Tubeless ****

Good luck in your journey, it can be frustrating.

I've had much more luck with higher pressures (30mm tyres at around 60psi) since switching to tubeless valves with a rectangular shaped rubber seat that fits better into the rim bed. Muc Off for example.

Still on tubes on my road bike (28mm) as it's so reliable I can't see the point of the hassle.

Have you tried riding on them?

I had something similar with a front wheel on a bike I've now sold. Wouldnt seal after retaping, but would seal after properly cleaning the rim of tape residue (mucoff tape, replaced with more muc off tape). Have you tried cleaning and degreasing the rim? These were alloy hope MTB rims mind but the theorys the same.

Put the wheel in a bath of water to see where the air is getting out. You will certainly see a bubble every few seconds at the deflation rate you described. What to do next depends on where it is leaking.

Yeah done loads of rides and the front can  lose 5-6psi on a 5hr ride. They are 35mm Specialized 2bliss tyres on Roval 21mm internal, C38 rims. They have quite a squared off rim bed.

I’ve tried that J-R and it didn’t help unfortunately.

pump them up, ride them, add more sealant (if needed) repeat.

Hookless tyres on hookless rims?

How quick do they deflate? Is it in seconds or after a few miles riding?

It’s these tyres

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/s-works-mondo-2bliss-ready-t2-t5/p/1000161296?color=1000161298-1000161296

I cleaned the rim with isopropyl when I retaped and was very careful poking the hole for the valve (used a pointed pick).

Should I retape and try double layering it?

Tighten up the valve stem with a pair of pliers to make sure it’s not leaking there. If it’s going down quickly and there no obvious bubbles that’s usually the spot

Double taping is usually if they’re not holding air to inflate.

Tighten up the valve stem with a pair of pliers to make sure it’s not leaking there. If it’s going down quickly and there no obvious bubbles that’s usually the spot

don't do that, I've seen cracked inner rims from doing that.

Tighten up the valve stem with a pair of pliers to make sure it’s not leaking there. If it’s going down quickly and there no obvious bubbles that’s usually the spot

I agree: Don't do that, apart from damaging the rim the most likely outcome is that you will deform the valve  plug & it will definitely leak air. I have seen a number of wheels where the problem is that the valve is tightened too much: Easing it off means that it actaully seals.

I’ve got MucOff valves in and there’s a rubber o ring on the stem under the stem nut so I’ve tightened it just so that the ring is compressed but the nut isn’t touching the outside of the rim.

Agree that too tight will deform the inner seal too much.

One of those patches that glue themselves over the valve hole can help. Schwwlbe used to do that with ProCore.

<p style="text-align: left;">Have you checked the valve core is tight? Stupid question maybe but I learned this the hard way with not dissimilar symptoms when I removed one to inject sealant.</p>

Where might I find those @jamesoz ?

Have you checked the valve core is tight? Stupid question maybe

actually I did nip it up today after my ride so I’ll see if that makes a difference - it’s hard to do it very tight as the valve itself starts spinning obv. I did pinch it with my fingers and did it up as tight as I could without gripping the valve with pliers …

Something like this stuck on the inside before you poke the valve through

Well that didn’t work, google glueless patch kits.

I did pinch it with my fingers and did it up as tight as I could without gripping the valve with pliers

I bought a little bag of replacement cores that came with a little core removal tool off Amazon.

The tool thing is great for popping cores in and out.

About £10 iirc

In my experience MucOff is a bit thick and not good at  sealing a tyre in these curcumstance.

Had a wheel that would not seal with MucOff selant but sealed with the more runny Hutchinson Air Max.  But it could have been something else that sealed that wheel.

I also find that bouncing around  the wheel  on the ground  (with wheel upright) and turning it every few bounces is a good way of getitng sealeant to where it needs to be to sort out imperfections.

@oceanskipper

I did pinch it with my fingers and did it up as tight as I could without gripping the valve with pliers …

I press the backside of the valve firmly with my thumb (with the tyre off) which allows you do do the lockring up firmly without it scraping the rim or needing pliers

@garagedweller - I meant I gripped the valve stem with my fingers to stop it turning in the rim - I've got a tool for doing up the core (in fact the MucOff valves come with a valve cap that doubles up as a core removal tool).

@spooky_b329 - yeah I did that too.

So this morning after nipping up the valve core the front has lost about 5psi not sure if this is an improvement or not really as it's a bit warmer this morning. I've pumped it up to 70psi to see if the increased pressure helps squeeze some sealant into wherever it needs to go, no idea if that would even work 🤷‍♂️. I'm thinking of swapping the sealant back to Stans and trying again although it's beginning to be a right faff - waxing a chain is 1000 times easier than this!

The Roval valves that came with the wheel have a bevelled inner seal that is shaped to fit neatly in the rim bed and I am using this on a MucOff valve - it's not quite as snug fitting on the valve itself so maybe I need to just try and use one of the shaped MucOff ones (the rear is using the Roval seal mind you and seems to work OK. The rear has Stans sealant in. The front did have Stans in and that wasn't working so I swapped to MucOff ..)

What did you see when you put them in the bath? If it was nothing, go and don’t it again slowly until you see where the air is coming from

Did you clean the inside of the tyre before fitting?

If it's still got the greasy release agent on the inside the tyre will leak indefinitely.

No I didn't clean the inside of the tyre before fitting - maybe that's the issue? I have subsequently cleaned out the first lot of sealant but perhaps a go with some degreaser then and try again...

I'll give the bath another go too - I couldn't see any air escaping originally but I just assumed it was because the leak was too slow and I definitely got bored waiting for bubbles...

Have you squirted the wheels with soapy water around the side of the tyres, spoke nipples and valve stem to find where the air is leaking from?

General rule of thumb is if its the tyre, will take a while for the sealant to seep in and seal, spoke nipples is bad tape job you want slightly wider tape then the rim width, if its from the valve stem it's the seal between valve and tape is bad, I've never been able to get around that issue so have always just dribbled some sealant around the entire valve into the rim to seal it up

Have you considered just whacking a tube in then getting on with riding. Life is too short for faffing like that.

Not sure I can be much help but I empathise with the struggle

I've had lots of tubeless issues over the years largely down to tubeless tape (I think)

It really seems such a hack. A very good hack when it works, but infruriating when it doesn't

I don't think the water test is going to help massively even if you found bubbles, because any tape-related issue will just leak air at the valve, just as a valve-related issue would. If it was a tyre issue, you should have been able to see spots of sealant on the outside, and any sealant should really have dealt with that anyway

You could try tubeless rim strips of some sort? The Specialized ones are good, but there's nothing that'll fit a 21mm internal rim available as far as I know (I'd love to be pointed in the right direction if I'm wrong). I've had mixed results with Effetto Caffelatex -- my current one is working perfectly, but I had issues with others. Expensive, but Merlin did have them on sale recently. I also tend to put one layer of thin rim tape under them to be sure (i.e. covering the spoke holes, but not the full internal width)

What tubeless tape are you using? Have you tried a few wraps of something like Gorilla or electrical tape? Or failing that just use an innertube and set it up ghetto tubeless. I’ve never had a problem with any rim using the Ghetto technique. And that includes non-tubeless rims and questionable tyres.

+1 for ghetto tubeless.

I either use a smaller tube split open or I use clear Gorilla Tape but I make sure the tape goes over the hook and then cut away the excess.

For me the key is to make sure the bead is sealing against the rubber/tape so there is no chance of the air migrating under the tape.

Try some Schwalbe Easy Fit (

it sticks the tyre round the bead pretty well.
Whenever my tyres start losing more air that usual, I just top up the sealant. Did the very thing last night. Use the Conti fluid in road/gravel tyres.

I’m using 25mm MucOff tape on a 21mm internal rim width. I don’t think the tyre bead is against the tape fully all the way round as the tape doesn’t go all the way up the sides of the rim but as mentioned, the sealant should have dealt with any such issues  and there is definitely no sealant coming out where the tyre meets the rim.

I haven’t tried electrical tape/gorilla tape yet..

I have the Schwalbe Easy Fit too and I have used it.

I mean if the stuff they sell to implement a tubeless setup (tape/valves) doesn’t work then how come they sell it? Yes I know using a tube will work but I am wanting to avoid spending time on the roadside fixing punctures….

[i]I know using a tube will work but I am wanting to avoid spending time on the roadside fixing punctures….[/i]

That's why I've been using tubeless for over 10 years. I commute on shitty roads and used to get at least one a week. Now it's one or 2 a year and easy to fix. So, worth persevering, I say. 🙂

Just changed my tubeless tyres to new and was having them go down overnight...turns out I needed to change the inner valve...now they hold for weeks

Saw a video where it was advising loosen off the valve collar a bit and wiggle the valve a bit so some air/sealant escapes and forces the sealant into any gaps. I’ve just tried that and will see what happens overnight….

Are you getting the sealant to completely coat the tyres once up and inflated, so tyres are a little porous, so once up i tend to hold vertically and shake back and forth as i rotate tyre in my hands, then i lay that wheel on its side for a bit one way, then on other side for a bit before placing on bike, making sure sealant coats all the inside and any little gaps.

Not so critical this time of the year, but also make sure the wheel, tape and tyre are warm before starting process, in the winter i'll bring it all inside and leave indoors for a while.

My commuters tubeless system loses about 15psi per week after riding for around 6-8 hours.  I figured it was just sort of normal.  It's quite high pressure 55-60psi, so figured it would leak more than MTB.  I pump it up at the start of the week and then just leave it.

So, I decided to reseta the valve with a different shape inner seal and when I pumped the tyre back up I sprayed with soapy water. What this showed was that the tyre wall itself is leaking air. Loads of spots of small collections of bubbles...

Is this normal? Will it just seal eventually or should I be returning the tyre for a replacement - bearing in mind it's only a week old.

yeah it's normal.... plenty of tyres do it, you notice it more in winter... i seem to recall some people have returned/swapped tyres based upon this, but it's not completely unusual to see 'dotting' on sidewalls.

Thanks - So will it seal eventually then?

Use Stans jizz, not Muc Off!

Have you rotated the wheel a few times , turning it through upright to flat, very slowly, to allow the sealant to coat the entire inside of the tyre? just had this problem, for the first time in about 10 years, because I forgot to spin the wheel of fortune...

Yes I have rotated, bounced, spun etc but it does have MucOff sealant in it which is quite thick isn't it. I've got some Stans so I'll swap it over.... The MucOff has already been in for a week though and I only deflated and unseated this morning so that I could swao the valve seal for a different shaped one. I left all the sealant in place and reinflated after si I don't think the MucOff will seal the sidewalls at all...

So will it seal eventually then?

In my experience yeah... but i've always had some tyres that lose a bit over time... It's quite rare to find tyres that will hold say 25 week after week after week without being touched. There doesn't always seem to be a lot of reason behind which/why and what stays up.

I've always used Stans "normal". It's always worked. Never seen the need to try anything else.

Other than when its a few years old...

Yeah my MTB tyres with Stans in lose 2-3 psi over a couple of weeks which is fine but these tyres/wheels are losing 5psi overnight. I only swapped to MucOff to see if that would cure it but I think I'll swap back to Stans.

Is this normal? Will it just seal eventually or should I be returning the tyre for a replacement – bearing in mind it’s only a week old.

Normal to begin with and sealant will fix it. Suggest using a different sealant to the mucoff you have in there, or trying a mix of artshop latex (£10 per litre on ebay) diluted 50-50 with water. Stans is usually good though.

My experience with Specialized tyres has been consistently good and if you're using Specialized wheels too all should be fine so I'd try a different sealant first. (edit, as you said .. oddly the last few posts weren't showing when I replied)

I've dumped Muc Off sealant, after too many issues where it either wouldn't help seal up a new tyre and failed to stop issues on a ride.

Spoke to the LBS, who mentioned that it is the only Muc Off product they don't stock, as they don't rate it.

Stans or Peaty's stuff seems to work well.

I think I've found why Peatys sealant isn't quite as good as Stans - I took a freshly installed tyre off to change over and Peatys had coated the whole inside of the tyre. Stans sits more in a puddle that rotates with the wheel - so if you get a hole, there's more of it to fill the hole. The peatys is so spread out that it can't "flow" into the puncture as well.
Mavic's stuff I've found is more like Stans and has worked well in my road tyres.
I accidentally bought a big bottle of Continental (confusing it with Mavic, I think) - not sure how well it'll work, but it does rather congeal in the bottom of the bottle and needs a good shake before installation.

Right - swapped back to Stan's. Initially it’s bubbling out of the side walls so I’ve left it lying on each side for an hour or so and spun it around etc and now it’s back on the bike. Pumped up to about 60 psi and I’ll leave it like that overnight, hopefully the Stan’s will seal it.

My question remains though, is it normal to have air coming out of the sidewalls like that on a £55 tubeless ready tyre?

Not in my experience, no.  In the old days, when you were trying to get tyres to be tubeless or when using racing tubeless tyres, sure, but I’ve not had that on any recent road or gravel tyres.  But I also don’t wash/scrub them before use.

Good picture.

The Swalbe tyres that I have on do exactly the same thing but through the tread.

No sign of any sealant leaking through, but the soapy water  found it.

I'm loosing about 5 psi overnight from a 35psi pressure.

In my opinion, I just dont think these tyres are good enough for the job.

(All my trials and tribulations in the thread 'I'm Giving Up'.

I’m going to take them back to the shop if they don’t seal tomorrow. I’ve faffed about with them for a month now and now I’ve discovered it’s not leaking from anywhere I would have expected and leaking enough that it needs topping up with air mid ride if you want to keep it at a certain pressure it’s quite frankly bollocks.

These are Specialized Sworks tyres and I read somewhere they make the sidewalls really thin to save weight 🙄

Spesh are the only tyres I've had that sealant has bubbled out of the sidewalls. Only ever use the Grid version.

Lbs have given me a new tyre . Will try that tomorrow….

Fixed!! Hurray!

So I put a new tyre on (supplied by my lovely LBS in exchange for the leaky one) and went for a 60k ride on it today and hey presto no more loss of pressure (well 1 psi over 24hrs but that could be temp fluctuations and the fact that it's newly on and only one ride old so meh 🤷‍♂️).

😎👍

Name the shop and give them some credit!

Infinity Cycles in Durham. Brilliant store - built me wheels, sold me a fantastic bike. 🙂

Yes, they’re great. Bought my kids Whyte 405 from there and they were very helpful.