex also, though not sure I've had any punctures to test it.
Orange seal (endurance) and Stans have all woirked well for me in the past.
Orange seal actually held to 100 psi when I tried it in a tubular repair with a dab of flexible Loctite on the outside.
Caffelatex also, though not sure I’ve had any punctures to test it.
Or maybe you have...?
Does anyone thing it does NOT improve ride quality?
I'm not there is a 'night and day' difference. I have 25mm latex/clinchers and 25mm and 28mm tubeless. I don't think I could tell the difference between the two sets of 25mm tyres. The 28s offer a slightly smoother ride but they are bigger tyres. I don't hate road tubeless, but I don't think it's a massive step forward like it was for MTB.
Back to the OP, I like Hutchinson tubeless tyres for the road. I really like GP4000 and 5000 but I couldn't get GP5000TL on to my Mavic rims, they are an incredible snug fit. (It seems to be quite a common problem with GP5000TL.)
Or maybe you have…?
Indeed!
By the way, Schwalbe now have a Pro One Addix in tubeless with tan/transparent sidewall if that's your kind thing...
I wonder how many people complain about tubeless not sealing are using poor performing sealant.
25mm Pro Ones up without a problem using a track pump on the 2 way-fit Zondas and held pressure well.
28mm version needed tape and a pressurised tank fill to get them to hold.
Sealant - Stans Race for both.
The gravel bike has Continental 33mm tyres fitted tubeless that went up with the track pump, 3 wraps of tape and they hold pressure for a couple of rides on Orange sealant.
I suspect there's too many variables to reliably call what the problem is.
When you say tape, you mean tape around the outside to help it inflate, or rim tape?
Rim tape, the Zondas don't have a drilled rim and shouldn't need a tape for inflation.
God i find road tubeless such a ****ing pain in the arse. I see so little benefit from it. My lady's bike is still running it, more because i can't be bothered to fight the tubeless tyres to fit tubes, but i'll be keeping tubeless to the MTB.
I’ve just retired one of a pair of Vittoria Corsa control 30c tubeless after around 2500 miles. Been brilliant. Used very much outside the tyre design parameters for road and rough road riding and a lot of audaxes. Very good and smooth ride with loads of feedback and grip. Kept pressure brilliantly.
I went with Pro Ones but can't compare with anything else. They're good, roll well, grip, all that. No problems sealing but they're tight, in fact definitely the tightest tyre I've fitted for years. Getting them to pop onto the bead of either of my wheels is hard- needs a ton of pressure and soap and a little luck. They won't bead up on one set at all, with tubes in- which isn't an issue, til you get a flat...
And yet, they still pop off the bead when flat.
So I dunno. I'm happy with them as a tyre but the tubeless side of it reminds of old Schwalbe mtb tyres when they decided that the secret to tubeless was to make undersized tyres. For sure one of my wheelsets is also pretty tight but the other isn't, and neither had any issues with conti or vittoria tyres.
I'm thinking of wiping a bit of silicone spray on the bead instead of soap.
Hmm. I've just had my third Pro One get a cut in it that wouldn't seal and bulges with a patch in it. One of the morals here is that they're prob not ideal as a winter tyre.
Well I run the same tyres all the time so..
Further to mentioning Hutchinson fusion previously in this thread I fitted a new pair of 28c to some carbon road/gravel wheels I had built by a local builder and they went up with a track pump, no sealant or lube and have been sat for 2 days at near 100psi without losing pressure.
Did need to use a single tyre lever to fit but they were certainly not difficult.
I've had Voyager Hypers (38) Fusions (30), Sectors (32) , Pro Ones (28) and GP5000TL (32) and have settled on the GP5Ks.
The Voyagers were okay, but wore very quickly to the point of starting to puncture (<1500km), the Fusions were okay, but small and felt a little harsh for a tubeless tyre. The Pro Ones come up quite small and I found them to be lethal in the wet, especially on surfaces nwhere you transition from road to a path. They did improve a bit after 600-700km (they stopped squealing in the corners), but were never inspiring. The Sectors I ran for a long time. They do come up smaller than I'd like, but rode well and wore well (>3000km on the rear) and I only got one puncture in 8000km on them. The hole was about 5mm across, so not sure anything would've sealed. An anchovie fixed it and I ran the tyre for another 2000km. The GP5ks roll better than any of the afore mentioned tyres, they also size up properly and are nice and supple, giving a great ride. 5000km in and they initially do wear fairly quickly, but seem to be okay after that initial period and are lasting well. No punctures so far and that's with commuting and country lanes thrown into the mix.
I've found Pro Ones to be fine in the wet, and easy enough to fit and inflate.
Also durable enough so far, inlcuding riding into a square-edged pothole without even slowing down - I was amazed when I didn't have a flat either end.
I know the older version had a rep for being more fragile though.
I have used Spesh roubaix in 30/32 used on shit roads, first ride I got a puncture that didnt seal!! Tube job and patched the tyre later another time I had a puncture that was trying to seal but another rider I was with punctured so I put a anchovy in it whilst I was waiting. Jury still out for me. Pro ones are tubeless on mrs anagalis bike, been puncture free so far. Good job as they were a massive wrestle to get on!
Is there a consensus on the best way to fix road tyre punctures that won't seal? A patch on the inside? Anchovies? Recommendations for repair kits that work much appreciated. Thanks.
@ransos. I've always just used an anchovie of appropriate size. I've never had to go back due to do further repairs.
Thanks @Daffy. I was concerned that the repair might blow back out at road pressure but sounds like it's ok. Wiggle do a kit for £5.
Got a link to the anchovies you use?
Is there a consensus on the best way to fix road tyre punctures that won’t seal? A patch on the inside? Anchovies?
Whenever I have used an anchovy I have then patched the inside of the tyre at home. LBS mechanic advised this, said anchovies can be worked loose on the road more easily than mtb
Here you go:
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Well they arrived, so I fitted them. And frankly I'm astonished how well they went up. By far the easiest tubeless set up I've ever done by a mile. Not even tight on the rim, easily fitted with thumbs alone; airshot not required, they just went up with a few pumps. Bead popped on at about 70psi. By far the hardest part was taping the rim. I mean come on, what would it cost you to make it a bit bloody stickier?
Stan's race is weird though. You can hear the bits rolling around inside the tyre like tiny marbles when you spin the wheels, and it's quite loud. It sounds like when you've got grit in your discs.
The carbon valves I got from Wiggle are great too - they fit really nicely, some of the best I've used, they look great and they are only FOUR grammes. However don't get too big a size as for some odd reason they aren't threaded all the way down. I had to put the alternative rubber washer on the outside and screw down on that.
The tyres looked tiny, but they came up at 27.5mm on 19mm internal width rims. Turns out the 28c it came with were actually 30.5. No wonder the mudguards were a tight fit.
Just been for a spin, and results are good.
I put 60ml of sealant in, so I reckon I've saved:
80g on the tyre
10g on the rim tape (the original stuff was pretty sturdy and Schwalbe tape is really thin)
60g on the tube
.. on each wheel, which is a 300g saving roughly. And it's noticeable.
In terms of speed when rolling, not particularly noticeable but I'm knackered today. A bit smoother and more lively somehow - to be fair, the old ones were pretty wooden.