[Closed] 'Trek trains expert (female) technicians': discuss chaps and chapesses!

Facebook differs from Twitter in that with more than 140 characters to play with you can really go to town on being a ringpiece.

One wonders what other under-represented demographic the Trek guys will offer courses for next.

Fiver on ten posts before some muppet with similar views turns up on this thread...

Well it seems a little odd in that it can't be being run as the women would be intimidated in training in a mixed environment given that they will already be very experienced and have more than held their own in a male dominated environment. Would it not be better to look at starting with women without experience but an interest in learning?

I find it's a more American thing to mouth off like that in response to a facebook post. You see it on every post STW makes about electric bikes- you get boltonjohn off here and then thirty or forty Americans saying they'll shoot you if you go near their trails on one. Meanwhile in Britain we accept it and move on.

It's a funny thing, I'm married to an American and she's not like that but the more right wing members of her family are.

Obviously, female targeted technician courses are a good thing. The only person that gives top notch customer service in my LBS is a woman.

RACIST!

CFH- I was thinking that as I typed it 😳

The only person that gives top notch customer service in my LBS is a woman.

[img] [/img]

Facebook not loading for me, probably cos I don't have an account.

And I agonized about how to put that too without it sounding rotten 😳

Couldn't resist, sorry 🙂

Surely after three years wrenching in an integrated workplace women would no longer require segregated training?

Could see the point if this had been targeted at, say unemployed women, mothers returning to the workplace or similar

I'm at a loss to see why trek are doing this, but if it's extra training places being created and suitably qualified men aren't being denied opportunities, I don't see that it really matters.

Maybe there's a perceived demand for it and Trek are responding to that? Do blokes really need to have some sort of philosophical discussion about it in order to justify a reaction whose essence is hard to see as anything more than simply feeling hurt by women doing stuff?

Do blokes really need to have some sort of philosophical discussion about it in order to justify a reaction whose essence is hard to see as anything more than simply feeling hurt by women doing stuff?

I think you'll find it's a woman who kicked this discussion off. 🙂

Would any of you chaps feel uncomfortable on a course with chapesses?

a reaction whose essence is hard to see as anything more than simply feeling hurt by women doing stuff?

I think most on here myself included think it's great that women do stuff, feeling hurt WTF ????. But it just feels odd in this day and age that there's a women only advanced bicycle technicians course.

I don't know nearly enough about Trek's recruitment, its policies, the diversity of its workforce or the demand/need for more women in this area to have an opinion.

However, as a white heterosexual male I think it's great that society became equal when we gave them the vote a century ago. I am rightly threatened by any such scheme which may expose or diminish my privileged position in society. Therefore this is as bad as Hitler. Worse, even.

I did my Velotech course with a couple of lasses. I can't say it made any difference.

[quote=Bez ]Maybe there's a perceived demand for it and Trek are responding to that? Do blokes really need to have some sort of philosophical discussion about it in order to justify a reaction whose essence is hard to see as anything more than simply feeling hurt by women doing stuff?
You managed all of that without using the word "knuckledragger". Well done you.

I think you'll find it's a [b]girl[/b] who kicked this discussion off

😉

Would any of you chaps feel uncomfortable on a course with chapesses?

God no, it would be great. Women are much more fun than blokes.

I guess the idea is to have women only training as they are less likely to feel patronised by sneering / letching males?
Possibly they may feel more comfortable amongst fellow ladies, because men in a workshop type environment can be quite condescending to females?

To be honest, I'm rather disappointed that Trek felt this was necessary. My experience from participating in, say, Forum rides, has been that barriers don't exist in mountain biking and it's a very welcoming activity to all.

Anyone who was at the pedalling ideas discussion a couple of months ago will know it's the disabled and LGBT communities that will be targeted next...

Possibly they may feel more comfortable amongst fellow ladies, because men in a workshop type environment can be quite condescending to females?

But won't they all be of a similar ability which would blow that thought out of the window?

pedalling ideas discussion

Que?

que?

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pedalling-ideas-new-cycling-event-in-leeds/

One of the speakers was saying how the two groups were grossly underrepresented in the industry, based on a what comes up when you google images of 'road cycling' 'mountain biking' (pro photos, mainly featuring men) 'lgbt cycling' and 'disability cycling' (amateur pics)

Good god, whatever next, letting women drive cars?!

If they are working at a good level in an obviously male dominated environment I can't see the need for segregated training courses.

Quite the opposite in fact a mixed gender group often has a better dynamic as the presence of opposite sex often temper the more testosterone / oestrogen fueled behaviours (unless it's a bunch of under sexed teenagers), that's certainly the case with our mixed group rides.

Well it seems a little odd in that it can't be being run as the women would be intimidated in training in a mixed environment given that they will already be very experienced and have more than held their own in a male dominated environment. Would it not be better to look at starting with women without experience but an interest in learning?

this is what I'd have thought. In fact I'd be quite sure there's a demand for that!

Either way, it doesn't really matter - if the course does well then it proves that there's a demand for it, and fair play to Trek for spotting that and doing something about it. If there is no demand then they'll stop the course and the special snowflakes of facebook can sleep easy once again.

I can see why a female only course would appeal to some women, mainly because some men are dicks.
Some of the Facebook posts kinda prove this.

To be honest, I'm rather disappointed that Trek felt this was necessary. My experience from participating in, say, Forum rides, has been that barriers don't exist in mountain biking and it's a very welcoming activity to all.

I think it's different in America. My ex gf now lives in the US and is constantly amazed at the attitude of male cyclists towards her over there, eg one example, she recently bought a new fairly high end cross bike and the salesman said he would change the SPDs to flats as they are "very difficult to get in and out of" , despite knowing she is a highly experienced cyclist and assuring him she's used them for many years. It's been a fairly constant stream along these lines, they are generally amazed she can ride as well as and better than most of them and has a clue what she is talking about, but they still manage to be massively condescending about it. She is quite looking forward to returning to the UK!

I think you'll find it's a woman who kicked this discussion off.

Touché 😉 (although to be fair the Facebook responses were from men, so it rather depends what you define as the kick off) and in any case walking on about the discussion probably renders me hoist by some sort of meta-petard anyway.

I just tend to think, it's a thing for women, does anyone need to bother saying much about it at all? What needs to be discussed is the misogynistic responses to it, which is exactly what the original post was doing.

I just tend to think, it's a thing for women, does anyone need to bother saying much about it at all? What needs to be discussed is the misogynistic responses to it, which is exactly what the original post was doing.

exactly, and this is why we now have brexit and trump 🙁

walking -> waffling, doh

My experience from participating in, say, Forum rides, has been that barriers don't exist in mountain biking and it's a very welcoming activity to all.

As a sport/leisure activity - might be different as employment...? Unfortunately, the bike shops I worked in BITD wouldn't have been that friendly to a female employee. It was shameful really.

I'm struggling to see how Treks move is harmful - not sure how it can hurt women in the industry or men. Seems a bit of a non-issue to me.

I'm at a loss to see why trek are doing thi

They are of the opinion it wi sell them more bikes.

I'm struggling to see how Treks move is harmful - not sure how it can hurt women in the industry or men. Seems a bit if a non-issue time.

It could be seen as harmful to some (perpetuating the idea that women need special treatment or that the 'industry' has a problem with hostility to women, as per your example). It should be that case that TREK make sure their courses are not places where they need to hold separate classes to resolves those issues, and indeed that's the case, they are promoting this course to try and entice women to attend who may normally not. Why would they not? perhaps because those women grew up where they did not always receive or feel they received equal or non-sexist treatment.

Of course im sure majority of women would know any mixed gender courses like this (ran by a reputable company) would not be places where they should be uncomfortable, but you cant change how people unconsciously feel. Im sure I would be treated fairly and equally in a training course where women are traditionally the primary employee, but id still feel apprehensive if it was in a subject I wasn't particularly confident going into it.

So a private company offers training to women in a female only environment so they know there's no chance of blokes being dicks. Then a bunch of blokes respond by being dicks. Well done chaps, great way of proving a point.

Doesn't the article say it [i][b]promoted[/b][/i] the course more to women, not that the course was open [b][i]only[/b][/i] for women. Prepared to be wrong.

So a private company offers training to women in a female only environment so they know there's no chance of blokes being dicks. Then a bunch of blokes respond by being dicks. Well done chaps, great way of proving a point.

😆

The internet would be a wonderful thing if it wasn't for all the people on it.

So a private company offers training to women in a female only environment so they know there's no chance of blokes being dicks.

Hence, why I think it is a good idea.

As always, it's white middle class men who are the ones getting offended about such things (and looking on the FB post, it's a bunch of Trump and God loving, gun toting morons....).

I helped run a workshop of around 15 mechanics for a while. We had some great, super keen women mechanics too. Unfortunately, most bike shops seem to have a very 'bro' mentality which can be off-putting. It also never ceased to surprise me how sexist and ignorant customers could be. Some just wouldn't even believe that the woman offering to help them was a competent mechanic and would ask to speak to someone else! So, if Trek want to market one course towards women (but not be 'women only' if people actually read the bloody information provided on the FB page, not that I'd care if it was women only), then all power to them.

As already said, seems a bit odd given they've most likely already proved they can hold their own in a mixed sex environment.'

Having only had female bosses and female teams in the last 10 years I still struggle to appreciate the whole 'sexism at work ' thing. Can't beleive it still exists in this day and age (although I'm sure it does!)

So, if Trek want to market one course towards women (but not be 'women only' if people actually read the bloody information provided on the FB page, not that I'd care if it was women only), then all power to them.

Very much this