[Closed] Transition Patrol - overbiked?

Is it the bike for 90% of your riding or the 10% of your riding?

Transition Scout is probably worth a look.

90% will be Surrey Hills (on my doorstep). I am 27.5 curious. The hardtail is a 29er so I fancy something different.

Having ridden the Surrey hills and owning a similar bike to the Patrol (Turner Sultan) I'd say you'll be over biked for your regular riding, but it will be a cracking bike for your away riding.

I ride a variety of hills in the southwest, and mostly, the Sultan flattens them too much. This is especially true on the Mendips, which is my usual haunt. The Sultan is just too competent a bike to be fun on the relatively mild terrain available. And the Mendips is rougher than the Surrey hills.

Locally, I ride a hardtail and save the Sultan for the away days.

Ignore anyone who uses the word overbiked. Todays big bikes are so good there really is little compromise. I used to have a 125mm giant trance and swapped to a 165mm nomad. The nomad is faster in every situation, more comfortable and a nicer bike to ride. Its as happy to tootle along a canal tow-path with my daughter as it is on a dh track or doing big jumps.
One thing that I have noticed is that the bike makes me actively seek out bigger harder stuff than before. I used to ride it all before the same but now I enjoy it more and feel like I get more out of it.

Ignore anyone who uses the word overbiked. Todays big bikes are so good there really is little compromise.

Poor advice. Big bikes get better the faster/steeper/rockier things are. When the terrain is flatter/smoother there becomes a point where a shorter travel bike or a rigid bike is the weapon of choice.

Don't know the Surrey Hills, but I'd imagine a shorter travel bike would be better.

One thing that I have noticed is that the bike makes me actively seek out bigger harder stuff than before. I used to ride it all before the same but now I enjoy it more and feel like I get more out of it.

This is the problem. In some places, there isn't the 'harder stuff' you describe, and the rest gets so steamrollered the challenge disappears.

It's not that you can't ride it on a bigger bike, or because of some perceived notion of what's fit for use for a given type of trail (See 'overbiked' comments above). Fact is, the better bikes get, the easier they make riding trails, and the challenge diminishes. It's more about what you're looking for in a ride if you're ''overbiked' or not.

Depends what you're looking for from the ride. I live in Peaslake so 99% of my riding is there with odd bike park wales and alps trip. I switch between a trail hardtail and a Banshee Prime which is 135mm rear 29er. Riding buddies use an Evil, Specialized Enduro, YT and Orange 5. The guys with the Evil, Enduro and YT love them but whilst they are undoubtedly fast bikes, I find they smooth the trails out too much and in doing so it takes away some of the excitement for me. I find the Prime an excellent balance between trail smoothing and still letting you know you're riding over roots and bumps with the hardtail being great fun for the additional challenge when I'm that way inclined.

So, if you want to go as fast as possible then I suspect the Patrol is a good way of achieving it. If part of the fun of riding is being bucked around a bit then I'd suggest it's too much travel. Purely personal preference though.

In line with recommending what you've got I've been really impressed with my Banshee. Build quality, suspension kinematics and aesthetic. In 29er they have the prime and the shorter travel phantom. Few options in 650B as well which I assume share the same characteristics. If you're relatively tall then you're welcome to have a go on my XL Prime to get a feel for full sus round surrey hills.

For what its worth, I live in the South also. I had a Transition Covert for a few years and did feel over biked for 90% of what I was riding, and what I am capable of.
I bought a Scout this year and I love it. It always feels like the 'right bike for the job' rather than living with a compromise. With 140mm up front and 125mm (5") out back it is in no way a short travel.
My riding used to be shared between my 26" hardtail (120mm) and the Covert. The hardtail has not been out of the shed this year apart from lending it as a spare bike.

Get your backside to Tamed Earth to demo either. They are a great bunch of guys and the shop is located very close to the Devils Punchbowl so terrain not too dissimilar to the Hills.

Mine is a large and I am based 10 miles SW of Farnham if you fancy try without the pressure / temptation of talking to a bike shop yet.

I've just treated myself to an RFX for the peak district. Overbooked? Probably. Fun? Definitely.

davidtaylforth - Member
Ignore anyone who uses the word overbiked. Todays big bikes are so good there really is little compromise.
Poor advice. Big bikes get better the faster/steeper/rockier things are. When the terrain is flatter/smoother there becomes a point where a shorter travel bike or a rigid bike is the weapon of choice.

Don't know the Surrey Hills, but I'd imagine a shorter travel bike would be better.

This.

Many from this parish use hardtails over there with no issue at all, myself a 100mm FS. Plenty also enjoy themselves on 160mm enduro bikes, but they are not what you [i]need[/i].

As a comparison, I have loads of fun on my 100mm FS in Afan and as as much as having a bigger bike would be more flattering on the downs, I only go twice a year, so its not worth buying one.

Get the big bike. If you want to feel quicker day-to-day, then maybe a second set of lighter wheels and fast tyres would be a good compromise.

I've got the Suppressor, and it really shines in the Alps, although it's also good for my regular riding in the lakes.

Depends totally on what and how you ride. There are smooth easy trails amd some big jumos, gaps and drops in them thar Surrey Hills. (@david there is a lot of stuff you need bigger travel on, depends what you are riding)

I have a Covert and a BFe, both 26. For the majority of my riding inc Surrey Hills (I lived in Guildford for many years) I take the BFe as it makes the trails I ride more tricky and interesting. The Covert I use mainly for Alps etc. I do very little jumping these days (52 amd had a few crashes) hence the choice. The Covert I bought from Nirvana in Westcott where I did a demo and the owner rode one for a good while. For a Surrey Hills freeride type rider its perfect bike, climbs well and can take the hits. There is no doubt I can get down a trail faster on the Covert and hit helps a lot with poor landings from my small jumps. Its outstanding in the Alps or on away trips in the UK.

I've not ridden a Patrol but from what you've said it would be a good choice, or possibly a Scout. If you pop into Nirvana I am sure they'll talk to you about Intense. You could do a demo and/or join them on a freeride session.

It's horses for courses depends which side of the fence you stand, Andy's or David's and of course your riding style.

I personally sit towards David's, while modern long travel bikes can pedal and climb quite well these days I still prefer shorter travel bikes as they make the trail more interesting. Too much travel and it sanitises the trail too much.

I've ridden Surrey Hills on a Boardman hardtail which has 100mm travel and verges on the racy xc side and I've also used a Transition Bandit full suss with 140mm travel and had lots of fun on both.

I could ride pretty much all the trails on either bike but I was faster and more comfortable hitting the steeper and more technical parts on the Bandit. Which I felt for me anyways was the perfect bike for the terrain. Not too much travel to make things too easy but slack enough to be able to ride the harder stuff with confidence and speed.

(@david there is a lot of stuff you need bigger travel on, depends what you are riding)

Tosh. There is nothing that could be classified as rough in the surrey hills where you 'need' big travel. Similarly the jumps and drops, all easily achievable on a hardtail. If you want big travel because that suits you and gives you a much bigger margin for error then that's absolutely fine, but you definitely don't need it.

i think the scout is the natural successor to the bandit and the patrol is the "new " version of the covert.

Transition make fun bikes!

I have a trans am hardtail that i probably ride 80% of the time since it makes my local tamer trails feel more "gnar" and therefore fun. There's no doubt that the bandit is quicker downhill (&uphill in many cases) but i tend to use it for visiting exmoor/quantocks/ wales more than at home.

I demoed the covert and the bandit at the time and whislt the covert was a great bike and climbed beter than i expected, ultimately it felt like it made stuff id actually have the balls to ride too easy and the limits of the bike would be way beyond anything id take it down.

i'm sure the patrol is a great bike but i'd be going for a scout i think.

I stand by what I say.
I only ride for fun and don't take it seriously so when I go riding its just me playing in the woods on a bike. I have an anthem, trance, chameleon and a nomad and pretty much always choose the nomad because its more fun. But my idea of fun normally ends up on big ladder drops, gaps and seeking out the roughest terrain an area has to offer.
I hate the term overbiked as a few people said I would be overbiked before I bought my nomad. They soon take it back when they see the photos or videos of the jumps and drops it allows me to do. I will still do them on the chameleon and occasional on the trance but it doesn't feel like the trance would last very long doing it often.

solarider - Member

90% will be Surrey Hills (on my doorstep). I am 27.5 curious. The hardtail is a 29er so I fancy something different.

I hate the term overbiked as a few people said I would be overbiked before I bought my nomad

Seems like you have more of an issue with people having opinions different to yours.

They soon take it back when they see the photos or videos of the jumps and drops it allows me to do.

Well this is the point - the OP isn't asking for that, he's asking "What bike for the Surrey Hills"

You telling him he should get a Nomad type bike because it satisfies your criteria for the above is poor advice. Sure you can ride a Nomad around Surrey, but the word "need" is important here - he doesn't "need" a Nomad to do so.

No problem with anyone having a different opinion I just don't like being told ill be overbiked by people I barely know who don't know what I ride or want to ride.

too competent a bike to be fun

it's too good at what it's designed for so it's boring? so a poorly designed bike is more fun because it's crap? 😕

No problem with anyone having a different opinion

Ignore anyone who uses the word overbiked.

Happy Christmas.

Selective quote to remove the context RD? There's more to my sentence, which read '...on the relatively mild terrain available...'

I'm telling him to get the bike he wants and not worry about being overbiked. As I said in my experience bigger bikes are more fun in most situations and have little compromise nowadays. I'm comparing to my trance but my bigger bike just means you can go faster on the fun stuff most of the time if you so desire.

Similarly the jumps and drops, all easily achievable on a hardtail

i reckon theres kind of a sliding scale in operation here.

Many of us ride mountain bikes partly because we like the rush we get from bouncing downhill at the percieved limits of our control. if it was just for fitness or to "get outside" we would just ride road bikes and not have to deal with the constant mud and breaking expensive kit.

So in my mind getting this rush is a function of three things:

- Your ability on a bike (percieved or actual and often related to age / consequences of breaking yourself)

- The terrain you're riding. whether natural or man made, how steep/rocky/twisty/big are the drops/jumps

- The bike itself. In reality "most" things can be ridden on "most" types of bike (depending on your balls/skill level and how fast you go) BUT the "bigger" the bike is, the more it smoothes out the terrain so you have to go faster or find bigger terrain to get the same level of adrenaline and that might well be limited by where you ride or what you're actually prepared to hit.

Andy obviously uses his bike his bike on "big" stuff but i doubt he'd get the same "seat of the pants" rush from riding the average trail centre blue on the same bike. Ride that blue on a CX bike with narrow tyres, no suspension and questionable braking or a Klunker and it would be a whole different experience.

Then again maybe i'm just killing time at work until i can go home and start on the mulled wine!

Then again maybe i'm just killing time at work until i can go home and start on the mulled wine!

I resemble that remark!

Perhaps consider the Scout? I've got one on order, I've been told they can be run with a 150mm fork (this has come from Transition themselves) and the rear is described as bottomless. Sounds more than enough for me (most of my regular riding is in the Lakes.)

Good summary creepers. Pretty much spot on.
I do ride the biggest stuff I can find. I'm lucky to live near some really good riding one of which is a dh / freeride park with big jumps, gaps and drops.
What I was trying to say to the OP is that even though the bigger bike will happily do all of the above I still choose it over my other bikes on smoother easier rides.]I don't take my riding seriously to care if the bike is steamrolling some easier bits of trail. These bits for me are just a means of linking the bits I want to ride.
Ill leave it at that as I'm obviously fighting a loosing battle.

I'm in the process of building up a Scout - coming from a Covert ... looking forward to seeing how it rides.

In your position I'd probably go for a 140mm bike, possibly with a 150mm fork. The Canyon Spectral looks the closest to what I'd want.

Capable enough for all the UK riding you describe - and more - and you can always hire a bigger bike for the day if you're visiting a bike park abroad.

It's also an arms race, what are your riding buddies on?

This is worth watching:

if you look closely you can see how the patrol smoothes out the terrain more than the scout. the scout still looks very capable though!

@chakaping funnily enough i just upped the fork on my 27.5 bandit to 150 (rear end is 140) but not had the chance to ride it in anger yet. itsalready a very capable bike downhill, be interestig to see how it feels now

@Gotama despite living in Peaslake you sound like you don't know half the trails and pretty much none of the (hidden/non publicised) jumps.

You mean there is more than Barry Knows Best and Yoghurt Pots?

Go on a Nirvana freeride ride and see how much of that you want to ride on a hardtail.

No. Been there done that. Started off with Simon telling us we'd struggle on hardtails. Then spent quite a while standing around a fairly basic (even by my limited jumping skills) gap jump while someone on a 160mm la pierre made full use of his travel by ploughing through the landing slope of a jump. Then we did some nice drops to flat. T'was awesumz.

Again

(@david there is a lot of stuff you [b]need[/b] bigger travel on, depends what you are riding

Need huh...I'll leave this here...

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/phil-atwill-crushing-it.html

Need huh...I'll leave this here...

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/phil-atwill-crushing-it.html

He was nearly off several times in that Vid, now if only he'd had a 160mm FS....

I prefer to be "overbiked" than "underbiked". Going to the Alps/Whistler for holidays? Then I would like to be on a 150-170mm FS. I wouldnt want my holiday and trips away to trail centres too compromised. They can also peddle up and do 30+ mile day rides no problem.

Might not be perfect for every situation, but then we'd have 10 bikes in the garage.

Not heard a bad word about the Patrol and Transition seem a very respectable company. FWIW I have a Banshee Rune and love riding that - the more I ride it, the better it seems to get!

tbh If you've the skills, a 100mm HT is overbiked for most places 🙂

I use to ride a 140mm HT in the Surrey Hills and it was a blast, but I reckon a slack 140mm (at the most) FS would be all you'll need.

I've had a Patrol since June and love it . I think it's perfect for where I ride which is mostly Guisborough and Hamsterley with regular trips to Scotland and the lake's. Compared to my previous bike's ( chameleon and pitch ) the patrol climb's better and descends like a dream. A great all rounder with a bias for downhill.

I've a spec camber and a kona process 153 and ride the surrey hills a lot. If i'm on the kona i have accept it's a pig, hard work, too slack to work on the flatter trails, too much hard work to maintain speed on the flatter trails, it's treated as my DH bike i can get back up the hill on, so only really works for pitch laps. On everything else, the shorter travel is so much more, faster, less work so i end up getting more riding.

If you've already a shorter travel bike, make your knew bike a more gravity based bike.

PS i've hit most gaps on my camber i've found in surrey hills (fly tipper, drum and bass, nirvana freeride area, leith gaps, milestone (rip), basically everything apart from darkness stepup and the long one on pitch), so is more than capable for jumping/gaps.

Though i do know some very strong/fit people with nomads/patrols/capras who seem to be happy on them on the flatter stuff.

I spent all this year riding an enduro with 180mm coil forks on it for everything except my commute. I dont see whats wrong with being overbiked if you are having fun

But i am having more fun on less travel.

The "you can't have too much bike" brigade neglect to acknowledge that what we have in this country to ride is generally more fun on a trail bike, the right bike for the job.

The most fun bike is the best bike for the job in my experience.

It'd probably be helpful at this point if the OP could comment on the likelihood of him hitting big gap jumps and drops.

If he wants a Transition maybe he should consider the Smuggler anyway?

Very low likelihood of getting airborne.

I like fast flowing trails but want something very comfortable. I ride a steel 29 inch hardtail (Cielo), which is very comfortable, but fancy something even more so.

If I want beating up, I'll take the Cielo, but as I get older I want something with a more forgiving ride. Some realy useful comments thanks.

I have the transition smuggler with a distinctly unenduro 115 mm rear travel and it's great for 99% of my riding, mostly tweed Valley and a week in the alps each year. Really progressive and surprisingly bottomless rear end, no wallowing, you do notice travel running out when it gets fast and very rough but I don't encounter that very often where I ride.

I'd ride both the patrol and scout if you're set on the wheel size, for me the slack head angle on the patrol would put me off a bit based on a ride on another bike with that angle.

I have a patrol, it's awesome. Use it for everything. I was going to get a scout but due to availability in early 2015, went for the patrol.

I don't regret it and is awesome downhill and pretty good going up. It's a good "do it all" bike.

Check out the pinkbike q and a with transition, they mention the patrol having a stronger frame than the scout. I think the tubes are slightly thicker.

No such thing as overbiked, buy what makes you happy and be a happy bunny.

I got a Patrol. Looked at the Scout too, it's probably the bike better suited to a lot of my riding and if I only had one bike, would have been the one I got. There is little between them in weight and climbing.

However, I also have a hardtail that I still like to ride a lot and for me, I prefer having bikes further apart as I feel I push my ability more on each.
Also found a lot of confidence on this year's Alpine holiday from the slackness and length of the Patrol, don't know how it would have compared to a Scout, but a lot better than the Heckler I had previously.
The Patrol is also massively rapid on my familiar local trails compared to anything else I've ridden and I just love the outright speed.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
No such thing as overbiked, buy what makes you happy and be a happy bunny.
POSTED 1 DAY AGO # REPORT-POST

Also, being local to the Surrey hills, I'd say a 160mm will be fine, it will allow you to get more out of the steeper trails. TBH, depending on your level, you could probably get down most of the trails on a hardtail. But as you'll obviously get down most trails quicker on a 160mm bike, why wouldn't you have one. Surprisingly a lot of the 160mm bikes pedal uphill just fine so really are becoming do it all bikes and therefore don't carry as much of a penalty uphill as you might think.

Scout = super trail bike
Patrol = super enduro bike

If you read the comments on that vimeo video posted before I asked a question about them both when I was trying to decide. Went with the Scout as it was perfect for 95% of my riding. Although I have put 150 on the front.

I am planing on getting a patrol for racing with.

Of course, get a demo of both of you can.

I'd get the big bike. Overbiked whatever, the patrol pedals well, you'll have trail modes on the suspension and it's poppy fun.

I'd say a 160mm will be fine, it will allow you to get more out of the steeper trails.

please correct me if I am wrong, I'm no expert around Surrey Hills but the steeper trails I've ridden weren't any rougher than the other trails so I don't see how the extra travel is going to help?

There are plenty shorter travel bikes with adequate geometry to allow confidence when descending steep trails.

Worth having a read here on the scout vs patrol debate

http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/scout-patrol-big-decision-whos-riden-both-955115.html

please correct me if I am wrong, I'm no expert around Surrey Hills but the steeper trails I've ridden weren't any rougher than the other trails so I don't see how the extra travel is going to help?

@gota I can dig out dozens of videos of people riding stuff which the vast majority on here would say is best ridden on a decent travel full suss. Yes of course with perfect technique you can ride a decent gap on a hardtail and with poor technique you can smash face first on a 160mm full suss.

[i]I'd get the big bike. Overbiked whatever, the patrol pedals well, you'll have trail modes on the suspension and it's poppy fun. [/i]

Dan - just one trail at somewhere like the Golfie has more descent (and certainly more steep/technical/'features') than pretty much the whole of the Surrey Hills.

Modern Enduro bikes are awesome nowadays.
If you get one and find it "steam rollers" the easy stuff then just ride it much faster through those parts to get your thrills. Loads of people ride 29ers and they don't complain about it smoothing out all the trails (itms their main selling point). We ride 160 travel bikes here and they just make you want to push yourself harder and faster.
And nowadays they pedal up hill really well and are pretty damn light as well.

Also I had a spin on a Transition Patrol a while ago and it was much better up and downhill than the Covert and not much heavier than a Bandit.

Tom KP.

They're so similar it just depends on how you prefer to ride the bike. My mates and I mostly ride in the SE, with away trips to Wales, the Alps etc. Most of us are on big slack 6" bikes. Some are hitting the big jumps and drops, some aren't.

Personally I'd rather have slacker geometry but a bit less travel, which is why I'm on a Banshee Spitfire (160F/140R and 65.5 deg HA). If you ride lighter then you may prefer a nippier bike, if you're stronger you may prefer a more stable bike.

I suggest, buy the bigger bike - it'll be Very Different to your hardtail. If you get the shorter-travel one, there's more of an overlap there and a compromise when you take your bike to the Alps.

@jairaj - I would say you don't buy/ride a 140+ travel bike in the SH as its particularly rough although such a bike does make some rooty trails and particularly corners faster which if they have a jump/drop after them you want to hit is important (@cheifgroove can post up his video of the cost of not exiting a rooty corner into a drop fast enough 😉 )

Here are some lads having fun in the SH, all these trails I ride on my BFe but I don't hit any of these bigger jumps / drops. Depends on what your ambitions and skills are, I cant see many on STW suggesting a HT is the right bke for this sport of fun for most of us.

@Gota not trying to be unreasonable, its the season of goodwill but for many people a 140-160 fs is the right choice for a trip to fhe sh and you can ride it xc if you choose,

Loads of people ride 29ers and they don't complain about it smoothing out all the trails (itms their main selling point).

I take it you've never ridden a 29er, they don't really have any kind of smoothing effect on anything bigger than roots and stones etc, there is no magic taking place, just a larger circumference rolling over the ground. It's not like magic suspension, 29er hardtail still transmits every root and bump to my tender botty,just keeps momentum over roots, holes etc a bit better than Diddy wheels

I'd have the Patrol if I was racing 'nduro to the max, the Scout if I wasn't.

The Patrol if I was after a good time, the Scout if I was after good times.

Where did this preconceived idea come from where fun is proportional to travel?

(someone whose riding is predominantly about fun but predominately rides "shorter travel")