TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

EVB- They dropped a hint to me that they might be working on some mtb endurance plans for the spring but failing that I'll be on sustained power build and then short power build in preparation for BCBR next year. I think with mtb though if you're climbing singletrack there will always be a need for quick bursts of power to clear tricky bits as well as more endurance stuff.

Quick question about a plan.

I completed Rubber Glove, a 20 minute test, on Friday and had a pretty disappointing result. After the test it suggested that I drop my FTP by 32w. I think it's probably down to both pacing and the fact that I've not done any turbo stuff for about 8 months.
TR suggest the following:

use the second workout of this week to nail down your highest sustainable power via 3x12-minute repeats. If you find that you can exceed your assessment's estimated FTP all 3 times, increase your profile's FTP accordingly.

So how would I alter my FTP if I were to exceed my assessment's FTP in this session? Should I just take the average over the 3 12 minute intervals and use that as my new FTP?

I would do the 20 minute test again, assuming that was your first attempt. There is a bit of a knack to doing them I find (I went off too hard on my first one and blew up).

Any recommendation for 2-3 mid week sessions to keep the legs fresh for a hard ride in wales on Sat?

I plan to start a proper training programme in Dec.

Look at an mtb plan and do the last week, as they are set up as a taper week ie short but intense sessions. Or just do any short session with a high intensity factor. Idea is to not fatigue but still push a bit.

8 min test last night and it was bob on where it was from last winter - quite pleased with that as I've had a bit of a disrupted year with chest infections, so thought it might be a deal lower.

My pacing is a bit ropey as it seems like I can't ride the first block hard - it's a grim effort to just hang on. I can take an axe to the second one, though.

I've done a couple of sessions now on the short course XC plan.

Knocked my FTP setting back from 250 to 240 as I was struggling to hold the power on the intervals.

Did Goddard last night (second week of SP mid vol 1). The efforts were fine but struggled with the individual leg training, I could just about manage at the first power level but not at the following two power levels.

@Garry_Lager I've found something similar when I do intervals - struggle with the first, not too bad on the second, fine for the next three or so then begin to struggle again as fatigue sets in.

My pacing is a bit ropey as it seems like I can't ride the first block hard - it's a grim effort to just hang on. I can take an axe to the second one, though.

That just about sums it up for me too! Did a 3x8 last night. Straight into the first after 20 mins of z2 and it was a right slog, second was ok, and third could push on a bit. First intervals are just always hard.

so I am hoping doing a proper turbo programme will maintain and improve gains made this year.
Aiming to increase pwr by at least 0.2 by March to 4.7, doubt I'll lose weight so more power needed !

rsvktm, missed this first time around. Looking to do pretty much the same thing. Want about 20 watts, big jump. Worked pretty hard last winter so not sure where it's going to come from! Hoping just a bit more consistency, bit more adaptation, staying healthy, and going into winter with better form might do it 😕

A five minute [img] [/img] for me tonight... woohoo 🙂

Going to do my first FTP test on Friday or sat as having a rest week after five cx race weeks on the trot so should be fresh enough to have a good result. I am thinking prob do 8minute test. So I essentially go as hard as I can for the 8mins and then it does a transfer to an hour FTP? I've arbitrarily set my FTP as 225 at the moment, but I normally do workouts at over 100%, not sure whether to ramp it up a bit

ferrals, 8 mins hard enough to make you think you're going to vomit, 10 mins of easy spinning, then another 8 minutes hard enough to actually vomit. If the bucket's not full you've not tried hard enough 🙂

I think it then does the sums to work out the average of the two efforts and sets the FTP to be 90% of that average.

Are you doing the Trainerroad test? If so it's 2x8 minutes after a warm up then average then 90%? of it. If you're above 100% for long periods I'd increase it a bit; if you're above for short periods but tiring it might be about right. As has been discussed previously there is a bit of an art to pacing and so the first few times you will probably start to hard or too soft. Last year my ftp went 264-278-285-300 over the summer and at least some of that was just practice.

mrblobby - Member
ferrals, 8 mins hard enough to make you think you're going to vomit, 10 mins of easy spinning, then another 8 minutes hard enough to actually vomit. If the bucket's not full you've not tried hard enough

You lightweight needing a bucket, on Sunday's race I was swallowing my own vomit by lap 3!

Yeah it's the trainer road test. I've been putting it up by about 10% and even that's been seeming easy - though before starting trainerroad my training approach has been hard as I can for as long as I can so when I'm not doing that it seems odd.

Just did the 8min test for the first time. Didn't quite get the intervals right and ended up pushing hard the final 2 mins, got close to puking....:)

Result 266 based on kickr, stravas estimate based on my last weeks 6 weeks power data was 264 based on stages. Not a bad starting point.

Watts/kg would be more meaningful.

3.69w/kg

Is anyone using one of the new Elite Volano trainers with TrainerRoad who can share the settings they are using? It does not show up in the list of Elite trainers for virtual power etc. I am new to both trainers and TrainerRoad so struggling with setup.

I'm consciously avoiding w/kg on this thread as I like the fact that it's not competitive... for all you know I could be 120kg 😀

It's still not an absolute indicator. Mine via TR fairly low for someone whose racing regularly with decent results in class, but I can't hand on to a cat 4 pack for toffee yet put out higher average watts during club rides. For example, my recent bodged calculations result in the fact I might be as much as 40w over my TR FTP away from the mancave.

You have to remember to account for the static nature, temps, setup / resistance etc that varys between your setup and outside. Also, my physiology means I'm far better at long sub FTP efforts than I am at vo2 Max, so I've reached a point where the 8 min test is sub-beneficial to my real FTP.

I know some of that sounds just wrong but I can't work it out if it is.

Sounds right. It's more about having an appropriate power profile for your discipline (and weight and drag and whatever else is relevant.) 60MP (or FTP) is a bit of an artificial number, especially on a turbo.

TR does show a sort of power profile. Would be an interesting if they used that to scale the workouts, rather than just base everything off FTP. E.g. if you're a really strong sprinter, then some of the short busty intervals just based on a percentage of FTP may not be hard enough, whereas for an endurance rider with a flat power profile they may be too hard.

They do have the Coggan profile test on there. I did that and although it suprised me a bit I used the resulting profile on XC strategy this year and it worked. Turns out I'm almost perfectly profile for XC & XC endurance, and disastrously profiled for Crits. We know that to be true, so hence I'm now not banging on the wrong door.

So it is accurate on terms of the overall profile and we know the plans work to raise out FTP and certainly in my case my tolerance levels. But what we are saying here is that use your TR ftp on the TR setup,

Turns out I'm almost perfectly profile for XC & XC endurance, and disastrously profiled for Crits.

Because that is where your training is focused? Long XC rides, long club rides, etc.

I did that and although it suprised me a bit I used the resulting profile on XC strategy this year and it worked.

Interesting that. What did you do?

Kryton57 - Where do you find the suggested Power Profle for XC racing? All I can see is World Champ, World Class, Exceptional, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Moderate and Fair

Gazhurst... http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling

Was also reading this the other evening which is quite interesting... http://www.rideabout.co/how-to-prepare-train-for-xc-racing/

Lol. Gazhurst - you know we race together right? And for that reason - MrBlobby - I'm not putting my new XC race strenghts & weaknesses up here, Gaz is one of my 2016 target riders 😉

Gaz - I'm referring to the "H.A. & A.C. Power Profile Test" workout in Trainerroad. If you perform that and compare your results with the categorised summaries in thier "Training with Power" book, it gives you a profile of the type of rider you are, strengths, weaknesses and what type of events you should be targeting.

I did this and changed my race strategy from mid-year and started seeing better results based on the fact I wasn't flogging myself to death in the wrong places.

Of course, you can choose to do that, train your weaknesses etc interpret it how you like... a lot of people "know" what to do - I needed to be told and it worked for me.

Edit: in a bizarre twist I realised youd asked me a different question Gaz and I was just about to list the same website MrBlobby pointed to up there ^^ Theres another I found I'll try to find it...

Got a second Honeywell fan recently and last night attached it to the roof of the garage so it fires down onto my back whilst riding - very effective - was a bit too cold before I warmed up.

Do we????? Do you win??? Everyone else does when they race me 😯

Lol, no but I'm not far behind you. I'm sure I've got you right -KTM at MSG & Beastway this year?

Yeah thats me....what do you ride?

Yeah thats me....what do you ride?

What does he ride?! There seems to be a daily thread on that subject 🙂

I look at all these sources and at my Allen and Coggan book and then go out and do 4 months of Z2 followed by 2 months of intervals plus some technical XC and some long rides. Maybe I should start doing some of these complicated workouts.

Some interesting observations there Kryton!

I'll have to have a quick google for "Andrew Coggan’s Rider Abilities Profile"

I've ridden a couple of the new Sufferfest films at my guesstimate FTP after a summer away from hard sessions so I'm starting to get a feel for it again.

Probably give Rubber Glove a bash at the weekend so I can get a "real" FTP figure to work from.

Gaz - Anthem 29 LP shirt - we talked briefly after we both bailed at Ickworth. I'm not in your category so no need to be nervous until you turn 40 / enter Vets 😀

'Chef - I'm not a coach, its just that when I found out which profile I fell into and raced accordingly suddenly I was top finishing top 10 locally instead of 13/14/15. It was all about where and how I applied my effort. I was also able to pick out riders and know where in the race I would be able to pass, rather than trying exhaustively in the heat of the moment.

Importantly, as I suspect we all know raising FTP helps across the board.

Importantly, as I suspect we all know raising FTP helps across the board.

Can do, unless it's at the expense of something more important.

I look at all these sources and at my Allen and Coggan book and then go out and do 4 months of Z2 followed by 2 months of intervals plus some technical XC and some long rides. Maybe I should start doing some of these complicated workouts.

"Complicated workouts", they're all variations on pretty basic themes just to keep things interesting on the turbo 🙂

Gaz - Anthem 29 LP shirt - we talked briefly after we both bailed at Ickworth. I'm not in your category so no need to be nervous until you turn 40 / enter Vets

Ah I remember...well, to fuel your target, I go into Vets as of the 1st January 😥

mrblobby - Member

Gazhurst... http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling

Was also reading this the other evening which is quite interesting... http://www.rideabout.co/how-to-prepare-train-for-xc-racing/

I think the answer is Sweet Spot Base vol 1, but after my first year on a road bike, I am realising that my sprint could be better and also improve my endurance riding at tempo.

I started Sweet Spot Base 1 low volume in the spring, but did not complete it as I did not religiously follow the plan due to family life, and switched to riding outdoors and joined my local club when the weather improved.

My normal garage fix is TrainerRoad mixed with SF Angels, AVDP or Downward Spiral when I really want to test myself.

Is it worth still mixing these videos up, try something new for a change or just work through and complete Sweet Spot Base this time? I am still getting one road session in per week, 25 or 60 miles depending if it is an evening or weekend ride.

Appreciate your thoughts

Ah I remember...well, to fuel your target, I go into Vets as of the 1st January

The hardest category of course... 8) You were/are a fair bit quicker than me but I'm hoping not to be beset with virus this winter - I had December and Feb off the bike last winter - and improve up to March. The only reason I said I was aiming at was you have a fairly obvious bike.

According to the numbers I'm fitter today than the day of the first MSG this year, so there is hope as I build toward March - see you there!

And back to TR - just completed Donner, pleased to have managed the whole of the last interval on the drops with elbows tucked - get in!

Just done Goddard using Kickr in erg mode with a stages recording on a separate device. Top graph shows Stages and bottom Kickr. Ave pwr Stages 245, Kickr 242. Hadn't realised Goddard included single leg drills so didn't do them as obviously this would have skewed the figures massively.
More than happy with carrying on using just the Kickr after seeing this, what this experiment has shown me that while the Kickr being reactive is slower to show peaks and troughs in comparison to the Stages it doesn't really affect the overall result. The spikes in the last two intervals are down to a big jump in cadence and the Kickr resistance catching up.
Did this after once again reading about Kickr misreading issues, I seem to have a good one 🙂

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FTP test for me on Tuesday next week.

First one since acquiring my new Kickr. As far as erg mode goes, will this effect the 20 minute test workout? Or will it be automatically disabled?

It'll be automatically disabled for the 20 minute bit, but on for the warm up etc. (Assuming you are using TrainerRoad.)

Ah thats good to know thank you.

I like to do my own warm up before the 20 mins instead so I guess i'll just dissable it for that particular workout.

Will be interesting to compare my results to my regular 'dumb@ trainer compared to the kickr.

In that case I think you can just (all from within TrainerRoad) set the Kickr to be in resistance mode for the whole workout. Alternatively you could do what you like to warm up, then start the TR workout, and skip to just before the 20 minute test period (I think you just click on that time point on the desktop app at least). I'm not 100% sure that it would calculate and update your FTP if you've only partially completed the workout, but I imagine it probably would. You could always check with TR support, or else you could calculate it yourself from the recorded data, and manually update in TR later, so you won't 'lose' the result of your effort whatever happens!

rsvktm, interesting data there. Was that running in erg mode? How does the NP compare with the Stages?

I did wonder if the kickr was just reporting power based some speed equation or actually measuring it using strain gauges. The smoothness and lack of peaks when accelerating makes it look like it's doing the former, but then the dips at the end of the interval looks more like the latter.