LBS has an ex-display Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 on sale for £2500. Am I being daft not buying it?
I'm a bit old school, hard tail, steel frame, pints of best, that sort of thing. All this eMTB FS feels a lot, so a lighter, less powerful bike seems the right choice. I'm only considering it as health issues mean I can't ride under my own power now, so should I suck it up and get a 85nm min output FF eeb?
Thanks
I’d test ride it and a full fat so you understand the difference.
Ime they are quite different. Something like - on the exe you always have to work/contribute on the ff you can go turbo and get pulled along ( and the battery lasts a LOT LOT longer) I’ve had a levo for ages, love it, only real fault is the weight for lifting over fences/man handling etc, I got an exe, I liked it (esp when lifting etc, it on flat and downhill) but for me (*pensioner, map explorer) when I blew up or was in steep hills it didn’t quite help enough. I now have a Bosch sx cube and it’s (Ime) a major step up on the exe (and it’s 2kg lighter) . So you may want to try an sx motor as well as it gives more power annd esp at higher cadences but lets you stay light
I must admit, I chose my emtb (not a Trek btw) for its lifting over fenceability. I looked at the Trek but it seemed pretty heavy in comparison.
After the demise of Fazua, I'm wondering whether there is an immediate future for light emtbs. The media and industry seem obsessed with more and more power + torque. I rarely use more than the minimum setting on my Fazua powered bike. I've tried a full fat Bosch CX emtb and wasn't that impressed.
My big hope is that solid state batteries come along soon, which should make emtbs much lighter for the same Wh capacity. There doesn't seem to be a huge difference in motor weights Vs power, but there is definitely a big difference in battery weight Vs power.
Kind of wandering off topic ... In the end I'd say shop around and get one of the many discounted non-Avinox powered SL bikes that are lighter than the Trek.
Coming from the sort of bike you have now, and if you're not planning on riding with people on full powered e bike, then it looks a great deal. Trek has that as 6400rrp.
Comparing it to my Orbea Rise I most often ride it in Trail which was 250w and 42nm - so the 300/50 of the TQ will be enough power to do a longer ride than you'd do on a regular bike and not feel exhausted at the end of it. You'll get up slopes you'd struggle to now much more easily but you're not going to do super steep e-bike only type climbs you'd want a higher torque bike for. With the 360 battery I'd guess you'll probably get about 1200m vertical.
It's sub 20kg so the weight is fine and upgrading some parts over time could lower that.
However, you say health issues mean you can't ride under your own power - depends how severe that is so a test ride would make sense.
Thanks for the great advice. Just been for a test ride. Liked the natural feel and quite motor. Had to work up the 10% gradient climb on LBS tested route but manageable. The big Bosch motor on the FF was an enormous amount of power, not even out of breath, sat up with max HR of 105. Felt like cheating
I have both lightweight and full fat e-bikes, and both are lovely. Im not sure I would have bought an ebike if it meant moving straight from a normal bike to my 24Kg Mondraker Crafty. So the Mondraker Neat was a great way in.
As someone else has said, a lightweight bike feels much, much more like a normal bike, just with some assistance for your legs. The TQ motor feels so natural, I hardly notice it’s there.
But as someone else has also said, if you’re really tired, and just want to motor up the climbs, then the TQ won’t easily do that. You will need to put more effort in than on a full fat bike.
For me personally, now I’ve bought the FF bike, I rarely ride the lighter bike. And it seems to me that there are many more FF bikes on the trails than lightweight ones.
My feeling (for what it’s worth) is that, if you’re really tired mainly ride alone, the Trek seems like a great deal, and will be a super bike. If you want to shuttle up laps of your local techy, steep, DH type trails, then I’d advise a FF bike.
Thanks for the great advice. Just been for a test ride. Liked the natural feel and quite motor. Had to work up the 10% gradient climb on LBS tested route but manageable. The big Bosch motor on the FF was an enormous amount of power, not even out of breath, sat up with max HR of 105. Felt like cheating
If you're looking at full fat it's still worth riding different motors and different modes - the auto/emtb type ones can be quite odd as they're varying power right up to full turbo. I've not ridden the latest Bosch but when I last rode it I didn't like the way it would give you enormous power at very low cadences (the shimano tends to need a bit more) so you could just ride off up a hill in the 'wrong' gear. It felt really unnatural to me - the Lime rental bikes are even more like that, pretty much full power as soon as you're turning the cranks so more like 'controlling a powered bike' rather than 'riding a bike with assistance'.
I don't mind putting some work in for a climb, while Bosch emtb almost prevents you doing that. BUT shimano/Bosch/Spec/Avinox are all customisable if you spend the time to delve into settings - you can set the minimum/max power in each mode, how much effort you have to put in to get it, if you want overrun when you stop pedalling so in theory you can have an enormously powerful motor and have it ride in a natural way (and only use the full power when you really want/need it)
i looked into these as they look very cheap.
the TQ-HPR50 isnt as good as teh newer HPR60 hence the cheapness of the older bikes. the range of the HPR50 was pretty poor also in the mag tests (but the battery is replaceable so you could get an extra one). I`d defo get the range extender or another main battery. you may get a motor upgrade when it fails as i`m not sure hte 50 one is still available. you can upgrade the motor to teh newer one.
I have a fuel exe and while it's a good bike to ride the motor is pants. I have owned mine a about 20 months and am on my 4th hpr50 motor
The fuel exe will be fine for what you want, as you have discovered on the test ride.
But whether you want something more powerful, only you can decide.
I've got a fuel exe and an orbea wild fs, I never ride the orbea any more.
The tq hpr50 motor has not been reliable, I have had 4 new hpr50 motors over 3 years.
I'm Now using an hpr60 motor in place of the hpr50 and I'm on the second one of these, so it doesn't look like the hpr60 is a huge improvement in reliability.
Just to add, the components on the 9. 5 are generally quite low quality though.
The wheels are heavy and weak, the brakes are poor for actually riding down mountains(fine for towpath), the forks are pretty basic etc etc
I started with a 9. 5 and upgraded nearly everything, but that was always the plan
It's sad to hear that the TQ motor isn't too reliable. Boo
It's sad to hear that the TQ motor isn't too reliable. Boo
In a case study of one!
It’s well documented the HPR50 wasn’t reliable, there are (by comparison) very few reports of the HPR60 having failures.
FWIW, I have the newer version (Fuel+) & my view on it hasn’t changed, it’s very good & if I was ever in a position where I could only have one bike, that would probably be it.
Dont get me wrong, my FF bike (Dreadnought) is utterly ridiculous both up & down, but the versatility of the Fuel & just how much fun it is to ride, still wins me over.
What actually fails on the TQs or is there no info (eg specialised motors I think it was belts and clutch. The Shimano motor I had replaced was the torque sensor)
What actually fails on the TQs or is there no info (eg specialised motors I think it was belts and clutch. The Shimano motor I had replaced was the torque sensor)
For me it's been the torque sensor every time, except for the first failure where it was the sprag clutch.
I've had a few torque sensor failures on my Fazua. Just wondering whether this is a common issue across a range of motor brands (Fazua, TQ, and Shimano already mentioned on this thread).
On the FF discussion, I think the feeling depends a lot on settings. My experience is mostly with Specialized (Levo FF and mate's SL). You can turn shuttle to zero and make it as unresponsive as possible. Then change the pedal/assistance ratio so that you can get full turbo power, but you've got to lay down your own full power to get it. I like that feeling and it makes the battery go further too.
For me, it's a way to get more descents in by climbing more quickly, so FF = better. But if I was out all day and riding around, I'd choose an SL. As much as anything else, hitting the 15mph cut-off is an unnatural feeling on a normal ride.
Really though all the above just muddies the water. You've taken out a bike you like and can afford from an LBS you trust. Comparison is the thief of joy - buy it, enjoy it. When the warranty is up, if it dies then strip the parts for a winter hardtail and buy a new one with whatever new technology exists?
