I'm concerned about starting my season without miles in my legs
I haz miles but no intervals.
You have a very busy season? Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs.
Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs
Interesting. I guess quite a different skill/fitness-set from pro peleton to xc mtb though?
I've tried to be disciplined but to be honest its all been a bit all over the shop with racing cx very w/e till Nov., then being busy, then hurting myself and not iding much till mid dec. With the weather being so rank I'm struggling to get a handle on how well I'm riding despit having lots of turbo hours. Every time I go out its been with loads of layers, overshoes etc. Plus I've had a lot of training in my legs since christmas. Looking forward to next sunday, rest week next week, got a sports massage booked for Thurs eve, then next sunday will head up to Afan or Brechfa (assuming weater reasonable) and see how I fit with PB's etc on strava. not far off top ten on a few of the climbs so if I could crack into that would be a good marker.
Oh really? In which case I'm in pretty advanced training then 😀
Yes busy - one monthly XCO Reg A from March - Sept, Once weekly XCO Reg C from May -July, Mountain Mayhem and the Bonty 24/12. Thats 19 races, 17 short and 2 24's.
And every other weekend I'll be doing one of these:
how well I'm riding despit having lots of turbo hours.
Same. I'm reluctant to lose a good set of intervals for a slog in the mud/rain with little training benefit. And worse, I've change to 1x11 ond Oval and haven't ridden that yet. I'm thinking of entering the G8 Winter series race at Hadleigh on 21.2 just for a practise session.
And even worse, I realised I've been 18 months on my oem reaer shock without a service so need to get it removed this weekend and serviced so its back by the 21st.... aaaargh
^ You may be near me (Wallingford) - I have a QR 26" wheel with a trainer tyre if you want?
Yep - not far (Headington). Thanks, that's very kind. Wiggle have just been (well, their stooge anyway) so I'm all set. It's quite nice to see my Hummer again actually, though I would have preferred happier circumstances. Assuming I can get the tyre on (quite a chunky rim) then I'll try and have a spin this evening.
I applaud your ability to get on with things Gray, not sure I'd be so chipper in your situation, well done that man!
Ta! Can't really complain though - it was painful at first (well, it was actually insane for a bit), but since then my feelings towards the whole thing have been essentially "This could have been SO much worse - I'm going to be OK, it's just going to take a little while." Things like missing the Etape, a skiing holiday, broken bike, etc etc don't seem like such a big deal when I think for a second about how it could have turned out.
^^Fantastic mindset.
Did Kaweah last night (5x10min at 98% FTP with 5 minute breaks). Looks very innocuous but I found it surprisingly tough on the legs as 3rd session in 3 days. Doing a bit of cramming of the program currently as I've got a long weekend skiing coming up.
Turbo today is looking inevitable.
Well with a big dose of MTFU I actually went outside and rode the bike. Really enjoyed it despite the wind and rain. (Proof [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/486469695 ]here[/url]!)
Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs
I read a TrainingPeaks or Friel article explaining that and why it works for them. What they actually do is work on the intense stuff during the off season, then as they get closer to racing it might look like they are doing a lot more base, but what they're actually doing is making their training more like racing, which in most part is pootling along for hundreds of miles in a peloton for weeks at a time.
Edit... [url= http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/reverse-periodization.html ]this article[/url].
^^Fantastic mindset.
Second that. Keep it up! 🙂
making their training more like racing,
Interesting. We had session with Huw Williams this week (yes that one). His Training philosophy - and he had a graphic to show the zones 95% or racers race in - is exactly the same.
His go to phrase is "You're either training to race, or just riding you bike".
He cited examples of Hoy falling off rollers & turbos at the of sessions he was so wasted. I put this to the test in my last two TR session, by following the plans but riding the last interval / part of the interval to exhaustion.
I'll let you know if I start winning things 😉
Has anyone had any issues with TR this evening? Not long finished an hours session (Muir) however TR has only saved the first 40 mins of the session. little frustrating!
I guess this has already been covered, but has anyone got any tips for preventing ANT+ dropouts between trainer and iOS device? I've got the Wahoo Ant adaptor for my iPhone connected with a legit Apple 30-pin to Lightning adapter (the long cable version), but today's Bondcliff session dropped out loads. When it happens I need to unplug the adaptor and plug it back in. On one occasion 20 minutes into the workout it even crashed TrainerRoad and I needed to start again (no way of skipping ahead in the workout either which is rubbish).
Balls to it, the weather blues have defeated me, I'm turboing not outside riding. Can't face doing intervals in the pissing rain and gales.
Mrblobby, just requested follow on Strava.
+2.5% FTP today vs 20 min test. A good gain in 5 weeks.
Good job kryton57 hoping for similar next week
Mary Austin, wasn't as brutal as I was expecting, makes me wonder if my FTP is still too low, though heart rate was around 166 though which from memory is about the threshold (according to strava anyway).
Anybody going for the Tour of Sufferlandria this year - just back from work and sat here in two minds.
ferrals - Member
Mary Austin, wasn't as brutal as I was expectingPOSTED 2 HOURS AGO #
I rescind my previous comment. Can barely get off the sofa! Didn't seem awful at the time but it's taken it out of me!
Just realised that ToS is no longer on Trainerroad. I can see why they have done it but from my perspective its a mistake. Don't think I'll bother if I'm not going to get my special little badge at the end.
Just finished Golgotha, quite an aptly named session to avoid the rain and mirk.
Well no amount of MTFU was going to get me out there today. Bad enough walking the dog.
Been tempted by ToS in the past but it's a pretty serious undertaking, a major chunk of TSS. Doesn't really fit in with the plan for me. Curious not to have trainerroad supporting it.
Just finished Golgotha
Looks like a good session that. Worth bookmarking. Might be needing it tomorrow if the weather is still grim.
I'm on the Sustained Build Plan which has some long sessions like that though the shorter (1hr) ones can be tough as the efforts are fairly long and based around your FTP 😳 It's meant to be Koip tomorrow but 150mins of zone 2 type riding on the turbo is a bit much so I might risk getting out for a steady road ride and also do a shorter Threshold or VO2Max session like Morgan 45 - https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/115311-morgan-45
Very nasty weather here today too. Don't blame anyone for not getting out! Got the turbo set up this evening and had a quick go. First time I've turned pedals for a month! Turns out the back brace is a bit of a pain. Top of my legs bump it, and it also constrains my chest on max inhalation too. Will have a proper go tomorrow and see if I can make it a bit better. Also got a bit dizzy. Bah. Position wasn't too uncomfortable though, and the brace will be off in 3 weeks so bodes quite well for the near future!
Good work there gray. Impressive stuff!
Second week of 800TSS Zone 2 completed. Barely able to get up a flight of stairs.
Pretty heavy load there adsh! My legs felt a bit like that at the end of Jan so last week was an easy one. Legs felt great on 50 miles of z2/z3 yesterday 🙂
Yes and I'm feeling it to the extent I'm not sure week 3 is possible 😥 Moving from turbo to 3x long outside rides may help.
Crap.
Either I overchieved on my 20min test Saturday, or the slight cold symptoms I have affected me, or only 4h sleep did, or maybe all three, but I struggled on the 4th and 5th interval of Red Lake ( 5 x 5 @ 108%). Need some time to gather myself and go again but I was wobbling everywhere on the very last minute.
Ouch!
Hmmm...
I put this to the test in my last two TR session, by following the plans but riding the last interval / part of the interval to exhaustion.
Lol - I made it a hard week last week.
But what does one do, cruise through the sessions having a "good" workout, or use up the last of the reserves on the last few intervals to really batter myself?
BC says the latter, TR says its more important to complete the intervals.
2 rest now due to work travel, lets see what Thursday brings, and see if consistent failings mean I need to lower my FTP a bit.
But what does one do, cruise through the sessions having a "good" workout, or use up the last of the reserves on the last few intervals to really batter myself?
Think it depends on what you are trying to achieve. There are times when you want to empty the tank, other times you want to apply a specific load. I'd say, as part of a bigger plan, in Feb, it's probably the latter.
If you're doing a bunch of intervals that are meant to be hard and you finish it at the prescribed power and still feel pretty fresh then maybe make a note of that and bump it up a percent or two next time. There's probably more benefit in making all the intervals a bit harder than just making the last one super hard (unless that is what you are specifically working on I guess.)
Fair point.
I start racing/TTing March 6th, so part of what I'm doing is going through some mental torture deliberately.
As I say, I'll try Thursday's at the FTP TR told me, to see if its just tiredness. The fact my penultimate interval was 2min on, 1min off, and 2min to finish then my last interval was 1 minute on, 2 off then 2 on to finish means the strength is there if not the depth...
According to the Coggan book your intervals should be until there is significant degradation in power. If you can't adjust the number of intervals on TR then you need to work backwards and pace your power output such that the last set is only just achievable or borderline isn't.
Any thoughts on a plan (TR or self devised) to get back to fitness quickly.
background: i had a good year last year and then structured training tailed off oct/nov. I've been commuting and social riding constantly (but power output noticeably down) and now i've just had two weeks (and counting) off the bike due to facial surgery. I think i'm up to turbo again - just concerned about sweating too much into my wound.
I'm thinking a combo of pyramidal, kaiser and moving onto katahdin should see me right.
According to the Coggan book your intervals should be until there is significant degradation in power. If you can't adjust the number of intervals on TR then you need to work backwards and pace your power output such that the last set is only just achievable or borderline isn't.
Probably if you are wanting to go to that depth. E.g. 2x20 @ FTP is a popular one, but you shouldn't be completing the second 20 min thinking it's just about achievable, as that should be at your hour power.
More often you probably want to make it hard but reasonably achievable, especially if you're training most days. I'd not want to do the above day in day out!
One of the reasons Torq reckon you should only do two intervals sessions per week!
Yes I think I was over that measure this time, but then vo2max is not my strength either. I probably should have knocked the last 2 down 3% to 105 and completed them in hindsite. Note the first 3 were fine. Difficult, not overly so though.
I only rode 90k last week - all on the Turbo :/
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Lol, excellent Gray, well done.
Ok, Do I need a Inforcrank powermeter on my Road/first year* Time trial bike? I've be offered on at trade.
Easier to swap bikes for Turbo work so I can use the aero position on longer sessions, power read out during TT's...?
Because its so swappable, if TT's go well I'll be buying a Propel to replace Bianchi next year...
Power meters are great. Infocrank is meant to be very good... but expensive. If you can get one at trade then can't see why not.
Do have a slight downside in it being part of the crank, so your crank length is fixed. And that might be something you want to play with if you get into time trialling.
Also swapping, even if it's just the crank, is still a bit of a faff and when I did have to swap I'd just end up riding whichever bike the power meter was on, which invariably was the turbo, which was to the detriment of road riding.
if TT's go well I'll be buying a Propel to replace Bianchi next year...
If TT's go well you won't be wanting a Propel.
I have a power tap on the winter / turbo hike so they'd be no need for constant crank swapping.
What's wrong with Propels? I need a dual duty aero road bike, I can't really go to 3 road bikes, so the other move is to sells the defy for an Enigma Ecriox ST
Nothing wrong with the Propel, but I guess it's a bit like saying if the XC racing goes well then I'll be buying one of them Enduro bikes to race on next season.
If you want a starter TT bike I might have a PX Stealth frame (medium/white) and some Zipp Vuka alu bars available in a few weeks time if you're interested. I do you good price 🙂
I need a 56, and more cash if I'm to lay £750 on a power meter/praxis
I need a 56
I'm 6ft, fairly long limbed. Fits me. Just saying, as an option 🙂
Oh god, help...
^ and lo he said unto thee post on STW 'which aero road bike for TT - warning indecisive content'.
Lol!
It's not happening. I'm using my road bike wth clip ons this year to see if I like it before I spend too much.
Although I'm still not sure about stumping up that much for the Infocranks - even though my rings, cassette and chain are 3 years old and the BB30 needs replacing (again) so they are due renewal I guess...
Was meant to do Pettit https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/21542-pettit tonight but didn't really fancy 60 minutes of 60-75% of FTP so did Wheeler https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1392-wheeler instead. That was hard work as I've not done any VO2Max work since starting the Sustained Power Build.
I'm supposed to be doing Pettit tomorrow, but starting to feel feverish so might sack it off if I feel rank in the morning. I don't Ming the steady, low intensity rides, just watch to an plough through it, rarely bother with the optional drills.
Involuntary rest day tomorrow. 2 laps of Swinley today and barely able to manage Z2. Only 4 days till the end of base 😀
Same for me , two more rides of trad base and it's done . Time to build (or wilt) .
Outdoors today 🙂
Hard work though, one of those "it never gets easier, you just go faster" rides.
Involuntary rest day...
Been up at 5am every day away from home and now I'll be back late. Sod all done this week then. 😐
Kephart tonight. Still all feels a little too easy, so in the last interval I upped the intensity by 5%. That was fine, so for the next week I'm increasing my FTP by 5% and I'll see how it goes. The last test probably did give a result that was a little on the low side.
An article over at Training Peaks about indoor and outdoor FTP and why they might be different. Nothing new really but quite relevant to this thread...
For gods sake. Option of an 80k ride tomorrow, I'm dog tired and the forecast is 4 degrees and light rain all day.
Just can't get the miles in, Sigh.
Thing is do you actually need miles? If you were doing traditional base obviously you would but as you're obviously time crunched why stress about it.
Have a lie in, rest up, get some browny points and do one quality interval session to complete exhaustion - job done.
You can top up base miles with 'training camps' mid season.
PS I'm feeling smug as I only have 250TSS to go for my 3rd and final week of 800TSS base.
Anyone else test quite differently on the MTB to the road bike?
Having just come out of CX season in reasonable shape, i have just switched the turbo setup onto the MTB in prep for the XC season.
First test on the MTB and my ftp is quite a bit lower. Not sure if its just the setup or what. I calibrated beforehand, obviously the gears are different etc.but I did find it hard going. HR was higher than on the road bike.
Anyone else see the same or is it just a setup thing you think?
Thing is do you actually need miles? If you were doing traditional base obviously you would but as you're obviously time crunched why stress about it.
Well yes, and I've done so much more than last year with my winter chest infections. But I feel like a gym bunny/man who is only good for an hour.
My last club ride a few weeks ago was abysmal (got dropped on the first big climb although I think I was carrying some kind of illness), so I want to go out and prove can still ride for a few hours at a time, and have some mental time-out with the inclusive banter.
I realise of course this is what Turbo's are for and the session tomorrow would be [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/20717-buckhorn ]Buckhorn[/url], so a decent ride in itself.
@wonkey_donkey This link> http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/adjusting-your-functional-threshold-power-for-indoor-riding
was posted by MrBlobby just a few posts ago
@wonkey_donkey what kind of set up are you running? Virtual power, power meter, or electronic trainer? There definitely could be some variance coming just from your setup, or it may be that you are just more used to the fit/feel of the road bike, in which case just riding your mtb more should bring those numbers back up.
@trevorderuise running an electronic - actually think it was a combination of what you said. Think when it switched from erg mode to resistance it was on some daft 90% resistance setting 😯
Also a bit of feel/fit like you say. Been back on it again today and felt much better. I'll retest again next week and see how it goes that time.
I fell out of love a bit with the turbo over the last year and let my TR subscription lapse. However, I've definitely noticed a drop in fitness and endurance (especially my uphill speed) despite spending a reasonable amount of time on the bike over the last 12 months (although mainly commuting). So I'm going to reactivate TR and try to improve things a little. Does anyone happen to have a referral code or free month they'd be willing to email me (in profile)? Thanks!
I do. Give me an hour to get home and I'll refer you.
Ah. Can't do legolam TR spots you been a member before, sorry.
Ah well, worth a shot! Thanks for trying
Base done - no doubt I'll be mourning it when I'm feeling sick mid interval soon but as it stands now I'm enjoying my celebratory glass of vino!
Base done here too! Good work adsh we should cheer each other on. How you feeling? Much improvement ? I felt like I was getting nowhere really, but now suddenly feel decent. We shall see.....
Base done
Good work! Mighty amount of TSS there too.
Just finished a slightly tweaked [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/103929-kennedy-peak-1 ]Kennedy Peak + 1[/url] here. Should have gone out but it was cold and dark and I couldn't be arsed, watched the Martian on iTunes to kill the time. My arse hurts.
I had every intention of going out on the road for an hour or 3 yesterday but I was going to be riding alone and I rapidly started to lose the motivation.
I went and bought a direct drive turbo instead and thougt I'd do Mount Cross for 3 hrs. I didnt get the Misuro sensor though so the turbo wouldnt read the virtual power. Never mind I thought, I'll do it on HR and feel....after an hour and 20, I was bored shitless and jacked it!!!!
Finished sweet spot base mid volume 2 as well, though the rest week rides I've managed to do all outside which is nice.
Mix of build and speciality for me now. Going to do first week of short poer build this week. I'm wondering about whether switching the 8 min test and white around as I'll just do a real world ride in place of white and the weather looks better on Tuesday! Do you reckon this will be ok? Don't think an hour and a half of real world riding the day before wouegld affect my ftp test too much? More concerned about doing grassy ridge the day after doing FTP test. Grassy ridge and white have teh same TSS but I kind of think the vo2 max will be less appropriate the day after an FTP test.
Not sure if this is a good price or not, but in case anyone is interested, Merlin have the Tacx Neo for £959.
My first time on Traineroad this weekend (this thread inspired me) I went straight into the PowerBuild - did the 8 minute test on Sat and Grassy Ridge on Sun - the last block was tough but manageable. Obviously my FTP could be a out slightly as it was my first test but it did match up to tests I'd done before. Spent the winter outside and this is a revelation, not sure why I didn't try this sooner. Oh well, lesson learned.
Cheers @howsyourdad and @mrblobby. I am completely wrecked - couldn't manage Z2 for the end of y'days ride. Feb was always going to be tough but I had to make it doubly so due to a couple of unscheduled rest weeks in Nov and Dec.
Now I'm feeling bored.
Todays pain plan is an FTP test for the start of the short power build block.
I ruddy hate these things.
Ugh all set to start build phase with an 8 minute test , have woken up with a sore throat and the sniffles. What to do?
@howsyourdad1 A tricky one - usually I'd subscribe to the "In your head - go ahead, in your chest - give it a rest" philosophy but the FTP tests are pretty hard on the body. See how you are this evening, if you are still rough then give things a miss, a day or two's rest isn't going to affect your fitness that much.
I was meant to be doing that too, but bad insomnia makes me think I'll get a poor result. Will prob give it a crack and ignore if reading goes down.
Yes that was my thinking, if it was anything but an ftp test I'd go ahead .yeah it might weaken my immune system that little bit more for the sniffle to really take hold . Will probably skip it today . Shame as I have been psychologically preparing myself for it , got a couple of early nights , no booze etc ... Perhaps thatl is what brought on my cold!
Despite feeling knackered I did mine at lunch. Set the effort to 105% and managed to just exceed that so upped FTP from a self-upped 310 (originally 307) to 322. I don't believe the numbers at all but I'm pleased with the relative improvement over 6 weeks. LTHR is 159 according to T.R. Strava has it as 166 based on some metric. I think I've asked this before, but is tr a little low? I want to use it for real world outside training so want to get it right. I can spend a whole cx race above that threshold value which I thought would be impossible?
@ferrals You can't directly compare indoor with outdoor FTP, they'll nearly always be different, typically the indoor figure will be lower. Mrblobby posted a link on this thread explaining why, might be a page or two back now.
Use the TR value for TR sessions. If you want an outdoor figure then you'll need to do a test with a powermeter outdoors.