[Closed] Transition Scout or Santa Cruz 5010?

Try the scout before selling the solo?

If you love it, keep it! I'm biased as I ride the Solo's predecessor and your Solo looks ace 😀

Or demo a Scout and see what you think, it might blow your mind!

I'm having the same dilemma..
But trying to find somewhere in Cheshire to demo a Scout seems impossible..

And speaking to people, Large Scouts nearly sold out.

I'm test riding a solo this weekend at the Leisure Lakes demo day. Hopefully it won't feel too short in the TT..

Will then know what to go for!

That Scout looks nice 😀

I wouldn't own another Santa Clause.

So tempted by the Scout, I might just buy one and try it. If I don't like it I could always sell it.

But here's the quandary, to try the Scout you'd have to ride it...... 😉

I considered both of them and bought a Banshee Spitfire instead.... 😛

Pedals in Edinburgh have a Scout on demo. Good excuse for a 7 stanes trip...

I also loved my Solo, really loved it but thought I would try something different, just being irrational really. Glad I did, went with a Spitfire...so glad I did..!

I say go for the Scout and don't look back.

How much would you want for the Solo? 😆

Went to the Leisure Lakes demo today at Cannock..
Had a great time in the Solo, and also the yeti SB5c..
Both amazing bikes, but that's my dilemma now.. Which to go for?

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Both fantastic, just not sure the Yeti is worth the extra?

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I much prefer the look of the Santa Cruz. The Yeti looks like an electric bike.

I have scout and really love it.

great bike can tackle anything i can throw at it

I'd buy a Banshee Spitfire. Oh that would be because I've had one for 3 weeks and it's the Dogs danglelies. 😉

Some useful graphs. For maximum pedalling efficiency you want ~100% anti-squat around the sag point. If there's not quite enough anti-squat the bike sags as you push on the pedals, losing efficiency. If there's much too much anti-squat the bike lifts up as you push the pedals and then sags back down as the cranks move through the vertical.

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[img] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JH37oLGKKHs/U7gNknxMBuI/AAAAAAAAToA/6BfByo31s_I/s1600/BTR%2BPinner%2B2 6''%2BPrototype%2B2015_Anti-squat.gif[/img]

[url= http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JH37oLGKKHs/U7gNknxMBuI/AAAAAAAAToA/6BfByo31s_I/s1600/BTR+Pinner+2 6''+Prototype+2015_Anti-squat.gif]Spitfire graph link because it won't embed![/url]

Edit: I give up! Why won't that last URL work as an image or a link?

I don't think it likes the '+' in that url. I tried replacing them with ascii %2B, but that didn't work either.

Are you trying to post [url= http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2014/09/transition-scout-275-2015.html&prev=search ]this link?[/url] to the graphs.

As you can see in Table Excel charts and the first new Transition Scout has a performance very similar to the Transition Patrol, but being models with different routes reading the results must also be something different. Effectiveness of pedaling for example is identical, with a percentage of Anti-squat about 100% with a standard 1x11 transmission and a plate of 32T. In a Patrol installation will always be heavier and an average user probably will mount a 30T or 28T, so that the percentages of Anti-squat and Pedal-kickback up a bit. In the case of the Scout plate 32T is very well chosen and the performance is flawless. The Brake-squat (43%) is also very well done, the FSR system has lots of variants and most often have fairly low percentages, but has managed to optimize Transition for a very low value.

In the graph of Leverage Ratio see how the system is the linear-progressive type (2.5-2.55-2.3). The operation is again identical to the Transition Patrol, a system with a very soft ... progressivity In the case of the Patrol this is a small problem that you "forced" to mount a high-end damper (Sensible, Progressive, with regulations HSC ...), but in the case of the Scout's leverage ratio is quite correct, there are models of this type (120mm-140mm) a little more progressive but also there are more linear and shock absorber RS Monarch Debonair of 190x51mm is well chosen, so that the operation will be very good. Obviously it could be improved with a CCDB Inline, but it is a must ...

Ok, so in laymans terms? ^^^^^
😳

If I didn't race & they made a carbon one (as the frame is a bit of a biffer) i'd be seriously tempted by one as my only bike.

There is a carbon Patrol due in a few months, fingers crossed they have a carbon Scout coming - I might not be able to resist if they do.

They look & sound great 🙂

To the OP - I wouldn't. But then I'm not a serial bike swapper.

I'd be tempted by the Evil Following or something pretty different and unique, but I don't really see the point of buying a heavier similar bike to the Solo. It does look nice though.

Ok, so in laymans terms? ^^^^^

5010 doesn't pedal as well as it should but will perform better with a 30t or 28f front ring. Scout, Spitfire and SB5C are all very well optimised for pedalling with a 30-34t front ring.

All four bikes won't perform as well with a modern style double because they'll squat more under load on the big ring and rise under load and then fall on the small ring.

Ta!
Shame about the Solo, as that's what I'm thinking of going for, but can't justify the £5k price tag of a single ring set up..
Still, I could just buy it and then get a 1 x 11 set up and sell the stock parts I guess?

5010 doesn't pedal as well as it should but will perform better with a 30t or 28f front ring. Scout, Spitfire and SB5C are all very well optimised for pedalling with a 30-34t front ring.

All four bikes won't perform as well with a modern style double because they'll squat more under load on the big ring and rise under load and then fall on the small rin

Doesn't it depend what sprocket you are in at the back as well though? I (try to) read some of these graphs and hear people saying that the bike will be better with a 28T than a 32T chainring, but in practice you may be riding with a different rear sprocket (to get the same gear).

[b]teetosugars[/b] - I don't find the stock Santa Cruz builds very good value.
I worked out (via spreadsheet) that £1500 was enough to get a very nice XT 1x10 build with extender ring and Pikes.

But obviously that's at merlin/crc/.de discounters so would require building - something I'm happy to do, but also something that a lot of specialist mechanics are now offering as a service (e.g. Ingear in Poynton).

Good point [b]Alex[/b] that could be the way to do it...
And Poynton isn't that far away either!

There is a Carbon Scout on the way but not until mid next year I believe.

There is also www.slickandslide.co.uk a Macclesfield based suspension servicing company. Offering full servicing on forks, shocks and seat posts. Fully setup for nitrogen charging too.

And http://www.atscycles.co.uk/ in Bollington (although unlike Ingear, it's just a bloke - albeit a very nice one)

Paul at Ride and Repair is very good with a nice unit in Macclesfield http://www.rideandrepair.co.uk https://www.facebook.com/RideandRepair

Do you get paid to post adverts Rick? 😉

No but then if people are plugging other places I might as well plug my own 😉 Slick and Slide suspension, the best choice in Cheshire! Especially when one place charges £55 for just a air can service!

Plus with Evans opening soon in Macc small independents need all the support and marketing we can get.

Suspension service you say? In Macclesfield? Reasonably priced?
Serving Cheshire, Derbyshire and Staffordshire?
[url= http://www.slickandslide.co.uk ]Slick and Slide suspension[/url].

Sounds good 😉

Decided, I'm getting the solo..
Perfect for my Gheycoremincelite™ Style of riding.

You know Josh Bryceland uses one all the time when he's not on a V10 don't you?
i.e.

and

http://www.redbull.com/en/bike/stories/1331711781176/downtime-mtb-downhill-rider-josh-bryceland

^Quoted as his favourite bike in a recent interview.

Sorry, I've been lurking on this thread as I am looking at the Scout myself.

Could you break down some of those servicing costs?
Never understood the massive prices for servicing shocks.

How long does it actually take a professional and how much profit are you trying to achieve on one shock service?
I always feel like shock service companies are ripping off the fellow mountain bikers.. bit like charging someone £22 for an Ice cream because rent and business rates are high. I'm usually wrong so happy to here what your genuine figures are.

Just out of interest and as we are all part of this generous little community 8)

[i]Some useful graphs.[/i]

words that are handy when you're looking at where you should put your savings not so very much when looking at bikes...

words that are handy when you're looking at where you should put your savings not so very much when looking at bikes...

Yes, no bike designers ever use graphs to help them...

Doesn't it depend what sprocket you are in at the back as well though? I (try to) read some of these graphs and hear people saying that the bike will be better with a 28T than a 32T chainring, but in practice you may be riding with a different rear sprocket (to get the same gear).

Its the chainline relative to the main pivot point that's important, not the gearing. Look a some older single pivot DH bikes and see how the pivot position has moved as people started using smaller chain rings.

Could you break down some of those servicing costs?
Never understood the massive prices for servicing shocks.

How long does it actually take a professional and how much profit are you trying to achieve on one shock service?
I always feel like shock service companies are ripping off the fellow mountain bikers.. bit like charging someone £22 for an Ice cream because rent and business rates are high. I'm usually wrong so happy to here what your genuine figures are.

Just out of interest and as we are all part of this generous little community

Doug don't get all defensive.. I expect those things to come from a percentage of the charges to the customer obviously.

I have always felt that suspension shock servicing companies are ripping off fellow mtb'ers with over charging of a simple job using simple tools in low cost units, I tend to avoid them for these reasons as I am careful with my money (though I always tip if I feel a price is fair 8) )
I would be interested to understand the numbers from fellow STW users/shock service companies, (I only asked on this thread because people were promoting their business here.)

I'm happy for someone to earn a decent living but in my mind shock servicing hourly labour charges must be very very high and based on a very low amount of servicing per year.

Low cost tools
Low cost parts
Low cost workshop
warranty and returns are low
Quick work =
£85 service?? even for reverbs..

How long does it actually take a professional and what is the projected profit on each service and based on what sort of numbers per year? No reason to be shy we're all friends here.

I would definitely be more inclined to use these companies if I understood the figures more because I hate the feeling of paying over a fair price.

A lot of it is based on the amount of time going in to a job. When you've got a shock going back with problems, it could need to checked in a water bath for leaks to make sure issues are resolved by replacing seals and there's not worse issues. This won't need to be done on every service. Now, sure, this could mean there's services which cost 40 quid and others that cost 120 but it's easier for the consumer to understand a single 85 quid figure. I suspect most of that difference is in time rather than parts though.

And reverbs, I'd argue warranty returns are high, because the damn things never stay working that long.

No reason to be shy we're all friends here.

no offence but you are coming across like a bit of a twunt

Says the man calling people twunts on the internet.. 😀